Miracles of dattaswami

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by dattaswami, Mar 6, 2012.

  1. dattaswami

    dattaswami New Member

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    Miracles indicate the unimaginable nature of God, which indicates the existence of unimaginable God. God exhibits the super power of the miracle for a particular deserving devotee only like the cosmic vision to give support to a concept in the spiritual knowledge given to Arjuna (a devotee) during the discourse of Gita. It is also used to protect deserving devotees like lifting Govardhana hill and it is also used to punish the evil forces like killing demons sent by Kamsa demon. Such protection and punishment through exhibition of miracles indicate the proof that God does the protection and punishment always even in the absence of such exhibition.

    The miracles in general indicate the basic existence of God and hence they are exhibited starting from demons to the human incarnation as police uniform starting from a constable to the top most official. Krishna performed a series of miracles in a selected place of Brundavanam for a selected group of devotees called Gopikas who were the most deserving sages. Later on, Krishna performed the miracles very rarely whenever there was a bare necessity in His view. Through out the Kurukshetra war He performed only one miracle that is hiding the Sun by His Chakra.

    The series of miracles was performed in His childhood as the introduction card, without which no body can identify God. Similarly, God in this human body of this Datta Swami performed a series of miracles within a period of two years before He started the mission spreading divine knowledge exactly 16 yrs back. Latter on the stress on miracles was reduced and stress was given on knowledge and devotion. Krishna limited the spiritual discussion (Gita) only to a particular devotee like Arjuna and also limited His divine love only to a limited set of deserving devotees like Gopikas, Sudama etc. Therefore, the deservingness of the devotee limits the number of devotees.
     
  2. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    the miracle?


    How many see the difference of the BS and information you could actually apply?


    The miracle is the care for what is real. ie... the underlying principles of life, (not the sh't to believe)!
     
  3. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    Actually, the stress has been on verifiable proof since the days of Galileo. And after proving conclusively that a miracle has been performed, you'd have to demonstrate how that indicates the existence of a god. This post will be counted as a post prompting you for evidence (or honest attempt at providing any).

    Now, I know Dattaswami is your username, and that might not be an indication that you think that you are this dattaswami, but if you say that you have performed miracles, why don't you do so in some way that is verifiable? You can even win James Randy's million dollars. You can donate it to charity if you don't want the money in itself, but if you were able to perform a miracle, don't you think the fame and miraculous recognition would be a better way of spreading your word than spamming discussion forums with copypasted material from your website?
     
  4. dattaswami

    dattaswami New Member

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    God created this entire universe for own entertainment. He is not a politician to get followers or worshipers. He already bored with lot of fame and name in the upperworld. For a change He comes to this world in human form, so that He can enjoy even the insult by atheists! Miracles are performed by God when there is an inevitable need for a good devotee, otherwise not. Miracle means the violation of the regular administration of God to be done by God Himself! Unless there is an extraordinary emergency in the case of a deserving devotee or a specific need in the divine mission of God, miracle does not appear. The devotee deserves a miracle when he or she does not aspire for it even in dream and is really involved in the divine mission of the Lord. This is the context of the miracle from the side of the devotee. The miracle can also take place from the side of God whenever a need arises in the divine work. If God feels that an atheist can be converted through a miracle, it takes place.

    If God feels that a miracle can improve the faith or devotion of a devotee, then also a miracle can happen. These two cases are from the side of God and not from the side of devotee. This means that if the devotee says that he will be converted or he will develop the faith and devotion by a miracle, God will not do the miracle unless in His view there is a real hope for it. Even without the request from devotee or atheist, God will exhibit the miracle if God has hope. In any case the devotee should not aspire for the miracle even in the mind.

    The miracle will happen spontaneously if God is convinced. There is no need of any initiation or interaction from the side of the soul. Even a deserving devotee sometimes reduces the speed of the miracle by aspiring for it. The whole problem lies with miracles is that the attention of the soul to God is completely diverted to His power only.
     
  5. charliedk

    charliedk New Member Past Donor

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    the last miracle I heard of was that picture of jesus on a piece of burnt toast..

    if you ask god to get rid of a headache and he does does that make it a miracle..? I'b be more inclined to say it was the aspirin..
     
  6. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    Ignored posts prompting for evidence: 6. I only count my own instances, and I haven't prompted you for any in a while. I did in the last post, though.

    I appreciate that some times, it's reasonable to cut out parts, even large parts, from a post when some of it doesn't make sense or isn't relevant, yet you keep doing it for perfectly reasonable questions. I very rarely receive an actual answer from you, mostly just some anecdote which you appear to think has some bearing. Talk out of your beard.

    James Randy's million dollar challenge is happy to comply to any such conditions. They can give you total anonymity, they can give you the money, or they can hand it to charity for you, or keep it (even though once your miracles have been proven to them, the challenge might seem a bit stupid, and they might just donate it to charity right away).

    I'm not trying to insult anyone, I'm trying to pry any one piece of proof from your answers. You say "If God feels that an atheist can be converted through a miracle, it takes place", right? I would convert on the spot if I saw a miracle that was not possible to accredit to purely material processes, so your god has no reason not to have hope that I would. A physical appearance telling me straight up, and then leaving some form of verifiable evidence would do. However, what kind of god will carefully step around any and all actions that would convince anyone who's got the intellectual integrity to not believe everything they read on the internet?
    So you're saying that miracles have to be conveniently untestable? That God is almighty, but his will is somehow limited because he can't do anything that would actually make sense?
    This is your third paragraph saying pretty much the same thing. You could have just gone with "If God feels that an atheist can be converted through a miracle, it takes place" and then spend the rest of the post answering the actual questions I pose, yes and no will do fine.
     
  7. dattaswami

    dattaswami New Member

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    First of all you must realize that God do not want any money from any body when He is the possessor of this entire world itself! God receives money for His mission of divine knowledge propagation if a devotee donates it to Him without expecting anything in return. Here, God is not benefited, the devotee only is benefited, by showing his real love on God by donating his hard earned money. God do not see the absolute amount, He sees how much of his possession he has donated... Here the bond of God is competing with bond with money. IF one really vote for God, then he will give his entire money to God for His mission here on this earth.

    In any case God need not beg money from any body....
     
  8. dattaswami

    dattaswami New Member

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    Even if a genuine miracles is performed people will come up with many excuses saying that it was magic or trick etc. Miracles are unimaginable actions.

    Of course, one should doubt every thing and everybody and should analyze intensively to find out the truth. There should be a full stop for analysis also. Miracle is the yardstick of ignorant people to measure the Divinity of the Lord. I stayed in the house of Smt.Bhavani for two years. She was always asking me to tell the statement existing in her mind at that time. That was her yardstick to measure my Divinity! I told her that even an evil person who has mastered a type of black magic called Karnapisachi could reveal the statement. But she was insisting me for that on every day. One day I told her that I would tell the statement in her mind provided that she will not insist me again on that. She agreed and I revealed the secret statement in her mind. She was very happy. But next day she asked again. She thought that I might have told the previous statement by coincidence. Suddenly her third son came down from the first floor shouting at her for such foolish test. He was roaring since Kalabhairava possessed him. There is no end for the doubts of doubting Thomas.
     
  9. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    Didn't I just say that you don't need to take the money? That was the entire meaning of the part of the post you quoted.
     
  10. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    Not with James Randi you wont. The entire point of the challenge is to see if there is anything miraculous that isn't actually a cold reading or sleight of hand. As far I as have heard, 100% of all proclaimed miracles have been magic tricks tricks, sleight of hand, light and mirrors or just false testimony.
    Only because the proof you supposedly supplied is very poor proof, and not verifiable. A talented poker player, or even a not-so-talented one, could easily perform your trick. And even if they couldn't, your story might be made up.
     
  11. dattaswami

    dattaswami New Member

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    See, all around the world many many people experience miracles in their lives. Do you think that all of them a fake and only your claim is correct?
     
  12. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    I haven't heard of a single miracle that wasn't easily faked, explainable by natural means or just hearsay (which means it can be made up, and I have seen people who'd make up a claim if people would believe it).

    I have only made verifiable claims, for instance, I have not claimed to be an atheist. I haven't even rejected your claims, only claimed that the methodology you use to get it is faulty.
     
  13. dattaswami

    dattaswami New Member

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    Miracles are easiest for God since the entire creation is His imagination only as nothing is impossible for you in your imaginary world.

    Miracle proves not only the unimaginable nature of God but also proves the imaginary nature of world. Miracle does not give the exact address of God, since miracles are also seen in demons. Only knowledge gives the address of God. Krishna is named as God (Bhagavan) only when He was delivering Gita. To convince and change the human being, which is like the curved tail of dog, only God can do something. Hence, God alone can preach directly. His all-pervading power can enter anyone to express a miracle. Krishna preached Pravrutti to all in the court of Dhrutarashtra. But He preached Nivrutti- based-Pravrutti only to Arjuna in person.

    He preached Nivrutti to Gopikas through flute as secret since they were rigid in devotion. Krishna advised them strongly to go back to their houses and never encouraged them. Seeing their firm faith, He interacted with them in Nivrutti. The address of God is given by the special spiritual knowledge (Prajnanam) and not by miracles. Miracles give only knowledge about the inherent unimaginable nature of God. Except this one purpose, miracles are useless and are always harmful.

    They are not useful to identify God since demons also show miracles. They increase the selfishness by utilizing the super power for solutions of problems and they increase ego. Shri Baba should be taken as God in human form not by His miracles but by the guiding knowledge through His speeches. Veda says that the special spiritual knowledge (Prajnanam) is the identity mark of God.
     
  14. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    Posts prompting for evidence ignored: 7
    And still, he has yet to provide one.
    False. I and many with me have been convinced by different things without problem.
    I'm not interested in the address of God, a simple demonstration of his existence would be enough, please.
    Look, I pose fairly straight forward questions. Shri Baba has nothing to do with the questions I posed, please answer the questions instead of going off on unrelated tangents.
     
  15. dattaswami

    dattaswami New Member

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    Building is there. Implies Builder should be there. Creation is there. Creator should be there. I can see the building, which is in front of my eyes, but builder need not stand in front of the building. He will be in his own job. If you want to meet the builder, you should definitely put effort to locate the builder and see him. Likewise Creation is there in front of our eyes. But have we put anytime effort to locate and identify the creator? Instead of that, with least effort we can propagate to others also that God is not there. They are not only blinded, they are making others also blinded. Some people who are theists may become prey for the propagation of this ignorance also unfortunately. The greatest sin on the earth is to be unfaithful.

    To identify the builder you should know the identification marks, where he lives, what he does etc.. and we have to enquire if we don't know. This is to say that knowledge is required to identify any person. This knowledge is called divine knowledge if the aim is to identify the Lord, which actually only is to be propagated. Lord created this universe for the enjoyment without any selfish motive and we human beings are enjoying the creation. Like through nice parents, wife, children, beautiful nature consisting of pleasant looking mountains, rivers, sea, nature, changing weather etc.

    If we cannot please the Lord, the human life is incomplete. We serve our family members by spending our hard earned money and also physically. Are we not serving family as Servant, and these family members are nearly equal to us. Where as, Lord is omnipotent and requires no help from us, many times satisfied our desires, saved us from mishaps etc. and if we cannot bow our head in front of Him, it is very ridiculous. It is very great honour to serve Him, this is the path followed by His real devotees. These real devotees could overcome ego and always wants to serve Him as servant.
     
  16. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    Ah, so after all this mindless rambling, your best argument boils down to the oh-so-common and repeatedly debunked argument from design.

    In order to tell whether the world was created or not, you can't just compare it to something that was created, you must compare it to something that was created _and_ something that wasn't, to see which one it looks like (that is by no means the entire process, but I believe that's where you first go wrong), but since you don't believe there is anything that wasn't created, you can't have compared it to anything that you think wasn't created.

    How do you know what the universe would look like had it not been created and why do you think this isn't it?

    It has taken some time, but little by little, all the things that look designed have become explained through designerless processes. First, it was thought impossible that the earth could have formed in the solar system. Then science moved forwards and showed that it was not only possible but even necessary. A solution to the last fundamental problem with creation, the existence of matter and space, was proposed in 1994/1995, making the argument "there is no other way it could have happened" faulty. The exact processes that explain it are still, and will forever be, subject to change and increasing complexity, but we have reached a point where God isn't the null hypothesis any more, and the presence of existence is no longer evidence for God.

    Earth and the world are far from perfect, and in the end, the theory that humanity has adapted to the situation rather than the situation adapted to humanity becomes more and more likely.
     

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