Why did Obama just send our oldest active duty warship to the Persian gulf?

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Speeders R Murderers, Jan 22, 2012.

  1. Speeders R Murderers

    Speeders R Murderers Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2010
    Messages:
    4,889
    Likes Received:
    69
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Michael Rivero of whatreallyhappened.com explains why---

    With the collapse of the oil embargo to force Iran into a confrontation over the Straight of Hormuz, the US and Israel are looking for another way to get the long-sought war with Iran started, and more to the point, need to make it look like Iran is starting hostilities in order to make it politically more difficult for Russia and China to support Iran.

    Now, recall that Israel has a past history of attacking US warships and framing others to trick the US into attacks on Israel's enemies, with the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty (initially blamed on Egypt) as the most well-known example.

    So here we have the USS Enterprise, the oldest carrier in the fleet, on her last legs, scheduled to be decommissioned next year. Her name is well known, in part because of the Star Trek TV series. Decommissioning a nuclear aircraft carrier is a very expensive process. USS Enterprise is powered by 8 nuclear reactors, all of which must be disposed of as nuclear waste material along with all the associated machinery. The US Navy would save a great deal of money, more than the scrap worth of the steel, if USS Enterprise were to be sunk in the Persian Gulf, where the radioactive mess is someone else's problem to deal with.

    So, why send an ancient ship at the end of her useful life into harms way? The same reason Franklin Roosevelt moved a bunch of obsolete warships from San Diego to Pearl Harbor, while the newer carriers and warships were well away from Hawaii on December 7th, 1941.

    Israel has 3 Dolphin submarines, given to her by Germany. They have been seen transiting the Suez Canal in the past, and could well be operating in the Gulf of Oman, even the Persian Gulf by now, lying in wait for a used-up and obsolete warship, more useful as a sacrificial lamb than an actual weapon, a ship with American sailors, to be attacked as Israel attacked the USS Liberty, then to be blamed on the designated target, Iran, by a compliant media.
     
  2. Lunchboxxy

    Lunchboxxy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2010
    Messages:
    6,732
    Likes Received:
    101
    Trophy Points:
    63
    To tell Iran to (*)(*)(*)(*) off, obviously.



    Also, I wasn't aware that Israel had a vagina.
     
  3. Speeders R Murderers

    Speeders R Murderers Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2010
    Messages:
    4,889
    Likes Received:
    69
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Get help please.
     
  4. NotDependant

    NotDependant New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2011
    Messages:
    206
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Roosevelt sent a Navy Fleet to Pearl Harbor to enter the war.....wow someone knows their history.
     
  5. Speeders R Murderers

    Speeders R Murderers Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2010
    Messages:
    4,889
    Likes Received:
    69
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Many people have been amazed at our good luck that none of the all-important carriers were at PH that day. FDR knew the japs were coming.
     
  6. Someone

    Someone New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    Messages:
    7,780
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Obama ordered the USS Constitution into the Persian Gulf? How odd. That's seriously retro! :twisted:
     
    mikezila and (deleted member) like this.
  7. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    30,071
    Likes Received:
    1,204
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Gettin' ready for the big showdown...
    :fart:
    British, French ships join US carrier in Strait of Hormuz
    Jan 23, 2012: British and French ships joined a US carrier group in a six-strong flotilla of warships which passed through the sensitive Strait of Hormuz, Britain's Ministry of Defence said Sunday.
     
  8. My Fing ID

    My Fing ID Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Messages:
    12,225
    Likes Received:
    128
    Trophy Points:
    63
    She's ready to hunt pirates!

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Someone

    Someone New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    Messages:
    7,780
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Those (*)(*)(*)(*)ed pirates! They've always been a problem in that part of the world!
     
  10. kenrichaed

    kenrichaed Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2011
    Messages:
    8,539
    Likes Received:
    128
    Trophy Points:
    0
    “That’s the reason we maintain a presence in the Middle East,” AP cited US Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, as saying in a speech to about 1,700 sailors aboard the USS Enterprise. “We want them to know that we are fully prepared to deal with any contingency and it’s better for them to try to deal with us through diplomacy.”

    http://rt.com/news/aircraft-carrier-hormuz-iran-391/

    Basically they want two carrier groups there since Iran is acting up. It's a full battlegroup which can easily handle any subs Iran throws at it, which would be suicide. The Enterprise is fully functional so this conspiracy holds no bases in fact whatsoever.
     
  11. Speeders R Murderers

    Speeders R Murderers Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2010
    Messages:
    4,889
    Likes Received:
    69
    Trophy Points:
    0
    HAHAHA. That's the american military for you - We're gonna holocaust your country to force you to use diplomacy. America is run by psychopathic mass-murderers.
     
  12. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    11,132
    Likes Received:
    4,899
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No it's called letting your enemies know that misbehaving will result in getting your ass kicked.

    All Iran has to do is stop making nukes, they are doing this to themselves. We haven't dropped the hammer on them yet, we are trying to do this through diplomacy and non violence. Some people just don't seem to understand anything but violence. Ahmadenajad is one of those people.
     
  13. Someone

    Someone New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    Messages:
    7,780
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yeah, except our definition of "misbehaving" includes countries acting like independent countries, making their own decisions, etc.

    All Iran has to do is cede sovereignty to the United States... Really, it's their business whether they want to develop a nuclear weapon or not. They're an independent country, after all. The NPT had no teeth to justify a military response to violations of it.
     
  14. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2008
    Messages:
    27,756
    Likes Received:
    3,715
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If this prediction comes true, will you pick my lotto numbers?
     
  15. Jarlaxle

    Jarlaxle Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2010
    Messages:
    8,939
    Likes Received:
    461
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    The US Navy had 22 battleships on 12/7/41...only six (the North Carolina & South Dakota classes) were modern. (The newest pre-North Carolina was the Colorado class, laid down in 1921.) Compared to the sixteen old battleships, the Navy had exactly SIX carriers. (By 1941, CV1, USS Langley had been redesignated an aircraft transport.) One of those (CV4, USS Ranger) did not have the speed, size, or range for Pacific duty. Another, Hornet, was brand new and still shaking down. So, for every carrier suited for duty in the Pacific, there were more than five battleships. As such, the carriers were BUSY.

    On 12/7/41...
    Wasp was anchored off Newfoundland, having just returned from ferrying planes to Iceland.
    Lexington was ferrying Marine fighters to Midway.
    Saratoga had just gotten out of drydock at Bremerton, WA, and had just steamed from there to San Diego harbor when the Japanese attacked.
    Hornet was just out of the yard at Newport News (commissioned 10/20/41) and still shaking down.
    Yorktown had only put into Norfolk on December 2 after a neutrality patrol.

    Only Enterprise was near the action...she was returning from delivering VMF-211 to Wake Island, and fortunately, arrived just after the Japanese attack. She drew first blood against the Japanese Navy: her aircraft sank I-71, a Japanese submarine, on December 10th.
     
  16. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    11,132
    Likes Received:
    4,899
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Iran is free to make their own decisions, they have been a brutal dictator led nation for years and we didn't care. It's when they start threatening US allies and interests that they become a problem. Iran is a terrorist cesspool and their government is way too radical to have a weapon as powerful as a nuclear bomb.

    It's this little thing called making sure you keep your enemies at bay. When you have bigger guns you want to make sure your enemy doesn't get bigger guns to fight you. Iran is easier to deal with in their current state both diplomatically and militarily. Them getting nukes would elevate them to a more level playing field, a status that the radicals in the Iranian government shouldn't have.



    No, its their business if they want to kill their own people by the thousands, rule however they like, etc within their OWN country. When they become a threat to other people, especially the US, our allies, and our interests, then its no longer just their business.

    This is how diplomacy works in the real world. The US and its allies are more powerful than you, so diplomacy is in our favor. If you want us to leave you alone then meet our demands, we don't meet theirs. Sometimes its easier to swallow your pride and just say OK. Choose to keep being defiant and threatening people then they will be dealt with accordingly. Either way they aren't getting nukes, and "fair" has nothing to do with it.

    In the grand scheme of things you're right it isn't "fair" that we are telling Iran what they can and can't do. But the real world isn't fair.
     
  17. SFJEFF

    SFJEFF New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2010
    Messages:
    30,682
    Likes Received:
    256
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Why am i not shocked that you not only consider American soldiers murderers, you accept any Konspiracy theory on the Internet.

    Hey Speeder- still waiting for you to continue your thread on how Blacks and American Indians are stupider than Europeans because they didn't invent writing.
     
  18. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    11,132
    Likes Received:
    4,899
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The guy obviously knows nothing about American military hardware. Compare the USS Enterprise to the rest of the worlds carriers, oh wait thats right lol....

    Then come back and tell me how "used up" that machine is.
     
  19. Think for myself

    Think for myself Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2008
    Messages:
    65,277
    Likes Received:
    4,592
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We have an air base less than 150 miles away from Iran in Saudi Arabia. Why do we need more military in the gulf?
     
  20. DonGlock26

    DonGlock26 New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2010
    Messages:
    47,159
    Likes Received:
    1,179
    Trophy Points:
    0


    The USS Constitution exists today because of Muslim Piracy.




    "Launched in 1797, Constitution was one of six original frigates authorized for construction by the Naval Act of 1794 and the third constructed. Joshua Humphreys designed the frigates to be the young Navy's capital ships, and so Constitution and her sisters were larger and more heavily armed and built than standard frigates of the period."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Constitution

    "From then until 1797, the United States' only armed maritime service was the Revenue Marine, founded in 1790 at the prompting of Secretary of the Treasury Alexander Hamilton.[4][5] In the same year, 1785, two American merchant ships had been captured by Algiers and then Minister to France Thomas Jefferson began to urge the need for an American naval force to protect their passage through the Mediterranean. Jefferson's recommendations were initially met with indifference. However, Congress in 1786, and the Senate in 1791, discussed various proposals for a naval force, including estimates of costs for building frigates, but none were acted upon.[5] Only in 1793 when Algiers had captured eleven additional merchant ships was a proposal finally taken seriously.[3][6]

    A bill was presented to the House of Representatives on 20 January 1794 providing for the construction of four ships to carry forty-four guns each, and two ships to carry thirty-six guns each — by purchase or otherwise. The bill also provided pay and sustenance for naval officers and sailors and outlined how each ship should be manned in order to operate them. Opposition to the bill was strong and a clause was added that should peace be established with Algiers the construction of the ships was to cease.[6]"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Act_of_1794
     
  21. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    11,132
    Likes Received:
    4,899
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Show of force, the same reason other nations hold those elaborate military parades on TV.

    Plus the US Navy is always in the Gulf, so are the British. You are just hearing about it more now because of whats going on with Iran. Britain and France added their battleships to the US fleet to elevate the show of force.
     
  22. DonGlock26

    DonGlock26 New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2010
    Messages:
    47,159
    Likes Received:
    1,179
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Obama's in campaign mode. He's got nothing but pain domestically. So, you have a saber-rattling Dem on your progressive hands. ;)


    _
     
  23. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2011
    Messages:
    20,847
    Likes Received:
    188
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The Enterprise still has a huge air wing, four good catapults, two set of arrestor gear, and up-to-date anti-aircraft missiles, including RAF close-in point defense.

    Also, carriers go nowhere alone. She has destroyers, missile cruisers and at least four fast attack subnarines in her CVBG. Not to mention a fast replenushment task force.

    With eight reactors she is hugely redundant. Take out one and she still can make flank speed.
     
  24. Someone

    Someone New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    Messages:
    7,780
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Absolute bull(*)(*)(*)(*). The United States has been a sworn enemy of Iran since the Iranian Revolution. We were enemies on day one, because they deposed out bought and paid for dictator.

    They've acted pretty rationally so far. They certainly haven't been acting in US interests, or in a way the United States would prefer, but that's a far cry from being some irrational state that MAD wouldn't apply to. Everything Iran has done recently has been in keeping with a goal of continued existence.

    It's pretty clear that Iran's only real interest in a nuclear weapon is to dissuade the US or Israel from attacking them.

    ... Why? Are they less deserving of self-determination? Do they not deserve to determine their own fate, and chart their own course? What gives us the right to tell them what they must do?

    Yeah, it's pretty clear that their only real interest in nuclear weapons is self-defense and giving them some freedom to expand their influence in the region. The US won't attack a nuclear power, so as much as we might howl and whine about it, we would have to take the military option off the table when dealing with them.

    Iran doesn't seem like a country acting in a suicidal manner.

    This view of power is one I don't like. Certainly that is how realpolitik works, but that's not something we ought to admire or aspire towards. It's a terrible way to view the world.

    The real world could be more fair than it is, if we would stop acting in ways to make it less fair.
     
  25. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    11,132
    Likes Received:
    4,899
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Don't mean to chop up your post but this is the only part that I actually want to respond to.

    You understand how the real world works, you may not like it, and those of lesser power don't like it either but that's how it is.

    I'm perfectly fine with keeping vice grips on enemy nations. I won't change your mind about how the world "should" work, but I'm glad you are at least willing to acknowledge that this is how the world does work.

    Yes they world could be 100% fair. We could try another Balance of Power. But we won't because we realize how the real world is. We could give everyone nukes so that we all had an equal say so in what goes on in the world.

    This is how human civilization has always been. Those with power have more of a say so than those with lesser power, and those with power fight to keep that power by ensuring others can't reach it.

    I've said it a hundred times on here, if I were Iran I'd be pissed too and doing the exact same thing that they are doing. I'd tell the US and Israel and everybody else to goto hell and keep on making my nukes in defiance. I'll be (*)(*)(*)(*)ed if somebody bullies me around.
    I don't blame them for what they are doing, like you said they are trying to advance themselves as a regional superpower and make it to where the US or Israel can't bully them around anymore.

    But the thing is I'm not an Iranian. I'm an American and Im on the American side of this conflict, not theirs. Plus I'm not convinced that Iran won't attack Israel with nuclear weapons or give them to one of the many terror organizations operating there.
     

Share This Page