The Hypocrisy Of The Pro Life Movement

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by Makedde, Feb 12, 2012.

  1. Makedde

    Makedde New Member Past Donor

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    Lifers are hypocrites. They insist that all they want to do is 'save babies' but that is a lie and they know it.
    Why are lifers hypocrites, and why does their position fail?

    - lifers are oposed to abortion, yet many of them seek to ban the very thing that will reduce abortions - birth control. In other words, this is about sex - specifically, women having sex.

    - lifers want to ban hormonal contraception, but they ignore the fact that millions of women are on contraception for medical reasons, no social reasons. But hey, women are just lying about the pain they experience, right? And we know that pro life men think that period pain is just like a headache to them.

    - lifers hate abortions because they claim the fetus can feel pain, but they want terminally ill fetuses to be born into a life of suffering far greater than any pain an abortion could create.

    - lifers claim to care about children so much, yet they don't care if a young child sees graphic images of 'abortions' on the TV or on a banner.

    - lifers care about children, but they take their children to an anti abortion protest, using them as a tool to promote their agenda.

    - lifers insist that by forcing women to view an ultrasound of her 'baby' she will change her mind and keep it. They claim this is so she will be aware of what she is doing - but would lifers watch the execution of a condemned man, including a botched execution, so they can be sure what they are supporting?

    - lifers want to reduce abortions, yet they complain about the number of parents on welfare to feed their kids. If those mothers had abortions when they were able to, they wouldn't be on welfare, would they?

    - some lifers are even so extreme that they won't even allow for an abortion if the woman would die. If you will die if you continue with your pregnancy, that's just tough (*)(*)(*)(*), and you have to leave your existing children behind because to save your own life and mother your existing children is just selfish and wrong.

    This argument has nothing to do with saving babies, and never has. Its about punishing women for having sex. By banning birth control, a woman cannot have sex without fear of falling pregnant. But while they ban hormonal birth control, I bet that no one will touch condoms - condoms affect men, after all, and its unfair to deny men the right to satisfy their sexual desires.

    Lifers demand that people keep their babies, or give it up for adoption, like there are millions of people waiting to adopt a child. Yet they want to prevent gay couples and single people from adopting, which means that there are babies that cannnot be adopted because the adoptive parents don't fit their criteria.

    Lifers want women to have their babies even if the baby will suffer from a severe disease or illness. 'Just give it up for adoption' they say. They tell choicers that aborting a 'baby' is like throwing it away like rubbish, yet they can't see that giving away your own flesh and blood to a stranger is the exact same thing. They also assume that people actually want to adopt severely disabled children. 99% of people who adopt want a healthy child, not a sick one. Lifers ignore this though, and of course they would, as it goes against their arguments.

    Lifers want to force their opinions on everyone else. They don't care if you are too young, or already have children, or can't afford a baby, or have broken up with your partner, or were raped. If you get pregnant, you must have that baby whether you like it or not. It isn't their bodies but they seek to assert their authority over YOUR lives and YOUR bodies.

    Its about time it stopped.
     
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  2. Drago

    Drago Well-Known Member

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    Everyone is entitled to their opinion, that's the beauty of America right? I don't think that all lifers believe in all the criteria you mentioned. I would think most just don't like the fact that a baby is being killed. No matter how you look at the situation, that is indeed what is happening. If nothing is done, most likely a baby is born. If an abortion is performed there is in no way a baby is being born.

    Honestly I don't really get what the whole fuss over abortion is about, because obviously its not ever going away. As far as I'm concerned, the person making the decision has to live with it the rest of their life and it's up to them. It has nothing to do with me. The thing that is not talked about is when the father wants to keep the baby, but the woman wants to get rid of it. That, in my opinion, is where the issue lies. Yea, I know, women's rights and all that, f**k the man's right. Whatever, I don't have to deal with it, not my problem, so live your life as you will.
     
  3. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

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    I try to be fair always, but I've never seen any pro life literature that makes sense to me.

    I believe everyone should be entitled to live their lives according to their own moral beliefs as they long as they are not harmful to other people.

    That is why I would strongly oppose mandated abortions or any interference in what women decide to do about their pregnancy. If continuing with a pregnancy will possibly result in the death of the pregnant woman and her foetus, then so be it if that's what she decides after weighing up all the information.

    I've been arguing against the pro life movement for many years and I've noticed how their argument has changed over time.

    Only a small minority of people are against legal abortion under any circumstances and despite the efforts made by the pro life brigade, that number has remained stubbornly stable over the years - so they've concentrated less on the moral wrongs of abortion and have shifted to trying to convince us abortion is harmful to women.

    They peddle lies and misinformation.

    If I were a pro lifer, this would worry me.
     
  4. Unifier

    Unifier New Member

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    So many dishonest, uneducated, and flat out wrong arguments here I don't even know where to begin. This isn't even a straw man. You've managed to build a giant straw Voltron.

    For the last time, nobody gives a crap what you do with your body. If you don't believe me, go poke your eye out with a sharp stick RIGHT NOW and see how many lifers even care. Or if that's too extreme, just go get a tattoo. Or go pierce something. Or shave your head.

    I've noticed that none of you "my body, my choice" people ever take me up on this when I point this out to you. Could it be because I've called you out and you realize I'm right? That it's not really about anyone controlling your body afterall?
     
  5. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    Those who consider "reproductive freedom" to include killing babies wish to lecture on hypocrisy. Amazing.
     
  6. Cady

    Cady Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A single cell is not a "baby." Never has been.
     
  7. Cady

    Cady Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    None of those things would give you control of a woman's body. None of those things would force a woman to give up her education or career and stay at home to have as many children as God gives her.

    If you were honest about your motives, you would promote policies proven to reduce the abortion rate. But no, you (meaning most pro-lifers) are actually AGAINST affordable access to birth control and comprehensive sex education. If you were honest about your motives, you would promote policies to help women and families once babies are born. And certainly, if you were actually "pro-life," you would be against unnecessary war and deregulation of environmental protections.

    Until you promote policies that actually reduce the abortion rate and protect the quality of life for existing individuals, your "pro-life" claim is simply not credible.

    And really, "go poke your eye out with a sharp stick RIGHT NOW and see how many lifers even care" ??? That is exactly the point. You DON'T care about women.
     
  8. TheHat

    TheHat Well-Known Member

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    All I want is for pro-aborts to answer questions, not start a ranting thread.

    After reading the OP, pro-aborts still will say they are not "for" abortions....lol.
     
  9. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

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    That is a lie.


    You're making a list of things that are OK with you.

    If you want to deny women the right to control their own reproductive health.

    That is wanting control over their body.
     
  10. Gator Monroe

    Gator Monroe Banned

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    I'm all for Abortion Free on demand & well funded (In every turd world village & hamlet & Town & City in the Middle East, Africa, the Near East, the Far East /Asia, Asia /Pacific ,South & Central America .
     
  11. Blasphemer

    Blasphemer Well-Known Member

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    I might start to believe you you if anti-choicers (even on this forum) start to actually use ONLY the argument that abortion is wrong because killing babies is wrong, and not arguments such as abortion is wrong because women dont face consequences ("responsibility") for sex, or because it will incentivise sex outside marriage etc.

    Using such arguments shows that you dont want to save babies, but punish women for promiscuity or sexual irresponsibility. Two very different motivations.
     
  12. prometeus

    prometeus Banned

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    You could stop commenting about your own posts and come up with some rational arguments.
     
  13. Makedde

    Makedde New Member Past Donor

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    Choicers are for choice. Lifers are for oppression.
     
  14. marbro

    marbro New Member

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    A baby does not come from thin air and if it were not for human interference some of those single cells could eventually defend themselves. But seeing as how you got lucky and your parents didn't step in and end your life I guess it does not matter to you who else dies.
     
  15. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

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    What matters to me is the life of the woman. Pregnancy and childbirth is a life changing experience that no woman should have to go through unwillingly.

    As for me, luck didn't come into it. My parents wanted children and were overjoyed to discover they'd have a baby by the following summer.
     
  16. Unifier

    Unifier New Member

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    Which was exactly my point. We have no interest in controlling you. You should do whatever you want with your body. You are trying to build a straw man here.



    Cady, stop and examine the logical consistency of your post here for a second. You started off by accusing lifers of wanting to control what women do with their bodies. Then after I pointed out that you could do something as extreme as poking out your own eye and we wouldn't care, now you're accusing us of not wanting to stop you from doing something with your own body.

    [​IMG]



    Interesting how the only thing missing from that list is murder, isn't it?



    The argument you are attempting to construct here is like me arguing that anti-homicide laws deny me the right to control what I can do with my own gun.
     
  17. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

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    No, as your gun isn't part of your body. That should be obvious.
     
  18. Cady

    Cady Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Making abortion illegal DOES has something to do with controlling a woman's body. How can you say it does not?

    I didn't suggest you should make laws to stop women from gouging their eyes out with a stick, but as you admitted, you wouldn't care if they did.


    To prove abortion is murder, you must first prove that a single cell is a person. Over half of all fertilized eggs are flushed away during menses, and no one even gives it a thought. These are not children.
     
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  19. Drago

    Drago Well-Known Member

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    You say this, but has anything changed? Have women lost the right to have abortions? No, they haven't. Bush was probably the most pro life president in recent history and it didn't go anywhere. And it likely never will, because the Supreme Court won't overturn it. The whole argument is almost mute. No right has been taken from women.
     
  20. Makedde

    Makedde New Member Past Donor

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    So when a state agrees to restrict abortion rights, no right to an abortion has been taken from women?
     
  21. Drago

    Drago Well-Known Member

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    Restricted is completely different from not being able to have one. I don't believe other people should have to pay for someone Else's abortion. If somebody wants an abortion, they should have to pay for it.
     
  22. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    why would murder be on the list ?
     
  23. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

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    Makedde said,

    That is not all we work for. This statement shows your lack of knowledge of the pro-life movement. If you look up Right to Life in any state…it will include all you talk about that you say we don't do. Birth control, euthanasia, stem cell…all life issues. You need to get educated.


    Another area that you don't know. If you look up birth control in the Physicians Desk Reference book…on the birth control pill information it… says that it can cause early abortion.

    "From medical textbooks and pharmacy references, to statements from the Pill-manufacturers themselves, this book proves, beyond any doubt, the abortion-causing action of birth control pills. This book should be read by everyone interested in knowing the truth."

    ~ Paul L. Hayes, M.D., Board Certified Fellow of the American College of Obstetricians/Gynecologists

    The Physician’s Desk Reference is the most frequently used reference book by physicians in America. The PDR, as it’s often called, lists and explains the effects, benefits, and risks of every medical product that can be legally prescribed. The Food and Drug Administration requires that each manufacturer provide accurate information on its products, based on scientific research and laboratory tests.

    As you read the following, keep in mind that the term “implantation,” by definition, always involves an already conceived human being. Therefore, any agent which serves to prevent implantation functions as an abortifacient.

    This is the PDR’s product information for Ortho-Cept, as listed by Ortho, one of the largest manufacturers of the Pill:

    Combination oral contraceptives act by suppression of gonadotropins. Although the primary mechanism of this action is inhibition of ovulation, other alterations include changes in the cervical mucus, which increase the difficulty of sperm entry into the uterus, and changes in the endometrium which reduce the likelihood of implantation.

    Physicians’ Desk Reference (Montvale, NJ: Medical Economics, 1998).


    Let me reword this honey.

    Prochoicers know the fetus can feel pain but DONT CARE…. its the woman's right to kill anyway and by gosh they should be able to do it. So for them pain…whats a little pain anyway?

    Pro-aborts live in an "what if" world. What if the child will be poor, will get bad grades, suffer sickness, etc etc etc……..Killing is the only option in their playbook.


    Oh yes…not like the pro-choicer who believes in showing kids what position is best to get the most out of sex. Who wants to provide them with condoms that not only feel good but taste good too. They live in the real world and treat their kids like adults….they allow them to listen to rap…which is nothing more than porn put to music…watch television shows that embrace sexuality, let them experience violent games on the internet….etc etc etc…but a few graphic pictures showing the face of abortion…..THEY THEY FREAK OUT OF THEIR OWN MINDS. its to much for them. LOL They just don't want to explain to their kids ANYTHING ABOUT THE PROCEDURE THAT THEY CONDONE. "How can you think that mommy?"

    And you say you want the truth to be told. LMAO Your the hypocrite not me. I told my kids the truth and they were better for it. Yes lets hide the truth from our children why don't we……….I would rather do this…than do like the pro-aborts do by telling their children….hey go have sex…and I'll pay to have your kid killed should you get knocked up.

    Yes lets hide the truth……shhhhhh it will go away won't it?

    And do you think I am for the death penalty? LMAO You don't know what your talking about. Your quite comical. I am NOT FOR THE DEATH PENALTY. So what now honey?

    No…we want to make abortion illegal once again. Welfare is another subject…and has nothing to do with the sanctity of life. People should take responsibilities for their own actions and not rely on the government or anyone else to foot their bills. Because I do not want to support your children does not make me any less …pro-life. It would show you didn't have much upstairs that you could not stand up for your own mistakes. Blame blame…is that all you socialists do?

    LOL Your a trip. Less than 1 % of all abortions are done to save the life of the mother. Wow. When a mothers life is in danger most the time both can be saved.


    Not for your side…its about the right to kill them. You see…..you don't get it.
    Every women knows that if she has sex….pregnancy could happen. She is an idiot if she does not know the risks. But other than rape…a woman invites the male inside her….and TAKES THE RISK. Its her body…her responsibility. Why should I be punished if YOU MAKE THE MISTAKE ? But two wrongs do not make a right.

    How old are you? LMAO So rubbers should not be used because the man won't enjoy it? To frikin bad. I have never heard a more stupid statement than this one. Condoms affect men eh? LMAO


    What is wrong with adoption? And why bring gayness into this? You are just all over the page on this because your positions are so weak.


    WHAT….If IF IF IF IF IF IF…..is that the world you live in? Abortion is killing a living human being. If a woman does not want to kill…then don't take the chance, don't have sex. If you do then give the child live, at least with parents who want them. So sad that for you…killing, ripping apart….a tiny little life…is ok…better than letting it live…wow.


    Force? We have a right to fight for what is right. You do not have the right to silence us as long as we are obeying the law. Nothing in the Constitution says that I have to remain silent that I can't promote what I believe is right. You talk about force? That is what Obamas new health care package is all about FORCING PEOPLE TO BUY SOMETHING THEY DONT WANT.

    So sad also that you believe killing a nine month old child in the womb is ok.


    It is about time the blood shed should stop.
     
  24. Makedde

    Makedde New Member Past Donor

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    So lifers also seek to deny living, breathing, human beings the right to decide to end their own lives? So not only are lifers interfering in the personal lives of women, they are also sticking their noses in, trying to prevent us choosing when, where, and how we will die!

    Birth control does not cause abortion. End of story.

    Google the definition of abortion and you will find every definition mentions the expulsion of a fetus or embryo from the uterus.

    I don't give a crap what they say. Birth control does not cause an abortion. Making the uterus hostile to a zygote is NOT abortion.

    The fetus cannot feel ain until at least half way through gestatation. It is lifers who think it can feel pain at 8 weeks.

    Yes, what is a little pain? Is this why lifers would refuse the humane option of abortion, preferring a baby to be born, suffering in great pain until it dies?
    Indeed, what is a little pain?

    Lifers are about what ifs, too. What if the baby grows up and cures cancer?

    Would lifers allow Hitler to be born if they knew what he'd eventually do? Woul they allow Charles Manson to be born if they knew what he would do? To them, the end justifies the means. To any rational person, it doesn't.

    What the heck are you on about?

    Lifers seem to hinge their entire position on a bunch of photos which are extemely questionable.

    What truth? The 'truth' you claim is not true at all.

    How about we let our kids grow up and make up their own minds, intsead of forcing our opinions on them?

    Lifers seek to control women. Got it.

    What if my child would starve to death and you were the only person who could save her? Would you ignore her and protest against abortion instead? Funny thing about lifers, they don't give a (*)(*)(*)(*) about children who hve already been born.

    A very small percentage of abortions are done after 20 weeks gestation, too, but how many times have you raised the question of a woman aborting a nine month old fetus?

    Every driver knows that if they drive down the road, they might get into a accident.

    If you go for a drive and get into an accident, are you an idiot for not being properly cautious about the risks?

    If you hit me with your car, and the accident is entirely your fault, why should I be punished? Can I force you to be responsible and donate bloo to save my life? After all, you have to be responsible and recognised the risk you took.

    NOYB.

    Are you planning on adopting any time soon? Didn't think so, along with 99% of pro lifers.

    My position does not rely soley on images.

    Abortion kills a fetus.

    No woman is going to have sex ONLY because she is repared to have a baby. If we did, we'd all be Catholic., seeing Catholics shun birth control, and most people don't.

    So do we. We fight for the right of women to make reproductive choices, instead of having strangers stick their heads inside our vagina's and dictate to us what we can and cannot do with it.

    So abusing women and throwing objects at them outside abortion clinics is 'following the law'? Is dragging your kids to pro life events and shoving images of fake dead babies down your kids throats moral?

    So what? You don't have to use it.

    Sad that you believe a fetus is worth more than a woman.
     
  25. Cady

    Cady Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You forgot to mention that you copied and pasted this from pro-life activist Randy Alcorn's Eternal Perspectives Ministries website:

    http://www.epm.org/resources/2010/Feb/17/short-condensation-does-birth-control-pill-cause-a/
     

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