"I feel duped on CC" (II)

Discussion in 'Science' started by MannieD, Mar 22, 2012.

  1. MannieD

    MannieD New Member

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    From 'I Feel Duped on Climate Change'
    Yes, if you show that solar activity has increased.
    [​IMG]
    source

    But sunspot numbers have decreased. And yet the temps have gone up.
     
  2. Windigo

    Windigo Banned

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    While sunspot number is a gauge of what the sun is doing it is a first order derivative of total solar intensity TSI. Using sunspot number as opposed to TSI is a common trick of the warmmongers much as they play word games with warming, warmer, warm, and warmest. By passing of sunspot number as a representation of TSI when it is actually representative of the rate of change in the TSI warmmongers are able to misdirect unsuspecting minds about that strong correlation(far stronger when measured correctly that CO2 see polynomial cointegration) between TSI and temperature. Dont be a fool and fall for warmmonger tricks. Much of their lies are based upon the assumption that the common man has a poor understanding of calculus. The true measure of the energy isn't even TSI it is the integration of TSI. The total area under the curve. Which for the warming period has been higher than ever recorded.
     
  3. Gaar

    Gaar New Member

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    Over 700 dissenting scientists (updates previous 650 report) from around the globe challenged man-made global warming claims made by the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and former Vice President Al Gore. This new 2009 255-page U.S. Senate Minority Report -- updated from 2007’s groundbreaking report of over 400 scientists who voiced skepticism about the so-called global warming “consensus” -- features the skeptical voices of over 700 prominent international scientists, including many current and former UN IPCC scientists, who have now turned against the UN IPCC. This updated report includes an additional 300 (and growing) scientists and climate researchers since the initial release in December 2007. The over 700 dissenting scientists are more than 13 times the number of UN scientists (52) who authored the media-hyped IPCC 2007 Summary for Policymakers. The chorus of skeptical scientific voices grow louder in 2008 and 2009 as a steady stream of peer-reviewed studies, analyses, real world data and inconvenient developments challenged the UN’s and former Vice President Al Gore's claims that the "science is settled" and there is a "consensus." On a range of issues, 2008 and 2009 proved to be challenging for the promoters of man-made climate fears. Promoters of anthropogenic warming fears endured the following: Global temperatures failing to warm; Peer-reviewed studies predicting a continued lack of warming; a failed attempt to revive the discredited “Hockey Stick”; inconvenient developments and studies regarding rising CO2; the Spotless Sun; Clouds; Antarctica; the Arctic; Greenland’s ice; Mount Kilimanjaro; Global sea ice; Causes of Hurricanes; Extreme Storms; Extinctions; Floods; Droughts; Ocean Acidification; Polar Bears; Extreme weather deaths; Frogs; lack of atmospheric dust; Malaria; the failure of oceans to warm and rise as predicted.

    In addition, the following developments further secured 2008 and 2009 as the years the “consensus” collapsed. Russian scientists “rejected the very idea that carbon dioxide may be responsible for global warming”. An American Physical Society editor conceded that a “considerable presence” of scientific skeptics exists. An International team of scientists countered the UN IPCC, declaring: “Nature, Not Human Activity, Rules the Climate”. India Issued a report challenging global warming fears. International Scientists demanded the UN IPCC “be called to account and cease its deceptive practices,” and a canvass of more than 51,000 Canadian scientists revealed 68% disagree that global warming science is “settled.” A Japan Geoscience Union symposium survey in 2008 “showed 90 per cent of the participants do not believe the IPCC report.”

    This new report issued by the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee's office of the GOP Ranking Member is the latest evidence of the growing groundswell of scientific opposition challenging significant aspects of the claims of the UN IPCC and Al Gore. Scientific meetings are now being dominated by a growing number of skeptical scientists. The prestigious International Geological Congress, dubbed the geologists' equivalent of the Olympic Games, was held in Norway in August 2008 and prominently featured the voices of scientists skeptical of man-made global warming fears. [See: Skeptical scientists overwhelm conference: '2/3 of presenters and question-askers were hostile to, even dismissive of, the UN IPCC' & see full reports here & here - Also see: UN IPCC's William Schlesinger admits in 2009 that only 20% of IPCC scientists deal with climate ]


    Even the mainstream media has begun to take notice of the expanding number of scientists serving as “consensus busters.” A November 25, 2008, article in Politico noted that a “growing accumulation” of science is challenging warming fears, and added that the “science behind global warming may still be too shaky to warrant cap-and-trade legislation.” Canada’s National Post noted on October 20, 2008, that “the number of climate change skeptics is growing rapidly.” New York Times environmental reporter Andrew Revkin noted on March 6, 2008, "As we all know, climate science is not a numbers game (there are heaps of signed statements by folks with advanced degrees on all sides of this issue)," Revkin wrote. (LINK) In 2007, Washington Post Staff Writer Juliet Eilperin conceded the obvious, writing that climate skeptics "appear to be expanding rather than shrinking."

    Skeptical scientists are gaining recognition despite what many say is a bias against them in parts of the scientific community and are facing significant funding disadvantages. Dr. William M. Briggs, a climate statistician who serves on the American Meteorological Society's Probability and Statistics Committee, explained that his colleagues described “absolute horror stories of what happened to them when they tried getting papers published that explored non-‘consensus’ views.” In a March 4, 2008, report Briggs described the behavior as “really outrageous and unethical … on the parts of some editors. I was shocked.” (LINK) [Note: An August 2007 report detailed how proponents of man-made global warming fears enjoy a monumental funding advantage over skeptical scientists. LINK A July 2007 Senate report details how skeptical scientists have faced threats and intimidation - LINK & LINK ]

    http://epw.senate.gov/public/index....ecord_id=2674e64f-802a-23ad-490b-bd9faf4dcdb7
     
  4. MannieD

    MannieD New Member

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    Really? Care to explain this:
    [​IMG]

    source`

    "The true measure of the energy isn't even TSI it is the integration of TSI. The total area under the curve. Which for the warming period has been higher than ever recorded." What?????
    What a bunch of doo doo! The integration only applies if the earth loses no energy to space and collects all the energy that is radiated by the sun.

    It seems you are trying to take advantage of the "assumption that the common man has a poor understanding of calculus"
     
  5. Gaar

    Gaar New Member

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    interesting you chose that one...

    http://lasp.colorado.edu/sorce/data/tsi_data.htm#summary_table
     
  6. MannieD

    MannieD New Member

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  7. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Got any links to back that up??
     
  8. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Puh-leese! The Senate Minority Report? Do some googling on it

    Don't take my word that is a crock of Shyte - do some googling and while you are at it google the senator behind it - James "Coal mining companies are my best friends" Inhofe
     
  9. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    I simply know this:

    Average temps in the USA (on average) are 20 to thirty degrees higher than average. We had no winter and are begining our summer boil very early this year.

    The lakes (where I lived in Indiana) had very little, or no ice this year. It would get 6 to 8 inches thick in the late sixties.

    The earth is getting warmer...just like a greenhouse in the sunlight.
    Long wave infrared radiation travels through the atmosphere and is absorbed and radiated back as long wave infrared radiation. This is trapped in the atmosphere by "bouncing off" the CO2 and methane in the atmosphere. Just like the plastic or glass panes in a greenhouse.

    It is a pretty simple concept.

    What may be happening now is a "cleaning" of particulate matter out of the atmosphere. This could possibly add to the greenhouse effect.

    Evaporation studies could help confirm this.

    If the evaporation rate is on the increase...the air is less polluted with particulate matter. And the problem would increse at a faster pace.
     
  10. Anarcho-Technocrat

    Anarcho-Technocrat New Member

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    Google is a search engine, it doesn't carry out experiments and analyze data. Who knows one day it might.
     
  11. Anarcho-Technocrat

    Anarcho-Technocrat New Member

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    So there isn't 700 dissenting scientists on AGW? Everyone just accepts the current knowledge on global warming without challenging it by doing more experiments? Right cause that's how scientific communities function....
     
  12. Anarcho-Technocrat

    Anarcho-Technocrat New Member

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    Gaar's link is great evidence in support of increased solar activity. It includes the publications, data analysis, and models used. It seems that their is a positive slope regarding TSI.
     
  13. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    ((((((((((((((sigh))))))))))))))))

    You didn't bother checking it out for yourself did you?

    Oh! Well! Sorry but my free education time has already been used today - you will have to complete this assignment by yourself
     
  14. Gaar

    Gaar New Member

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    Really?

    Seems to me, if you look at the one I provided, it explains everything fairly easily.

    Even the little Ice Age, when the Sun seemed to go "dormant" for a spell.

    The one you show does not have the "average" that has been put there. Most people can see that it has actually been very steady to maybe just slightly downward. BUt in order to get that you had to get rid of the ones prior that would have shown a slightly upward trend.

    But I am not surprised you would attempt to spin it like that.

    Most people will look at the long term one and understand exactly what was being said. You however don't seem to get it, and likely never will.
     
  15. Gaar

    Gaar New Member

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    Again, nothing but an Ad Hominem attack from you.

    Such Bull never seems to end with you.
     
  16. Gaar

    Gaar New Member

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    Any halfway intelligent person can plainly see that.

    I guess some here aren't even halfway intelligent.

    I am not surprised.
     
  17. Gaar

    Gaar New Member

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    Actually yes, I supplied a link that shows exactly what he was saying.

    I am not surprised you can't address the FACTS!!!
     
  18. Gaar

    Gaar New Member

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    And yet, just a couple of years ago...

    http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2010/January/Much-of-US-Faces-Record-Cold-Winter/

    Tuesday, January 05, 2010

    This week the United States is facing what could be its worst winter in 25 years.

    Whether buried under a colossal record 33 inches of snow in Vermont or braving the unseasonably low temperatures blanketing the South, the bitter cold and snow has left millions of Americans in a deep freeze.

    "I'm miserable," one woman said. "I don't understand why people live this far north. It's so cold right now. It's awful."

    The snow extended Christmas vacation for some children. For others whose classes weren't canceled, moms and dads made sure they were dressed to keep warm.

    "Put on plenty of layers for him," Chicago mom Aivana Kendall said. "I told him 'put on your long johns,' and reminded him to put on his gloves. I don't know what happened this morning. We were rushing out."

    Meanwhile, homeless shelters across the country, like a Salvation Army shelter in Florida, are preparing for full houses.

    "They'll be given a hot dinner and a mat on the floor and a blanket and breakfast in the morning," the Salvation Army's Sally Gress said.

    For Vietnam veteran Frederick Bowman, who lives on the streets of Chicago, the effort to stay warm is nothing new.

    "I usually end up going to McDonalds. Get some coffee. Go to the train station as long as security don't mess with me until I get warm. Use their hand warmers in the bathroom. But it's all just temporary," Bowman said.

    The deep freeze has also settled in all along the East Coast.

    In the nation's capital, temperatures have been below normal for the past week or more and will likely stay that way for at least another week.

    "The wind chill makes it a little bit biting sometimes, but it's definitely cold," said one resident.

    While residents in Houston were dancing in the streets and braving the coldest Texas winter in 14 years, Florida farmers are bracing for more cold weather.

    "We'll be watering and praying," farmer John Alger said.

    Below-freezing temperatures are threatening to destroy strawberry and citrus crops from Louisiana to the Florida panhandle.

    "I've already made it through this morning," Alger said. "We had cloud cover. We only hit 39 degrees - not bad. It's Wednesday morning that we're very concerned."

    But this cold snap is unusually long. Florida farmers are preparing to fight for their crops all week as the low temperatures keep their crops at risk.
     
  19. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    DUH!!

    But you seem to have missed the point - the point is to SEARCH for ANSWERS

    Not try to do science experiments

    You DO know you can use it to search scientific literature - you know as in "peer reviewed articles" and "science journals"??
     
  20. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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  21. Gaar

    Gaar New Member

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    Ad Hominem is the term used when someone attacks the source of the information rather than the information itself.

    I am sorry you don't understand that, but you do it all the time. I guess you are just admitting you can't address any of what has been offered and you simply need it to go away.

    How about you address the points they make rather than attempt to make me do your bidding? I can understand why you might not like to have to address the information, because it blows a hole in your side of this disacussion.
     
  22. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    We have been over this before and I refuse to derail another thread with this

    Now I have given you a link to Sen Inhofe's income and once again INVITE you to search for further information yourself as it is patently obvious you will not believe me
     
  23. Anarcho-Technocrat

    Anarcho-Technocrat New Member

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    That doesn't help you "understand" what you are reading unfortunetly.
     
  24. Anarcho-Technocrat

    Anarcho-Technocrat New Member

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    uhhh cool story bro? Would you like to tell it again?
     
  25. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    As witnessed by the number of denialists here who seemingly cannot read a research paper - otherwise we would not be seeing such stupid claims as "scientists have not taken water vapour into account" or "It's the fault of the sun" or the latest idiocy

    "The climate is changing coz it just, you know, it just DOES"
     

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