The logic behind the Obamacare tax issue, and Obama's lack of integrity

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Consmike, Jul 2, 2012.

  1. Consmike

    Consmike New Member Past Donor

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    Follow me here.

    The Obamacare mandate was upheld on the grounds that it is a tax.

    Obama and the left over the past few days when asked were stating that Obamacare is not a tax.

    So, if the Obamacare tax was ruled, as indeed a tax, and the left are stating it is not a tax, the logical and honorable thing to do, considering Obama is supposedly a constitutional expert, would be for them to repeal the current law, and replace it with a bill that would in fact, be stated as the mandate as a tax.

    But, we won't hear anyone say that, because no matter what it is ruled, or what spin is put on it, Obamacare is a tax, as per the USSC, and not a penalty, as they say it is.
     
  2. Sent

    Sent New Member

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    [​IMG]

    ...

    There was no spin on it, Verrilli argued months ago during oral arguments regarding the mandate being considered a tax. Robert's agreed with him. Anyone who has read the Affordable Care Act is capable of plainly seeing that the mandate was going to be enforced through the IRS. That portion has been known for YEARS. This is why it was modeled after Romneycare.

    None of this is a new development. You conservatives simply failed to read/understand what you were opposing. No more tears please.
     
  3. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They will have their cake and eat it too.

    They, don't have an ounce of character or integrity.

    As is always, the means justify the ends.
     
  4. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvE6zp6HMMg
     
  5. Consmike

    Consmike New Member Past Donor

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    Yes, Obama and the left stated it was not a tax. Hell when the bill first was being written they had to start over to make sure it was not a tax and changed it to penalty.

    Than Verrilli argued it was a tax.

    So again, when is Obama going to be a real man and stand up and say since it was not written as a tax, it must be re-written?
     
  6. Sent

    Sent New Member

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    Certainly conservatives applauding and cheering the thought of a uninsured man dying, in a question posed to Ron Paul (who is also a nut, by the way) during the Republican Presidential-Candidates debates, is certainly indicative of lacking character and integrity. I'd go further to say even sadistic and downright evil.

    I imagine there are a lot of disappointed conservatives right now, who wanted nothing more than to see sick people unable to afford medical treatment die.

    So many tears.
     
  7. Consmike

    Consmike New Member Past Donor

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    No people die because they can't get medical attention. Patients can't be turned away.

    What is amazing is how liberals scream that healthcare is too expensive. Really? Tell me, what is your life worth to you?
     
  8. Dan40

    Dan40 New Member

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    The "MANDATE" under the Commerce Clause, was declared unconstitutional. obamacare, NOT the mandate, survives only under the Congress power to levy TAXES. A "good" part of the ruling is that Congresses power under the Commerce Clause WAS LIMITED. That is now precedent.

    Under no possible interpretation did the mandate survive and under no possible interpretation is obamacare anything other than a TAX. 21 taxes actually.
     
  9. JoeSixpack

    JoeSixpack New Member

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    I agree it should be sent back to congress, rewritten as a tax (if that was congress's intent), and then give congress the opportunity to vote on it as a completely different bill. It isn't the USSC job to create/write law only interpret what is presented to them. It was presented as something other than a tax it should be considered on that level, only, and if it isn't constitutional as what it was originally designed to be then it either needs to be sent back to congress for redress if, or eliminated all together, if necessary.


    It’s fine for the court to say, if it had been done as a tax in the first place it would have passed the muster, but since it wasn’t, in it’s present state it is unacceptable. They cannot or should not be allowed to manipulate it into something they wished it was or want it too be.
     
  10. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Strawman argument.

    Nobody cheers that, we simply think that progressive liberal attempts to legislate our way to utopia through the forcefull fist of government is a failed route.

    See the billions of dollars spent on the War on Poverty.



    Off-topic rambling

    Another strawman.

    Are you able to make an arguement sir that doesn't contain a fallacy?


    Tears? The over abuse of the legislative branch to pass laws outside the enumerated powers of the federal government by way of the Commerce Clause is a victory.

    No tears from me.

    Obamacare will backfire, become inefficient, the people will hate it like the DMV, and eventually we will have liberals telling us that the only way to fix it is more government control and power. Oh, and blaming the conservatives for the failure.

    Time will tell.

    If you want to debate your positions further, do a solid and come up with something that isn't a partisan fallacy rambling on like an incoherent cray-cray.

    Gracious.
     
  11. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree Joe.

    I don't think the bill garners enough votes to pass as a tax.
     
  12. Consmike

    Consmike New Member Past Donor

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    Exactly. And if Obama and the left had any sense of integrity or honesty, that is exactly what they would do.

    Instead they are out there stating that it is not a tax.

    How can you write a law, not as a tax, then while in court state it is a tax, the court says it is a tax, than after kept as constitutional, Obama is back out there now saying its not a tax.
     
  13. JoeSixpack

    JoeSixpack New Member

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    But there is no doubt the court (by majority vote) said it could only be constitutional as a tax, and then they officially declared it to be a tax. That IMO is when they stepped over the line, from court to legislators.

    If it's a tax, it’s illegal since it was never voted in by congress as a tax. What was voted in by congress wasn't a tax, and that was decided by the court to be unconstitutional. End of story, it needs to go back to congress so they can vote to see if they want it to be a new tax or not, before it can proceed.
     
  14. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hmm, the insured die, the uninsured die. Well whadyaknow! It doesn't matter, everyone dies!
     
  15. Consmike

    Consmike New Member Past Donor

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    Exactly correct. It needs to go back, to the current congress and be voted on again after it is re-written.
     
  16. Zosiasmom

    Zosiasmom New Member Past Donor

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    Again, you're not seeing the full breadth of what Roberts did. It is now a tax regardless of what they call it.
     
  17. Consmike

    Consmike New Member Past Donor

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    Roberts is a Judge. Judges do not have the power to re-write legislation.

    If you can show me that they do somewhere in the constitution than I will agree with you.
     
  18. Dave1mo

    Dave1mo New Member

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    He didn't rewrite legislation; he interpreted it. That's...kind of his job.
     
  19. Consmike

    Consmike New Member Past Donor

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    He re-wrote it.

    The Obamacare bill, was written specifically to not have the mandate be a tax.

    Roberts and the majority said it was a tax, when indeed it was not.

    He re-wrote the law to be a tax.
     
  20. Dave1mo

    Dave1mo New Member

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    Did he change the terms of the program? Did he change the way the penalty is levied? Did he change the way anything functioned within the legislation at all?
     
  21. Dan40

    Dan40 New Member

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    He found, actually the majority, found the MANDATE to be unconstitutional under the Commerce Clause. Read the decision.
     
  22. Consmike

    Consmike New Member Past Donor

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    Yes, because he turned it from a fine, into a tax.
     
  23. Dave1mo

    Dave1mo New Member

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    That's not what I asked, was it?
     
  24. Dave1mo

    Dave1mo New Member

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    Once again; is the "tax" collected any differently than the "fine" after the SCOTUS ruling?
     
  25. Consmike

    Consmike New Member Past Donor

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    I believe so.
     

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