Yes, some socialists (and even Conservatives) often agree with me. I typically point out practical approaches and real solutions. But I don't need to speak for anyone... they can (as usual) take/leave what I opine about.
And how do YOU define "well off"? (You do need to define that, for your comments to make any real sense.)
Last edited by Johnny-C; Feb 23 2012 at 04:20 AM.
VOTE BLUE in 2016 (and for at least a generation, thereafter)!!!
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." -C. Darwin-
If the premise of this tripe is that a family of 3 living on 17k have it pretty good and they can do with a lot less.....um.....I don't really know what to say about that. Obviously those commenting have never had to live like that. I think it would be fun to watch them try.
I think the guy who did the documentary "supersize me" did a program on just that. He and his fiancé lived for a month on minimum wage. It was eye opening.
"Let's be blunt and acknowledge the biggest threat to the world's biggest economy are the cranks and crazies that have taken over a part of the Republican party," Australian treasurer, Wayne Swan
The biggest problem I see most times when people bash things like Minimum Wage, is that they always look at big cities when screaming how horrible it is. They look at somebody in New York or Los Angeles, where the minimum wage comes nowhere even close to allowing somebody to make ends meet.
And to see that in action, look around many areas of the South East, where the "Katrina Exodus" has been living at for years. I know several people who were relocated to South-East Alabama from New Orleans was wiped out. And all but 1 remained in the area afterwards.
Most of them told me that it was because of better job opportunities and a lower cost of living that they stayed there. I know I had no problem making my rent of $200-400 a month.
The biggest thing I can encourage people to do who are trapped in low income jobs in big cities to do is to move. I myself moved from Los Angeles to SE Alabama. My income dropped in half, but I was able to make my money go much farther because things like rent dropped from 50-75%. My car insurance dropped by 60%. My monthly gas useage dropped by over 80% (instead of a 40+ mile commute each way in heavy traffic, I drove around 5 miles each way in light traffic).
I do not believe it is "society" or "the system" that makes a large percentage of the poor. It is certainly compounded by trying to live in big cities, with a high cost of living and less employment opportunities.
The US is the worst of all advanced countries in dealing with those the capitalists have robbed, but the key point is not the degree to which their victims are near starvation but the existence of a caste society in which, despite all the lies you tell them, they can never advance. Deeply unequal societies are deeply unhappy societies - for both the thieves and the mugs.
I'm too drunk to taste this chicken. - Colonel Sanders
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville
And before you attempt to spray more detritus on the conversation, I did live as you're suggesting it would be fun to see, only in my case, our family income was about that inflation-adjusted level in a family of 6.
It also a unique exposure of your own ideological motivations for you to admit that it would be 'fun' to see someone living at that level, regardless who they are, or were.
For who? Speaking as someone who has had absolute first hand experience living in an ultra-low income household - and then who was homeless for a time - it is clear and apparent that your frame of reference is skewed.I think the guy who did the documentary "supersize me" did a program on just that. He and his fiancé lived for a month on minimum wage. It was eye opening.
The person who had a higher standard of living and then lost it has a far harder time than those who have only known being poor.
When you're poor, your appreciation of things is different. You don't know or understand that because you're projecting your present status on the discomfort of losing it. In short, you really don't know.
My family was poor because my father had bad habits. He was lazy and undisciplined, among other problems. I know why we were poor, but while I lived it, I had no really sorrow or pity for my situation, and most who find themselves in a similar situation do not either - most feelings they have revolve around their own understanding that nearly the entire reason they are in that situation is due to themselves.
And those who act on such feelings and route them constructively leave that circumstance, as I did. Those who do not have no one to blame but themselves - if they have such feelings - and (if they don't), they are content.
So leave them be, and stop projecting your pity on those who do not require it.
Personally, I find it rather insulting that you think that people in this country must either leave or turn to crime in order to do that. And it shows that you have absolutely no concept of how things work in the United States.
And yes, I have done that personally myself. In 2000, I found myself out of work for 5 months, and ended up on the street. I found placement in a homeless facility for veterans, and they let me live there while I went to school for 6 months.
At the end of that time (the school was all paid for by government grants available to anybody) I was able to get back to work within a month, making $24 an hour ($48k a year). My wife was not homeless, but she used a combination of grants and our own money to pay for nursing school, and makes a good living also.
And there are companies all over the country that are doing almost anything they can to get qualified employees. A trucking company near where I live (Mesilla Valley Transportation ) is offering free driver training, and a 2 year contract for anybody that is qualified. And a major natural gas company (Chesapeake Energy) is also offering many jobs with free training and relocation expenses paid.
There are jobs out there, but many people simply do not qualify for them by their own life choices. I know that when I was involved in the hiring process for computer technicians at a major corporation, we had to turn away between 10-25% of applicants for either drug use, criminal records or driving record.
I have only recently started to send out my resume, but already have 3 companies wanting to interview me as soon as I arrive in California next month. And 9 years ago when I moved to Alabama I had a job within 3 weeks that I held for 5 years (I would still be there today if I had not re-entered the military).
My wife moved to California last week, and already has a job that she starts in 2 weeks. And we will both be working in an area where the unemployment rate is 11.1%.
There are jobs out there. In fact, in places like North Dakota the unemployment rate is around 3%. And the same is true in Northern Texas. I believe the biggest problems with employment is either personal background, lazyness, refusal to learn a new trade, refusal to "start at the bottom", or refusal to relocate.