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Thread: When do we execute Manning?

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    Quote Originally Posted by IgnoranceisBliss View Post
    He had a top secret clearance.
    The only "screw up" was letting one person have so much access to so much information.
    These two issues are linked, and form the core of the argument for executions higher up the chain. If the leak warrants death, then obviously it warrants death for the people who improperly released the information higher up the food chain.
    Last edited by Someone; Feb 16 2012 at 04:16 PM.


  2. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IgnoranceisBliss View Post
    What did he reveal? Everyone acts like he revealed som secret conspiracy.
    In a way, he did. He revealed a systematic effort by US authorities to conceal a number of important truths in the conflict in Afghanistan--for example, the concealment of Afghan civilian deaths, and the concealment of misconduct by American forces.

    However, he did know the consequences of this alleged act, and if he is responsible as alleged then he deserves the punishment for violating it. Julian Assange, however, does not--he was under no particular obligation to US authorities, nor had any particular reason to respect US domestic law or remain particularly loyal to the United States. The harassment of the wikileaks team is unjustified, even if punishment of Manning (if he is indeed responsible--a fact not yet proven) might not be.

    You notice that you hear almost nothing about what was released....because the overwhleming majority of it wasn't sexy enough for the media to report on.
    There are a number of ways to interpret the quiet reaction of the media. Indeed, the details are not particularly sexy or spectacular. That is part of the explanation, but the media has in the past reported on boring yet important news items, so that does not fully explain their lack of interest. I think they are probably afraid of retaliation by the Government. It does not help that the news cycle (as it relates to political or economic matters) is largely dictated by the government, and the government has a obvious reason to avoid commentary.

    He did apparently reveal some informants who were killed though. Tell me, what outrage has come from the release of the documents? Nothing from the U.N., the Hague, or any respectable international organization calling for charges.
    There is no international basis for national secrecy, though there is an international basis for free speech rights and the protection of the press. What crime was committed outside of the US by the release of this information? Why would anyone expect foreign citizens to express any particular allegiance to the United States?

  3. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Someone View Post
    These two issues are linked, and form the core of the argument for executions higher up the chain. If the leak warrants death, then obviously it warrants death for the people who improperly released the information higher up the food chain.
    So implementing a possibly flawed intelligence network (which is still arguable) is the same basis for execution as someone who maliciously and intently released top secret information to foreign agents?

    The higher ups didn't "leak" anything. Manning was a highly trained and screened military intelligence Soldier with a top secret clearance who released the information on his own.
    I have no joy in strife,
    Peace is my great desire;
    Yet God forbid I lose my life
    Through fear to face the fire. -Henry Van Dyke

  4. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Someone View Post
    In a way, he did. He revealed a systematic effort by US authorities to conceal a number of important truths in the conflict in Afghanistan--for example, the concealment of Afghan civilian deaths, and the concealment of misconduct by American forces.

    However, he did know the consequences of this alleged act, and if he is responsible as alleged then he deserves the punishment for violating it. Julian Assange, however, does not--he was under no particular obligation to US authorities, nor had any particular reason to respect US domestic law or remain particularly loyal to the United States. The harassment of the wikileaks team is unjustified, even if punishment of Manning (if he is indeed responsible--a fact not yet proven) might not be.



    There are a number of ways to interpret the quiet reaction of the media. Indeed, the details are not particularly sexy or spectacular. That is part of the explanation, but the media has in the past reported on boring yet important news items, so that does not fully explain their lack of interest. I think they are probably afraid of retaliation by the Government. It does not help that the news cycle (as it relates to political or economic matters) is largely dictated by the government, and the government has a obvious reason to avoid commentary.



    There is no international basis for national secrecy, though there is an international basis for free speech rights and the protection of the press. What crime was committed outside of the US by the release of this information? Why would anyone expect foreign citizens to express any particular allegiance to the United States?
    What Afghan civilian deaths were concealed, and what atrocities were concealed? And here's the kicker, people from around the world with no understanding of military operations will declare something that's completely legal within the laws of war as an atrocity. The Apache video being the perfect example. You'll more than likely cite something that's an atrocity by your "standards" that is completely legal by the laws of war.

    Ironically, Wikileaks looked at all the leaked documents on civilian casualties in Iraq and found the official U.S. number to be extremely close. You and your like won't mention that though because it doesn't fit into your idea of evil secret conspiracies. How come no one is really talking about the leak anymore? It's only about Manning now. It's because very little was actually learned from hundreds of thousands of pages of documents.
    I have no joy in strife,
    Peace is my great desire;
    Yet God forbid I lose my life
    Through fear to face the fire. -Henry Van Dyke

  5. #45

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IgnoranceisBliss View Post
    Ironically, Wikileaks looked at all the leaked documents on civilian casualties in Iraq and found the official U.S. number to be extremely close. You and your like won't mention that though because it doesn't fit into your idea of evil secret conspiracies. How come no one is really talking about the leak anymore? It's only about Manning now. It's because very little was actually learned from hundreds of thousands of pages of documents.
    I have long laughed at the very one-sided reporting of the information revealed by WikiLeaks.

    The MSM and Left Wing blogs will be yelling and screaming about the report of a soldier who kicks a dog, yet will totally ignore a report about chemical weapons, or the report of US medics rushing to the site of a suicide bomber to assist those who were wounded.

    But yes, most of what was in there was pretty dull. Lists of repair parts at this FOB, and a cluster of patrol logs for several weeks where nothing happened.

    Here is a list of things that WikiLeaks also revealed, that nobody talks about:

    Iran provided chemical weapons to Iraq
    Syria aimed chemical weapons at Israel
    Dozens of chemical stockpiles were found in Iraq
    Chinese companies provided chemical weapons equipment to Iran
    al-Qaeda was attempting to acquire chemical and nuclear weapons for strikes against Europe and the US.
    Over 550 tons of Yellowcake Uranium was found in one stockpile in Iraq

    I can go on and on and on, but it really does not matter. Because I have tried to show people who still believe the "No WMD" lie, and show them direct evidence in WikiLeaks. But somehow that is a lie, but everything else is real.

  6. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mushroom View Post
    I have long laughed at the very one-sided reporting of the information revealed by WikiLeaks.

    The MSM and Left Wing blogs will be yelling and screaming about the report of a soldier who kicks a dog, yet will totally ignore a report about chemical weapons, or the report of US medics rushing to the site of a suicide bomber to assist those who were wounded.

    But yes, most of what was in there was pretty dull. Lists of repair parts at this FOB, and a cluster of patrol logs for several weeks where nothing happened.

    Here is a list of things that WikiLeaks also revealed, that nobody talks about:

    Iran provided chemical weapons to Iraq
    Syria aimed chemical weapons at Israel
    Dozens of chemical stockpiles were found in Iraq
    Chinese companies provided chemical weapons equipment to Iran
    al-Qaeda was attempting to acquire chemical and nuclear weapons for strikes against Europe and the US.
    Over 550 tons of Yellowcake Uranium was found in one stockpile in Iraq

    I can go on and on and on, but it really does not matter. Because I have tried to show people who still believe the "No WMD" lie, and show them direct evidence in WikiLeaks. But somehow that is a lie, but everything else is real.
    You wouldn't happen to have links to this info, would you? I'd like to use it for when I do battle with ideologues in the future.
    I have no joy in strife,
    Peace is my great desire;
    Yet God forbid I lose my life
    Through fear to face the fire. -Henry Van Dyke

  7. #47

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IgnoranceisBliss View Post
    You wouldn't happen to have links to this info, would you? I'd like to use it for when I do battle with ideologues in the future.
    Most of it is easy to find. Just search for things like "WikiLeaks Yellowcake", "Wikileaks Chemical Weapons" and the like.

    And for those that are search impaired, here is an example of how you do it.

    http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=wikileaks+yellowcake


  8. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mushroom View Post
    Most of it is easy to find. Just search for things like "WikiLeaks Yellowcake", "Wikileaks Chemical Weapons" and the like.

    And for those that are search impaired, here is an example of how you do it.

    http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=wikileaks+yellowcake

    I'm perfectly capable of using google. I was hoping you had one consolidated source or article for it.
    I have no joy in strife,
    Peace is my great desire;
    Yet God forbid I lose my life
    Through fear to face the fire. -Henry Van Dyke

  9. #49

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IgnoranceisBliss View Post
    I'm perfectly capable of using google. I was hoping you had one consolidated source or article for it.
    Oh I am well aware of that. And notice, I said "for those", not "for you"

    I generally do not use "single source" locations, since most of them tend to have strong bias. I would rather look up each individual source of information on it's own, and judge it on it's own merits.

  10. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mushroom View Post
    Most of it is easy to find. Just search for things like "WikiLeaks Yellowcake", "Wikileaks Chemical Weapons" and the like.

    And for those that are search impaired, here is an example of how you do it.

    http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=wikileaks+yellowcake

    Does Wikileaks provide the source for information that everyone here apparently knows about the F-22? I would really like to know where people are getting the information they think is accurate. Thanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Herkdriver View Post

    The average fighter pilot, despite his or her sometimes swaggering exterior, is very much capable of feelings such as love, affection, intimacy and caring. These feelings just don't involve anyone else. ~ anon.

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