Obama Administration's War Against The Second Amendment...Continued...

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by onalandline, Mar 10, 2012.

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  1. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, The Constitution.
     
    Archer0915 and (deleted member) like this.
  2. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How would that be done?
     
  3. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    All gun sales at retailers are subject to NICS checks. There would have been many denials in F&F, had it not been for the BATFE letting those guns "walk".

    Do you think that gun laws should remain in effect that are NOT effective? We have already established that some gun laws are effective, but some are not.

    Would you not agree that rights retained is easier that acquriring those rights?

    He said that Heller was the wrong way to go about that. Just wondering how he would propose it then.
     
  4. Nemo

    Nemo New Member

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    You make me laugh. I am reminded of a gentleman of my acquaintance at the local tavern; who, during the course of discussing the Second Amendment, stated emphatically (pounding his fist on the bar) that he had a "God-given" right to have a gun. Prudence dictated that I not ask what portion of the scriptures he relied on for such "high" authority, for I could tell from his demeanor (he had had a good amount to drink) at the time that he would brook no argument on the subject. Needless to say, I did not put much faith in his argument. God-given rights are only good in heaven; in this world, one need have recourse to the law.
     
  5. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree. The only God-given right, is the right to live.
     
  6. beenthere

    beenthere Well-Known Member

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    Well, let's see;

    ""We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.""

    Now from whom does it say that certain unalienable rights are derived from??? Regardless whether you believe or not, the Declaration of Independence clearly states where the founding fathers felt those rights came from. Go debate it with them if you disagree.
     
  7. Nemo

    Nemo New Member

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    As I pointed out before: the Declaration of Independence was not a foundational document; rather it was the Constitution that established the framework of our government and source of our individual rights and liberty under the rule of law. Thomas Jefferson’s ideas about natural rights were not adopted by the framers of the Constitution. There are no natural rights, there are no unalienable rights, there are only legal rights. The framers of our Constitution created a nation of laws and not men. All men are not created equal, they are equal under the law; and the rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are not unalienable, they are subject to law.
     
  8. Nemo

    Nemo New Member

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    God and the Second Amendment:
     

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  9. Bondo

    Bondo Well-Known Member

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    Ayuh,.... Yer dancin' around semantics, sayin' absolutely Nothin'....

    ""We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.""
     
  10. Nemo

    Nemo New Member

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    Semantics? Quoting the scriptures or John Locke will not get you nowhere in court. Your right to have a gun exists by law, not some religious precept or philosophical construct of no substance or consequence. You will learn the true nature and source of your rights when you have need to enforce and protect them.
     
  11. LoneStrSt8

    LoneStrSt8 New Member Past Donor

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    Our right to bear arms is ours at birth as all our rights are
     
  12. Texsdrifter

    Texsdrifter Well-Known Member

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    I will have to disagree one only has to look at Roe VS Wade. To see our constitution has been used to remove that right as well. While this is much to my dismay it would appear the only god-given right left is death. Even though there are many laws to try an prevent that right from being a choice. As I search to find truth it would appear the only absolute right the constitution grants us is the right to pay taxes. I do not believe that was the intent of the founders; but that does appear to be the facts.
     
  13. Texsdrifter

    Texsdrifter Well-Known Member

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    That may be the case. Yet the government decides from that moment on.
     
  14. Texsdrifter

    Texsdrifter Well-Known Member

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    Nemo is right and to attempt an Kill the messenger for telling you bad news. Is counter productive,having a false sense of security does not make you any safer.
     
  15. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I guess the right to live is guaranteed providing the host lets you live.
     
  16. Texsdrifter

    Texsdrifter Well-Known Member

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    The death penalty allows forfeiture of that right by due process. A criminal can remove that right by their actions. The government can rule you a terrorist and avoid due process. War can remove it for duty. Accidents can remove it by chance. Disease can end it far to soon. If you avoid those listed above old age ends it for all. I am not trying to be combative. I am just trying to demonstrate why Nemo was correct.
     
  17. Texsdrifter

    Texsdrifter Well-Known Member

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    I think this quote from Eleanor Roosevelt explains it well.

    "A right is not something that somebody gives you; it is something that nobody can take away."
     
  18. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I never said that you would live forever. Life is still a God given right. However, it can be taken away in different ways as you mentioned.
     
  19. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ...or something that nobody should take away, since apparently anything can be taken away.
     
  20. Texsdrifter

    Texsdrifter Well-Known Member

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    That would seem to leave death and taxes as the last we have. I welcome anyone to inform me of others rights that I might actual want but I fear they no longer exist.
     
  21. Texsdrifter

    Texsdrifter Well-Known Member

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    I agree totally but being correct isn't always "right" anymore. Or so it would seem.
     
  22. Nemo

    Nemo New Member

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    Thank you for your acknowledgment - I say what is, which is not what I would have it be. My views, unhappily, are not in accord with the modern outlook - I have, I fear, out-lived my usefulness (I shall be 72 next month). Ironically , having lived this long, I think that I should have learned something about life that would be of some use. One lives and learns, and learns mostly to accept things for what they are. For many, it takes a long time to learn this simple lesson in life: “too soon old, too late smart” - as the saying goes. Still, considering past mistakes, one should be glad not to be young and have to go through it all again.
     
  23. Texsdrifter

    Texsdrifter Well-Known Member

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    No need to thank me Sir, for it is I that owe you an apology. In what I believe my first response to you. I said I feared you were a wolf in sheeps clothing, and stated that if I was wrong I would apologize. You are indeed a fellow sheep that was only trying to warn his flock. Of the tall lush grass of ignorance
    that they were feasting was infested by wolves. Your usefulness is far from
    complete. Just because we are not comforted by what we learn does not make
    it useless. While it would appear ignorance is indeed bliss, and obtaining
    knowledge does not inspire but sorrow. I would rather have a head start on
    the wolves that seek to devour me. I am but 38 yet started my quest for
    knowledge only recently. The wisdom you shared cut years off my journey. Yet I fear I have too far to travel to every reach my destination. I appreciate the
    wisdom you share. As well as wish you many more years to share your knowledge. I am but a simple man of both meager means and limited education. Yet I seek battle with those that overpower me in both and intellect as well. It inspires me to learn. A quote I believe from Edison as I don't have it before me it may not be exact. " I have never failed, I have just found 10,000 ways that didn't work." Thank you Sir for allowing me to learn with my pride intact.
     
  24. Nemo

    Nemo New Member

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    You have made a rather profound observation. As a matter of judicial interpretation, Justice Scalia’s opinion in District of Columbia v. Heller is strikingly similar to that of Justice Blackmun in Roe v. Wade. A woman’s right over her body is based on privacy. In this, there is no express provision of the Constitution for a general right of privacy. Rather it is based on the decisions of the Supreme Court in interpreting the First, Fourth, Fifth and Ninth Amendments viewed through the prism of the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment in such cases as Griswold v. Connecticut, Roe v. Wade, Cruzon v. Missouri Dept. of Health, and most recently, Lawrence v. Texas. It is the product of an expansive reading of the Constitution rather than a literal interpretation of its provisions. (I can remember former Judge Robert Bork stating that there was no right to privacy, which did not go down well in the Senate confirmation hearings for his failed nomination to the Supreme Court.) Oddly enough, in extending Second Amendment protection for an individual right to have firearms, Justice Scalia has done the same thing, albeit from the perspective of an original, textural interpretation. Both decisions are controversial, being driven by popular sentiment; which, as Justice Holmes observed, makes bad law.
     
  25. Nemo

    Nemo New Member

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    I have found, often from hard experience, that is unwise to hold too firmly to one’s views. There are few things written in stone; and much of that debatable. A wise man is flexible in his thinking; he is steadfast in his will, not his mind. Contrariwise, every fool is fully convinced, and will brook no argument against his judgment, however wrongheaded. Indeed, it is the mark of an unbalanced mind to be unwilling to consider opposing views. There are always two sides to everything, and a balanced mind weighs them both.

    Over the years, I have changed my views on a lot of things. Ten years ago, I was obliged to sell my wonderful gun collection to pay medical bills for my by-pass surgery. (I had health insurance coverage, but it only paid 70% and heart surgery can be very expensive.) It changed my views on universal healthcare; before I had not thought much about it; but the experience made me realize that most Americans could not afford a major illness and hospitalization without facing financial ruin and bankruptcy. For me, borrowing against my home or dipping into my retirement savings was not a welcome prospect. I had to choose between my guns and my artwork; and at the time I thought I would have less use of the former and more enjoyment of the latter. I don’t do much shooting nowadays. The veins used in the grafts for my heart left me with poor circulation in my legs; and I don’t get around that well. I still have my grandfather’s English shotgun, and my father’s custom-made Colt .45 National Match pistol; which I keep more out of sentiment than for practical purpose.
     
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