The european PIGS economies are crumbling get ready for GFC 2.0 SPAIN GONE!

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/apr2012/spai-a19.shtml

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&r...-5CxBA&usg=AFQjCNFXBTG2K1zFw8p0hzeoIKa94vi7ug

Oh did you forget about Europe and nthe unraveling Capitialist EU,bugger,always US 'recovery centric'arn't we its called nationalism and it is blind,


Wow ,Not-NEWSFLASH Spain is doing a Greece only problem spain is a really Big economy unlike tiny Greece,its happening in Western Europe the engine room is collapsing ,lets just add Italy ,Ireland next to pop,

sorry about that "US spluttering recovery'based on paracitic capitialism ,just as you developed for 3months you suffer another GFC.Oh dear oh my.

Time to call a economic depression by its right name ,see until the actual problem is accepted and Identified then denial is all that can develop.

And any economist that now denigh's that the phenomena economically we are all living through isn't a DEPRESSION is not an economist but a sharlaten.

Lets see spain is the 5th largest European economy,http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&r...8Kz3Aw&usg=AFQjCNGryyMK4frY6_6Q-8oo1LN5dMPWWw ,now is it 1.Germany,2.France,3.gt britian,4.Italy[pigs] 5.Spain [pigs]


So if we add the Pigs in the capitialist pig pen called the EU,would that be the 1st or 2nd biggest non economies of european nature?????

i recok no 2.Pigs!

bit of a worry that!

Capitalist pigs should be Nationalised sorry,"Continentalised ". and a European Workers Government established ,Capitialism has failed the peoples of Europe .

 

It's not a failure of capitalism. It's a failure of accountability.

Between excessive welfare spending, excessive public worker benefits, and vast amounts of banking corruption, the EU is headed for hard times.

America has similar problems, particularly when it comes to our banking sector.

 

So its an accoutants conspiracy not the type of economic syaytem ie;CAPITIALIST MARKET ECONOMY,which is what is common to both europe and the USA and hey the rest of the global economy ,its the capitialist market mechanism thats Broken and collapsing ,economics 101.Capitialism is the form of economy that dominates everywhere and whatever society that it gives rise to is called a Capitialist Based class division based ,exploitation of the Working class based ,wage slavery based Capitialist Society .

Expressed in Politics as the modern Capitialist Nation State system .for the more crudely and less politiocal science educated ,your own Capitialist government thats lying to and thieveing you blind,I agree with one form of cutting welfare ,lets STOP Religion Welfare.Every corporation should pay tax even Gods.

No blame can be put on a single worker on this Planet ,we are not to blame the CAPITIALIST CLASS and its quissling governments are!


or you maybe right and the worlds accountants are the representatives of evil and the devil even!

And they think we are that stupid we don't notice that the $7 trillion that Obama handed out for Corporate welfare in 2008-9,is now being recuperated through Wage cuts ,lockouts and the gutting of social security .Impoverishment of pensioners the sick and dying.gee must be proud thing being a money grubbing society that values human living condiditions with such dismissiveness

 

Tell me Economic Depression is your analysis or go away silly person.I have no more time for the ignorant ramblings of those that non-think about is it a ,double dip recession ,or the 'greatest recession since 1929,recession'or the whatever recession .

Before we continue can we state what is straight there in existance already ,the Greatest economic Depression in world history ,which BTW ,hasn't finished with the GLOBAL ECONOMIC CRISIS [Depression] see that is the Accurate definition of the Start of a Economic Depression[GFC} we don't nor ever have described the normal up down boom bust cycle of Recession boom as a GFC.


Normal thinking scientifically minded people use GFC to describe the big 'D" word.


BTW,Greece has defaulted as Spain will now ,followed by Italy next ,or am I making it up a commo plot or something.

 

Newsflash ,the government and the media are not telling the truth when they describe the current and contiuing GFC as a recession of any size ,it has dialexctically leaped from a accumulation of all quantative crisis of the past and the policies of denial ,into a Qualatatively different phenomena called economic Depressions.

GFC ,or Depressions of the 1929 and 1890's types lead directly in the next historical period to Wars and Revolutions.


As the Political Parties representing the capitialist class [re Governments of all types presently in power]are in terminal crisis and disintergration internally ,and new muti millioned battalions of the working class coming into existance in china and asia generally,combative and without the last century of trade unionist tradition on their backs.and all the pro capitialist crap that goes with trade unions.


i reckon ,in fact history tells us that the REVOLUTION of the Proletariet gets first go not WW3.

Hey brevik you stinking anti-communist we are coming maggot you and your mates,we will hunt them down and dispatch you Fascist.oh dear the Opposite of Brevik type human is Communist and proud .We kill as in dead fascist scum like Brevfik kids and if we establish a workers government then these types are exterminated as should have been the case in 1946 on .......Hunt them down and execute .

Just like Dad Mum and the rest of the working class liked to do in 1939-45.Mum ,all my uncles ,Dad,and all the working class friends they had.
Old school Fascist killing is Cool school.

Brevik the new face of Capitilist politics.

Yes .for all the economist toadies of Capitialism and their political masters to admit that a Depression exists is to amit Capitialism is a deadend historically and threatens the existance of humanity with its continued Uncontrolled anarchistic market mechanism of production and distribution of wealth.the 19th century model economy is useless in the 21st century computerised economy.


Now after me repeat the capitialist brain wash ,"you must not say the 'D" word the' D' word means failure ,WW3,we must not at any cost in Relationship to economic analysis say the 'D" word '" repeat 100 times and we will give you a dgree in economics ,100 000 times gets you the Nobel prize in economics.

 

Spain bankrupt ,Italy Bankrupt ,greece Bankrupt ,nothing to see move on nothing to see ,means nothing itds Ok Rupert Murdoch says ,twit him he will tell you It s ok just a hicup ,PIGS are flying down a economic Blackhole called the EU.Forward to the United Socialist States of Europe ,its time, Capitialism has gone loooooppyyy.

Austerity ok try this word against Austerity ,SOCIALISM!

Long tradition socialist thinking in its birthplace EUROPE!

Well organised thoughtfull workers in Europe ,as well as long tradition of KICKING THE CRAP out of GOVERNMENTS and the Police that defend them.

Kick a cop a day keep the Depression away ,doesn't take many and the rest will run just like Egypt.

Down with the stupid ignorant ,Conservative governments of the IMF in Europe.

 

What you're viewing is a common but flawed version of capitalism known as crony capitalism. When big business uses the state to block competition and bail itself out, it's no longer a free market.

But the real point of contention here is that proper regulation of banking prevents disasters like the one we saw a few years ago.

Canada has a much more sensible banking system than the U.S. and the EU, and they never really felt the crash the way we did. Australia is similar. Norway is as well.

So, it's clearly not capitalism or socialism that is the problem -- it's having a banking system that is corrupt that is the bulk of the problem.

 

You're right, and it's also a repetition of the total failure of Socialism. The crisis in Greece is not "over" by any means -- the internationalist central bankers in the ECB, the IMF, and the American Federal Reserve crime syndicate simply kicked the Grecian "can" down the road, which is already cluttered with "cans".

Spain is next! And its economy is much larger than that of Greece... and this forthcoming Spanish economic failure will also be treated with more "can-kicking" by the bankers. After that it will be Portugal, followed by Italy! The ECB, the IMF, and the US Federal Reserve are already planning to "print" even more worthless money (about 1 Trillion Euros) to fund the new emergency round of can-kicking for Spain....

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,823872,00.html

http://www.zerohedge.com/contribute...hing-its-breaking-point-right-spain-starts-im

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2012/04/spain-would-be-dead-without-ecb-loans.html

Why should Americans care? Because the F-ing Federal Reserve System keeps on dragging our miserably weak economy into the economic affairs of these irresponsible European socialist countries! Fed. Chairman Bernanke and his insider-henchmen engineered "exchange" processes by which American dollars were given for nearly worthless Euro-denominated debt, bonds, and other "toxic" crap that nobody wants on their books!

http://thismatter.com/money/banking/central-bank-transactions.htm

Idiot Bush appointed Bernanke to his post as Fed. Chairman, and Idiot Obama reappointed Bernanke after he had been in office only about six months, and after Obama had squandered another $100 Billion+ Dollars with "loans" to save the International Monetary Fund (IMF): http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/04/20/us-usa-imf-idUSTRE53J6NH20090420

Look for even more reckless, irresponsible "printing" of worthless Euros and US Dollars in the weeks and months ahead to keep the "fraud-balloon recovery" alive with even more can-kicking. We are fools to have ever let central banks take over the economies of the world!

 

I agree with most of what you're saying, but it's not socialism itself that is the problem.

Scandinavian countries are considerably more socialist than Greece or Portugal, but they're doing far better economically than either of them. It's a matter of how you budget your social programs and collect taxes.

The shadow economy in Greece is huge. The same is true for Portugal, Italy, and Spain. This means entire sectors of industry aren't paying the proper amount in taxes. Shadow economies are pretty small and insignificant in most of Northern Europe, and as a result, proper tax collection allows them to properly fund their social programs and amenities.

More than anything, it's a matter of culture. Southern Europe just doesn't have the the same work ethic and civic ethic as Northern Europe, and so their systems don't function as well.

Combining elements of socialism and capitalism can work very well as a system, but it requires that the people are honest in paying taxes and that they work hard and find living off of the system to be shameful.

 

You all are missing the big picture. Germany is perpetuating this on purpose. They are in the process of going for Western Europe again and have learned that militarily they cannot succeed so now they are doing it through economics. Once these country's eventually hit bottom you will see Germany sweep in.

Mark this post down as its a forewarning of what is going to happen. It will start with one country and go on from there.

 

Call it what you want - capitalism, crony capitalism, socialism, communism, etc., when the elites and power brokers in any system hire the legislators and guarantee themselves big cash and privilege at the expense of everyone else, the game is over. It happened in the old Soviet Union. It started with Reagan here and ended 4 years ago. Game, set, match. Start growing your own vegetables and chickens.

 

I think overzealous socialism does factor in to the problem but your use of the term is much too broad and vague.

I think we can have roads, police and military (all socialist) without breaking the bank. Fiscal irresponsibility and bad legislation contribute in a big way.

The second issue has little to do with socialism and more to do with a complete failure of the Fed, Central banks, and the Government to control spending and manage Capitalism.

Reversing laws put in place in the 1920's allowed for highly leveraged gambling by banks and finanial institutions. These banks were able to invest or lend out money at up to 40 times what they had in deposits. (This has zero to do with socialism and everything to do with out of control Fed policy and bad legislation).

These banks then started to issue insurance (Credit default swaps). These CDS instruments allowed investors to insure 100,000 (in mortgage backed securities for example) for as little as 1000 or less. If the MBS devaults the 1000 dollar swap pays out 100,000. Insitutions such as AIG were selling these things like crazy. In essense this was free money because "the housing market would never go down".

Those buying the swaps do not have to own the underlying asset ( like house insurance) .. so there was no limit no how many of these CDS's could be issued. There was no oversight, and little tracking.

Then Bush allowed the retail sector to get into the game. Regular Banks (rather than holding the mortgage until maturity and collecting interest but also being on the hook for the risk) could now sell these mortgages off, make a quick profit and not be exposed to any risk.

Banks and mortgage institutions no longer cared about credit worthyness because they were no longer on the hook if the loan went bad. They could actually get a higher commission on really credit unworthy folks because the interest rates were higher (often with clauses where the interest rate went to double or more after 3 years which guaranteed default)

Interest rates were then lowered, the money supply increased and this added extra fuel to

The sad thing is it is not like this exact same type of thing had not happened before. (hence why the laws in the 1920's were put in place to begin with).

Watching Politicians and Fed heads stand around after the fact shaking their heads claiming "we didn't know" was preposterous.

They did know. They knew exactly what they were doing.. they knew a bubble would be created and that it would burst .. as bubbles always do.

It was a short term payday for a long term collapse.

Revenues decreased from 2.7 Trillion down to 2.1 Trillion after the 2008 crash and they have not recovered. This is no surprise because the extra revenue generated was due to a false economy.

The debt bubble is another bubble that will burst .. as they always do. These take a bit longer to play out but the end is always the same.

The economies of the last 3 world economic empires (Spanish Dutch, British) all went into major decline roughly 20-25 years after going off Gold.
In each case, as soon there was nothing of intrinsic value backing the paper, there was nothing to stop debt creation and that is exactly what happened.

The US dollar went completely off Gold in 1972-73. It was not just the US that started the money party but every advanced country. Canada for example had a debt of around 8 billion. After 8 years it was 200 Billion .. and 8 more years it was 400 Billion. We fared no better.

The Dow topped in Jan/Feb of 2000 (at 12,000 .. in constant dollars this is still higher than the 2008 top of 14,000). That is roughly 27 years after going off gold.

We beat the average by a couple of years but this is only because the debt wave is much bigger than it was in the previous cases.

To give a reference using the last economic Empire. In the early part of the 1900's Britain's economy was roughly equal to that of the US. A few decades later the US economy was 25 x that of Britain.

The debt bubble will burst, (I give it 5 to 10 years max), and the prominence and dominance of the US in the world will deminish at an increasingly rapid pace.

Britain is still around .. and they are a major player in world affairs (or at least they pretend to be) . .but no where what they once were.

Those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it.

 

The eurozone economy is expected to recover slightly in 2013 and the IMF said swift fiscal integration was needed in the eurozone to avert another credit crunch but conservatives in the UK and Germany would oppose any further move to allow Brussels to regulate EU member states' financial matters. The weaker eurozone economies should make further efforts to cut government deficits to win investors' confidence on their ability to honour their financial commitments, which would allow them to finance themselves in the market at an affordable cost. Another option for Greece would be to engineer an “orderly default”, allowing Athens to withdraw simultaneously from the eurozone and reintroduce its national currency at a debased rate. Investors' lack of confidence lies in the fact that EU countries have fewer monetary policy choices because they cannot print money in their own currencies to pay debt holders.

 

You dont have a clue. Thats what Fannie and Freddie have done since their inception. Allow banks to sell these motgages they had originated off to Fannie and Freddie.

 

We have three potential known economy killing disasters this summer, war with Iran, war with North Korea and the crash of the EU...Of the three I see only a EU crash as likely....

Worse, BoBo is too inept to deal with any effectively. His every effort is to put off the disasters till after the election.

 

It is rather convenient that economic disaster in a socialist state can be blamed on the poor companies and evil capitalists who were regulated and nit picked into failure. The left learned when the Soviet Empire fell that it is much easier to maintain power when one can take credit for improving economies yet blame others for failures brought on by politics and stupid regulation. Being a Socialist does not make one immured to the laws of economics, not to mention math.

 

sweep in with what?

 

I think Gifted is making a reference to the repeal of Glass-Steagall, but that was in 1999 under Clinton (and a Republican Congress).

 

You could be right. These germans currently run the entire western banking system as it is. Could be manipulating it's [inevitable] crash in order to sweep up the leftovers in the form of debt remittance and loans that prolong the slow death. As we all know by now, debt is the life blood of western economics.

 

lets grant what you say as bei9ng correct for the moment,

Good Capitialist economy =Australia,Canada and Norway have their provlems not out of the woods and tittering on collapse ,australia is a case inj point without the mining boom ,which is pettering out btw,then the Australian economy would be in free fall .i am sure the same applies to Canada and the boom in petroleum production but ,for the sake of argument say they are different and well managed .

The other 96% of the Gobal economy is Crony Capitialism without hope of reform .

So I think one is safe saying that crony or parasite capitialism is the dominant in fact overwhelmingly dominant form of Capitialist accumulation .PARASITIC CAPITALISM is dying Capitialism ,in fact its dying society as a whole .

And a fantastic reason to have a Revolution against Capitialism in the form of its Governments.

BTW,the only reason the Australian econjomy did so 'Well" and that is relative to total collapses like Greece ,Ireland,Iceland ,Spain ,Portugual ,and Italy is because the Government Guarranteed all Private Bank borrowing with the Nations wealth contained within the treasury and Reserve bank .

They offered the nation as Collateral to the money markets .Now some may call that a treacherous act ,personally I think all the big 4 banks should be Nationalised and their wealth seized for the Nation as a whole.

Yes the Government ,Rudd at the time acted very decisively in the intrests of their capitialist Crony mates in the banking sector no doubt about it.

 

Excuse me those that call the US Government a Socialist government or Obama a Socialist president ,have absolutely no Credibility at all .

Socialism exists nowhere in the USA except in the Working Class and its party the SEP.

Obama a socialist ,he probably could'nt even spell it let alone know what it is .Unbelieveable ignorance now denotes US society ,the way capitialism rules actually ,Keep them starved and keep them stupid.

it amazes me everyday how arrogant ,humans living in the USA are of politics its as if you are talking to a bunch of children who have just woken up to the fact that politics as in Ideas not money exists.

sorry but if you associate with the USA you are by definition politically ignorant as pig poo.And we must unfortunately dismiss most of what any American thinks or says.

It has been a policy from your governemt for decades to keep you backward and ignorant and it really shows .

Now if you want to change and learn about the Political culture that has been going on outside the USA the land of money not idea based politics ,then you all have to relise the criminal brain washing that previous and present US Governments carry out everyday in every way .


its called ,Identity Politics ,Multiculturalism as well as Mono culturalism ,anything but the real nature of human culture Uniculturalism or Socialism by another name .

The low level of Political and economic conciousness in the USA is legendary ,look at the Non political candidates ,nothing but vicious personal attacks ,defining leaders by their religious affiliations as if that means anything ,and not Ideas or prespective ,no ,he who raises the most money for negative say nothing Adds on TV wins.

See in the classical definiton of what is Politics ,its Ideas and perspective that counts not money.Money dosen't think humans do .And thats the crisis of American Non-politics ,thats the Non politics of the "Offical circles 'verses the politics of the Impoverished masses.

 

Few of you see that the collapse of the EU ensures the end of US hegemony .You are bankrupt now , but allowed to trade as the lender of last resort and because pricking the US bubble tanks the global system on the spot .
Obama cannot influence matters The dice was guaranteed to roll this way from around 2004-5 and nothing but nothing can stop it .
Anybody thinking US Debt is only ca, $16.5 trillion is uninformed . Gross debt is around $100 trillion .
The day the first big bank goes under in Europe is the day that half a dozen global US banks go under from contagion .
Bank of America , or Wells Fargo or Citi Bank ? Or all three ? It's academic .
One last piece of QE , and coming soon , will be the last delaying tactic remaining .
For anybody interested in how the EU is fire walling Italy and Spain short term , I can tell you that some of the most creative and dishonest Banking ever publicly carried out , has been taking places under your noses since December .
Details in another Topic if I can muster the enthusiasm .

 

Please do not show total ignorance of political history by equating Social democracy with Socialism they left the Socialist fold when they all supported the First imperialist War ,imposed the great depression on the backs of the European Working Class and then lined up again supporting the second Capitialist Imperialist War 1939-45 .

Say the word revolution to these people and you get the same response as from Rupert Murdoch.If you iterveiwed every Social democrat leader or otherwise .and siad are you a socialist they would all answer are you insane ,no way Socialism is dead.

No country in Scandinavia,is socialist nor has ever been ,unless you use the Stalinist definition of socialism ,bet you didn't think you argeed with one Joseph Stalin Hey thats how politics works ,Stalinism Advaces the fantasy that 'Socialism can be built in a single country"so watch which bed fellows may appear under your sheets.


if the socialist Revolution in Europe 1917-33 had been sucessful then and only then would socialism exist in what is now called Scandinavia ,socialism is predicated on the revolutionary overthrow of capitialism and the establishment of Workers governments as part of the Revolutions extension internationally ,that means the United Socialist States of Europe,not the Capitialist Trap called the EU.


See the difference USSE vs EU.


The first an Intergrated political and Economic system without National borders or national government ,the other a mad house of competing nations under a hegemony of German and French Capitialism.


Doomed from formation .

 

Just because you say so does not make it so...If it walks like a Socialist, governs like a Socialist and blames others for failure like a socialist, it is a socialist regardless of what its fellow travelers call it.

Oh, and Australia is its own continent, there is no such a thing as Australia Asia...

 

ok numb nuts ,when someone who has a 30year history as a socialist ,thats before we ever heard of you ,30 YEARS are you 30 yet ,no you are not KID,BOY,.


That be as it may are you American then what you say about geography ,well lets say its embarrasing ignorance.


AUSTRALIA IS NOT A CONTINENT ,AUSTRALASIA IS!

And that means South =Austral Asia = well even one as ignorant as an American concerning geography should work that out !


We also have things called Atlas's ,Australia is an Island by the way.