Honest Abe...???

Discussion in 'History & Past Politicians' started by pwillie, Feb 12, 2012.

  1. pwillie

    pwillie Active Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    449
    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Do you really think Abe was honest?:hmm:
     
  2. AshenLady

    AshenLady New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2011
    Messages:
    5,555
    Likes Received:
    68
    Trophy Points:
    0
    He looks honest to me.:pretzel:
     
  3. Angedras

    Angedras New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2011
    Messages:
    8,178
    Likes Received:
    168
    Trophy Points:
    0
  4. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2012
    Messages:
    33,372
    Likes Received:
    36,882
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    More books have been written about Honest Abe than any other historical figure except for Jesus Christ. To this day, a handful of new books about him are published every month. Just amazing!
     
  5. pwillie

    pwillie Active Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    449
    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    28
    ....some black folks think he was a racist! Including Malcolm X.....:chew:
     
  6. Angedras

    Angedras New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2011
    Messages:
    8,178
    Likes Received:
    168
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I'm not sure how Malcolm X could have know Lincolns thoughts with certainty, but, Lincoln did seem to send mixed messages regarding personal view on slavery.

    One thing is for sure, he was a skilled (evolving) politician...



    "I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the states where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so." ~ Lincoln ~ 21 August 1858

    ~~~


    "Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it." ~ Lincoln ~ 6 April 1859

    ~~~


    "My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that." ~ Lincoln ~ 22 August 1862

    ~~~

    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln
     
  7. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2012
    Messages:
    33,372
    Likes Received:
    36,882
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    In the past pro slavery types quoted Jesus and the New Testament out of context to support their abhorrent practices.

    The real biblical view on the slave "trade" were expounded here:

    http://utc.iath.virginia.edu/abolitn/abesaegat.html
     
  8. AshenLady

    AshenLady New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2011
    Messages:
    5,555
    Likes Received:
    68
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Who doesn't quote things out of context to support views that are abhorrant and dispicable to everyone else.

    Just look at nazi germany, for starters.:mobile:
     
  9. Angedras

    Angedras New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2011
    Messages:
    8,178
    Likes Received:
    168
    Trophy Points:
    0


    Yes, unfortunately, I believe each of you are correct. *sigh*

    ~~~

    Mr. Truth, thank you for the link. I'm sure it will prove interesting to read.
     
  10. pwillie

    pwillie Active Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    449
    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Abe killed 650,000 Americans.......nothing to do with religion....
     
  11. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2012
    Messages:
    33,372
    Likes Received:
    36,882
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Thank you for the kind words.

    As I mentioned on another thread, I am a long standing member of an American history book club and have done much reading and writing on the subject. In one instance my writings were singled out by noted historian Eric Foner and praised for being a significant contribution to a public discussion he was involved in.

    In my many readings of American history I have come across great writings that have long been overlooked by scholars. That particular writing by Angelina Grinké is, to me, the greatest writing ever by an American female scholar. Everyone interested in American history, everyone interested in the Bible, everyone interested in debunking the myths used to "justify" slavery, everyone involved in Womens history month should read and be fully versed in its writings. Its TRUTHS are absolutely staggering. Had the South only adhered to it, there would never have been a civil war.
     
  12. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2012
    Messages:
    33,372
    Likes Received:
    36,882
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Abe did not start the war. Rebellious southern secessionists did.
     
  13. pwillie

    pwillie Active Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    449
    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    28
    "WRONG"!!!!!The Feds took over Fort Sumter,which was an act of War!Lincoln and his SS staged the plight to inflame the Secessionist movement.It was the "War of Northern Aggression"....and Ole Abe saw away to trample the "Constitution":bonk:
     
  14. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2012
    Messages:
    33,372
    Likes Received:
    36,882
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The South had no legal right to secede nor to shoot at Federal troops under the command of a superior officer. Thereafter, the South forced innocent 500 slaves to keep the fort in order even after they had been emancipated by presidential order. This is treason of the worse kind. And that's the Truth.

    :nod:
     
  15. pwillie

    pwillie Active Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    449
    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Its clear Mr (Truth?)sir that your a "Abe " sympathizer,and thats OK. Everyone needs a champion.Show me in the Constitution where it says that the states belong to the Federal Govt.! The original 7 states that seceded were legal,and the US Federal Troops re enforced Fort Sumter was an act of war perpetrated by honest "Abe".Like it are not,he killed 650,000 Americans to keep the Northern Industrialists in power.The slavery question was used as a purpose to rape the south.Fact is, Lincoln was as big a racist as any clan member.He wanted to ship negroes back to Africa or South America. My eyes were opened to these facts back in 1960!I was raised in southern schools and taught that Abe saved the nation by winning the "Civil War"... it was no civil war,it was a War of Aggression brought on by Mr. Lincoln. You call yourself a "History Scholar"???? History is written by the Victors...Sir your getting involved with States Rights!
     
  16. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2012
    Messages:
    33,372
    Likes Received:
    36,882
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    HAHAHA!!! What a laughable post!

    Did you ever bother to read the Preamble of the Constitution? What does it say?

    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


    What the heck do you suppose this means???
     
  17. pwillie

    pwillie Active Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    449
    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    28
    ..it means that a Constitution was established...now show me where it says you can't secede? You kind of people are ones that write the victors side of the history....Its about time the "TRUTH" was told, I am from the south and belong to the SCV which tells the real "Truth" about the War of Northern Aggression:chainsaw:
     
  18. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2012
    Messages:
    33,372
    Likes Received:
    36,882
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    PW,

    You continue to forget that we are the UNITED States of America and not the separate states of America. As for what is the legal basis for making secession illegal, see the famous Texas v White case of 1869.
     
  19. pwillie

    pwillie Active Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    449
    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Sir!The United Confederacy was a Nation,until The Northern Agression took our rights away at the oint of a bayonet.:evileyes:
     
  20. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2012
    Messages:
    33,372
    Likes Received:
    36,882
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    HAHAHAHA!!! LAUGH OF THE YEAR!!!

    The Constitution was ratified as thus:

    Delaware - December 7, 1787
    Pennsylvania - December 12, 1787
    New Jersey - December 18, 1787
    Georgia - January 2, 1788
    Connecticut - January 9, 1788
    Massachusetts - February 6, 1788
    Maryland - April 28, 1788
    South Carolina - May 23, 1788
    New Hampshire - June 21, 1788
    Virginia - June 25, 1788
    New York - July 26, 1788
    North Carolina - November 21, 1789
    Rhode Island - May 29, 1790


    Thereafter, other states including those in the South ratified it. Your states were never a confederacy except in the limited minds of a few treasonous secessionists who started that war of rebellion.
     
  21. pwillie

    pwillie Active Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    449
    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratifying the Constitution says nothing about seceding...even Mr Lincoln said that if a people of a nation isn't satisfied,rebel!Most all forums have people like you that know everything but know nothing,your cave is waiting climb back into your hole,I'll see you next week when you get hungry again...LOL! :nana:
     
  22. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2012
    Messages:
    33,372
    Likes Received:
    36,882
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Secession is treason according to the Supreme court and to everything American. Only an America hating traitor denies that Truth.
     
  23. pwillie

    pwillie Active Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    449
    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Show me the money! You can't because it doesn't exist.....your soaking in gin....:laughing:
     
  24. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2012
    Messages:
    33,372
    Likes Received:
    36,882
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    :laughing: You obviously hate America. Well, since you don't like it here do yourself a favor and leave. Find your "freedom" somewhere else like, say, Israel, Saudi Arabia, or Russia. :laughing:
     
  25. clarkatticus

    clarkatticus New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    35
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I appreciate your interpretation of the Constitution. The Union did not take over Fort Sumter, it was a Federal Fort. The Constitution was read in different meanings to different people, the document is sufficiently vague to accommodate each side. Fortunately for history and the Nation, the North's interpretation, along with the lives of 650,000 American's, proved to be the winning one. Bitter as you seem about the outcome I suspect the South was more so in 1865. Whenever times are hard and the nation polarizes, these views (I mean yours) become sufficiently acceptable to a large segment of disenfranchised electorate. In fact, many such polarizing views gain wide acceptance on both sides. Truth be known, Lincoln was a realist, he knew that if every time a state felt disenfranchised it could leave the Union we would have about 50 Nations right now. Had the South waited for Supreme Court Justice Taney to grant cert, they might have won in court. The problem was that 60% of the South's economy (assets) were slaves and there was no chance that in the near future slavery would have ended, so the war was a just war, also. The constant drone of how "bad" government is, the senseless fear of losing one's weapons as if that is meaning of life, or just the insipid fear mongering that prevents rational discourse wears on me, all very childish, I think.
     
    Talon and (deleted member) like this.

Share This Page