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Thread: Pakistan tribesmen warn collaborators.

  1. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ98 View Post
    I feel like I'm talking to an autistic 6 year old here.

    The Taliban and the Mujaheddin are two different groups. The US never supported the Taliban during the Soviet occupation because the Taliban did not exist during that time. The Taliban only emerged AFTER the Soviets left Afghanistan. The Mujaheddin (which was a loose alliance of international, as well as local fighters) disbanded after the Soviet occupation ended. Some of these fighters returned to home their respective countries. Some went to the Balkans to fight against Milosevic. Others decided to stay in Afghanistan who eventually formed various tribes and groups that began warring against each other for dominance in the region. The Taliban was one of those groups that later formed after the Soviet occupation. Please get your basic facts straights. Its not that hard.

    The issue of Pakistan and the US government's handling of the Taliban today is much more complicated than the kindergarten version you just explained to me. You seem to fail at grasping some of the basic problems that exist between the three groups and their roles in this war. I could try explaining it to you, but I doubt I would get much through to you.
    The Taliban morphed, pay attention MORPHED from the Mujahadeen many Taliban members were also once members of the Mujagadeen that the USA supported through Pakistan.

    It is not very difficult to understand that the involvement of the USA with Afghanistan was mainly to defeat the Soviets and the USA fulfilled their obligation to the Mujahadeens, after that it is up to the Afghans to rule their country and Pakistan supported 100% the Taliban and wanted the USA to continue to support them with billions of free $ to help the Taliban become the undisputed ruler of Afghanistan.

    History can not be deny, it is written and it is the fact.

    Are you denying that the USA have done so much to help the Mijahadeen through Pakistan to defeat the Soviets?

    Are you saying that after the USA have fulfilled their obligation in helping the Afghans defeat the Soviets, the USA should continue to pour billion of free $ to the Taliban or Pakistan?

    Are you saying that after the Taliban have retreated to Pakistan and the USA pour billions of free $ to Pakistan that Pakistan have no obligation to defeat the Taliban?

    Are you saying that it is the USA fault for trusting Pakistan?
    Abraham Lincoln: In regard to this Great Book, I have but to say, it is the best gift God has given to man. All the good the Savior gave to the world was communicated through this book. But for it we could not know right from wrong. All things most desirable for man's welfare, here and hereafter, are to be found portrayed in it.

  2. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WanRen View Post
    The Taliban morphed, pay attention MORPHED from the Mujahadeen many Taliban members were also once members of the Mujagadeen that the USA supported through Pakistan.

    It is not very difficult to understand that the involvement of the USA with Afghanistan was mainly to defeat the Soviets and the USA fulfilled their obligation to the Mujahadeens, after that it is up to the Afghans to rule their country and Pakistan supported 100% the Taliban and wanted the USA to continue to support them with billions of free $ to help the Taliban become the undisputed ruler of Afghanistan.

    History can not be deny, it is written and it is the fact.

    Are you denying that the USA have done so much to help the Mijahadeen through Pakistan to defeat the Soviets?

    Are you saying that after the USA have fulfilled their obligation in helping the Afghans defeat the Soviets, the USA should continue to pour billion of free $ to the Taliban or Pakistan?

    Are you saying that after the Taliban have retreated to Pakistan and the USA pour billions of free $ to Pakistan that Pakistan have no obligation to defeat the Taliban?

    Are you saying that it is the USA fault for trusting Pakistan?
    Its obvious that English is not you're first language. Although if it is, you have some really serious issues.

    But despite the fact that you can't write a single coherent sentence, its obvious you don't even have half of a decent understanding about the war in Afghanistan or the players involved. I'm not saying the United States didn't support the Mujaheddin during the Soviet occupation. I fully recognize that some members of the Mujaheddin later formed the Taliban. But what you don't seem to understand is that the Taliban and the Mujaheddin are two VERY different groups. The latter of which was only one of very many groups to sprout up in Afghanistan during the 80's and 90's. Which very few Mujaheddin fighters joined after Soviet occupation ended.

    Make no mistake Wanren, the United States gov't did not create the Taliban, or even Al Qaeda for that matter. Our involvement in Afghanistan during the Soviet occupation is not what started this war on terror. 9/11 was not a result of our meddling in Afghanistan during the 80's. the only connection between the Taliban and 9/11 is that they happened to harbor Bin Laden's group and wouldn't give him up when we asked politely.

    This conversation is getting so ridiculously detracted from the OP that I'm losing sight of what it is we are even talking about. Trying to decipher you're 5th grade writing level is giving me a headache. I would suggest that in the future you should get to know wikipedia and learn about something before talking about it. Either that or go find a message board that speaks your country's language please.

  3. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ98 View Post
    First, the Mujaheddin and the Taliban are two different entities. The United States never supplied the Taliban with arms or money during the Soviet Occupation, because the Taliban didn't really exist at that time. You can also save you're history lesson about Wilson and Pakistan's involvement because I know all about it already. However, I suspect you don't know what you are talking about. The US government is not trying to convert Afghanistan into a Western society. It is simply trying to help establish a stable government created by the Afghans, for the Afghans. Even if that includes bringing the Taliban back into the fold as they are obviously not going to simply go away.

    And one more thing, American support for the Mujaheddin started during the Carter administration shortly after the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. Wilson was really just a face to the whole operation as the Carter administration had already decided to provide material support for the rebels years prior.
    Thanks goodness there is someone else on this site who is prepared to challenge those, who by deliberately 'mixing' the Taliban with the Mujahadeen, push the Big Lie that the Taliban and the Americans were once partners in Afghanistan.The Mujahadeen were true freedom fighters, whilst the Taliban were no more than thugs, stuck in the slimy, misogynist mores of the Dark Ages.

  4. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by diligent View Post
    Thanks goodness there is someone else on this site who is prepared to challenge those, who by deliberately 'mixing' the Taliban with the Mujahadeen, push the Big Lie that the Taliban and the Americans were once partners in Afghanistan.The Mujahadeen were true freedom fighters, whilst the Taliban were no more than thugs, stuck in the slimy, misogynist mores of the Dark Ages.
    Pretty much. The United States didn't have anything to do with the establishment of the Taliban. The Taliban was largely propped up by Afghanistan's neighbors including Pakistan. The Taliban is nothing more than a political pawn of the larger powers in the region all fighting for greater influence. Wanren seems to be completely lost on who the Taliban are and when they were established. He doesn't even realize that the Mujaheddin didn't simply become the Taliban. Those who founded the Taliban only comprised of a small group within the Mujaheddin. The majority of the Mujaheddin left Afghanistan to fight in other wars, or returned home to live out their lives peacefully. Those that decided to stay in Afghanistan disbanded into several tribes and other groups who ended up battling each other for dominance in the country. I swear, wikipedia can be a great tool sometimes.

  5. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moon View Post
    When an invader is killing your neighbors and making illegal drone strikes into your own country - which kill your own soldiers and civilians - it is hardly surprising that any effort to assist them is going to receive short shrift from patriots.
    Would Pakistani lawmakers re-open supply routes to their country's enemies ? What would cause them to make such a decision ? Is the tribal threat to be taken seriously ?



    They really think so, eh ?
    its never ok for Americans to kill people in Pakistan for any reason but killing people in Pakistan is ok as long as your anti American nice

  6. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stig42 View Post
    its never ok for Americans to kill people in Pakistan for any reason
    Correct.

    but killing people in Pakistan is ok as long as your anti American nice
    You can determine the silliness of this yourself.
    The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ, .. Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
    Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line, ..Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.

    Omar Khayyam


    Zionism is criminal by default.

  7. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ98 View Post
    Its obvious that English is not you're first language. Although if it is, you have some really serious issues.

    But despite the fact that you can't write a single coherent sentence, its obvious you don't even have half of a decent understanding about the war in Afghanistan or the players involved. I'm not saying the United States didn't support the Mujaheddin during the Soviet occupation. I fully recognize that some members of the Mujaheddin later formed the Taliban. But what you don't seem to understand is that the Taliban and the Mujaheddin are two VERY different groups. The latter of which was only one of very many groups to sprout up in Afghanistan during the 80's and 90's. Which very few Mujaheddin fighters joined after Soviet occupation ended.

    Make no mistake Wanren, the United States gov't did not create the Taliban, or even Al Qaeda for that matter. Our involvement in Afghanistan during the Soviet occupation is not what started this war on terror. 9/11 was not a result of our meddling in Afghanistan during the 80's. the only connection between the Taliban and 9/11 is that they happened to harbor Bin Laden's group and wouldn't give him up when we asked politely.

    This conversation is getting so ridiculously detracted from the OP that I'm losing sight of what it is we are even talking about. Trying to decipher you're 5th grade writing level is giving me a headache. I would suggest that in the future you should get to know wikipedia and learn about something before talking about it. Either that or go find a message board that speaks your country's language please.
    Indeed, English is not my first language, still I am able to understand simple English that many English people seem to have a hard time understanding.

    As I have pointed out and you have said, the Taliban morphed from the Mujahadeen, the USA support for the Afghans during the 80s was mainly to defeat the Soviets. The USA pour millions of $ through Pakistan to arm and train Afghan fighters (Mujahadeen) to fight the Soviets with American weapons the Afghans succeeded in defeating the Soviets.

    After the Soviets left, the USA draw back their support as well and left everything to Pakistan and the Afghans to secure and rule Afghanistan.

    As you have pointed out that the USA should have continue to support the Afghans and Pakistan after the Soviets left without emphasizing in what way?

    I agree, the Taliban is not a creation of the USA, the USA interest was only the Soviets. The USA have done their part in helping the Afghan through Pakistan to defeat the Soviets now you want the USA to continue to support Pakistan in strengthening the Taliban?

    The USA have already donated billions of $ to Afghanistan and Pakistan and so far nothing constructive has happen, the USA is being blackmail and or double cross into thinking that Pakistan will help Afghanistan to become a stable nation.

    Pakistan wants Afghanistan for their own, and Pakistan is stretching their influence in that region to become a super power of some sort to challenge India. And they have been exploiting the USA with this Muslim threat to blackmail the USA to continue to give them free money.

    Bush trusted the Pakistan government that is why he redirected his attention to Iraq, Bush thought that the Pakistani will handle the Taliban that has been successfully driven to Pakistan, it didn't happen. The Taliban has now re-group, re-arm and is stronger they are now dictating to the Pakistani government on Afghan policies not the other way around.

    Who are the collaborators here, the Taliban for collaborating against the Pakistani government or the Pakistani government for collaborating with the Taliban?
    Last edited by WanRen; Mar 28 2012 at 09:09 AM.
    Abraham Lincoln: In regard to this Great Book, I have but to say, it is the best gift God has given to man. All the good the Savior gave to the world was communicated through this book. But for it we could not know right from wrong. All things most desirable for man's welfare, here and hereafter, are to be found portrayed in it.

  8. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WanRen View Post
    Indeed, English is not my first language, still I am able to understand simple English that many English people seem to have a hard time understanding.

    As I have pointed out and you have said, the Taliban morphed from the Mujahadeen, the USA support for the Afghans during the 80s was mainly to defeat the Soviets. The USA pour millions of $ through Pakistan to arm and train Afghan fighters (Mujahadeen) to fight the Soviets with American weapons the Afghans succeeded in defeating the Soviets.

    After the Soviets left, the USA draw back their support as well and left everything to Pakistan and the Afghans to secure and rule Afghanistan.

    As you have pointed out that the USA should have continue to support the Afghans and Pakistan after the Soviets left without emphasizing in what way?

    I agree, the Taliban is not a creation of the USA, the USA interest was only the Soviets. The USA have done their part in helping the Afghan through Pakistan to defeat the Soviets now you want the USA to continue to support Pakistan in strengthening the Taliban?

    The USA have already donated billions of $ to Afghanistan and Pakistan and so far nothing constructive has happen, the USA is being blackmail and or double cross into thinking that Pakistan will help Afghanistan to become a stable nation.

    Pakistan wants Afghanistan for their own, and Pakistan is stretching their influence in that region to become a super power of some sort to challenge India. And they have been exploiting the USA with this Muslim threat to blackmail the USA to continue to give them free money.

    Bush trusted the Pakistan government that is why he redirected his attention to Iraq, Bush thought that the Pakistani will handle the Taliban that has been successfully driven to Pakistan, it didn't happen. The Taliban has now re-group, re-arm and is stronger they are now dictating to the Pakistani government on Afghan policies not the other way around.

    Who are the collaborators here, the Taliban for collaborating against the Pakistani government or the Pakistani government for collaborating with the Taliban?
    I don't even know what it is you are arguing anymore. I'm not really interested in the history lesson because I already know about the US government's role during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. Of course we left after the Soviets were defeated. Why would we stay and nation build? Our goal was to simply aid Afghanistan in turning the conflict into a bloody and costly endeavor for the Soviets. In that regards we succeeded.

    And yeah we give millions of dollars to Pakistan. Not as if they need that money to survive though. Its more or less a gesture of goodwill and sincere desire to establish a partnership with them. The US government supplies aid to many countries, some of whom you could even consider enemies.

  9. #39
    Location: Past the edge of the universe, through the singularity, and out the other side.
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moon View Post
    Correct.
    No it's perfectly acceptable to kill the enemy hiding out in Pakistan; such as, Taliban and AQ operatives it is they not us who started the war so as always stop blaming the victims who defend themselves from the aggression of the Islamic Imperialist swine.

  10. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ98 View Post
    I don't even know what it is you are arguing anymore. I'm not really interested in the history lesson because I already know about the US government's role during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. Of course we left after the Soviets were defeated. Why would we stay and nation build? Our goal was to simply aid Afghanistan in turning the conflict into a bloody and costly endeavor for the Soviets. In that regards we succeeded.

    And yeah we give millions of dollars to Pakistan. Not as if they need that money to survive though. Its more or less a gesture of goodwill and sincere desire to establish a partnership with them. The US government supplies aid to many countries, some of whom you could even consider enemies.
    And in that regards we can not blame the USA for the trouble that exist now in Afghanistan. The USA have go and above what is required to help Pakistan and Afghanistan, since the 80s the USA have not received a single cent from Pakistan for the billions of $ the USA have poured into Afghanistan and Pakistan, and now they want more money????

    As I said, the reason why the USA got directly involved in Afghanistan was because of 9/11 and the fact that since the USA is being compel to spend more billions $ on Afghanistan it is best that the USA mould Afghanistan base on Western society, but as we can see it is not happening because the USA trusted Pakistan to do their part in defeating the Taliban now we have the Taliban dictating the terms to Pakistan, Afghanistan and the USA!

    The USA have to decide, if they are serious in Afghanistan then they should lunch a massive attack on Taliban bases in Afghanistan and Pakistan. The USA have shown that the Taliban can be defeated when the entire Taliban forces just in one week were driven out of Afghanistan by USA-UN and Afghan-Northern Alliance forces back in 2001. The pressure should not be on the USA it should be on Pakistan, Pakistan need to decide if they are allies to the USA or to the Taliban. A final D Day has to be carry out or else the Afghan war will just get drag on for another 50 years.
    Last edited by WanRen; Mar 29 2012 at 09:41 AM.
    Abraham Lincoln: In regard to this Great Book, I have but to say, it is the best gift God has given to man. All the good the Savior gave to the world was communicated through this book. But for it we could not know right from wrong. All things most desirable for man's welfare, here and hereafter, are to be found portrayed in it.

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