Anyone Want to help Our Troops?

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by NoPartyAffiliation, Jul 7, 2012.

  1. NoPartyAffiliation

    NoPartyAffiliation New Member

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    I'm volunteering at the local base, teaching troops coming out, how to write resumes, interview etc... I've put together a program they love but all of my experience has been working in or owning private sector businesses. So during the last class, I was explaining the radical differences in priorities and thinking between the military and the private sector (e.g. profits are simply never a consideration in the military), when one of the seergeants asked about the difference between military thinking a public sector civilian thinking. I was able to offer some insights but could really use some feedback from people who have worked there for a substantial period of time.
    If you would be wliing to help in this regard, please IM or otherwise let me know. Thanks. FS
     
  2. dudeman

    dudeman New Member

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    Don't see the difference between private and public sector jobs:
    1. Do the job accurately
    2. Do the job safely
    3. Complete the work on-time.

    When will profits enter into 95+% of the working populations perspective?
     
  3. NoPartyAffiliation

    NoPartyAffiliation New Member

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    Obviously we have different perspective and knowledge base. If you're genuinely curious, I guess I can explain but this post wasn't intended for debate purposes. I will share that I am concerned with profits every day, as is every single person who works for me. Most people who have ever worked for me, wanted to know "why" as much as what was expected of them. For some, it was making or increasing profits, others might be saving or controlling costs and so on...
    No matter what you do in the private sector, you fall into one of only five roles.
     
  4. hiimjered

    hiimjered Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your question is an interesting one. Every time I think of a difference, I realize it really isn't that different. DoD Civilians are a mixed bunch which includes some really hard working, motivated people and some that are content to collect a paycheck but do no actual work. The outside is the same.

    One difference is you usually find fewer people who are unwilling to work in outside businesses because they can be fired much more easily on the outside.
    You may find people who aren't as good at politics or navigating bureaucracy on the outside - many DoD civilians are masters of these skills.
    People on the outside are more likely to not show up or quit without warning.

    I'll give it some thought, I do have experience with both. Overall people are people. There are some differences, but they aren't absolutes, only tendencies and trends.
     
  5. Herkdriver

    Herkdriver New Member

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    Well for starters download this...it's free.

    2012 After the Military Handbook

    Download here====>https://vfwdeptla.org/uploads/2012_After_The_Military_Handbook.pdf

    After familiarizing yourself with the handbook, I recommend the following books:

    Life After the Military: A Handbook for Transitioning Veterans (Military Life)
    http://www.amazon.com/Life-After-Military-Handbook-Transitioning/dp/1605907405

    Operation Excellence: Succeeding in Business and Life -- the U.S. Military Way
    http://www.amazon.com/Operation-Excellence-Succeeding-Business-Military/dp/0814408222

    Good luck.
     
  6. IgnoranceisBliss

    IgnoranceisBliss Well-Known Member

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    Great thread. This is something I've been working on a lot as the Vice President of our University's Student Veterans Organization. I recently had an opporuntity to go to a resume/career workshop at Google that was designed for veterans. As many of you probably know, it's not unusual for Google to have more than 1,000 applicants for each job opening; the Google HR people helping us were at the very cutting edge of the job market.

    I took a mandatory week long resume writing class before I seperated from the Marines that was largely worthless. The instructor was a retiree who basically just ran through some silly government checklist without helping too much. Most of his information was geared towards government jobs, an application process that is quite different from the private sector. After working with Google, going through the job application process, and a variety of other career counseling services here are a few of the big points.

    -Resumes should be very concise and SHORT. A lot of military guys have a habit of putting every single thing they've done down. Unless you've been in for 10+ years, your resume should be 1 or maybe 2 pages max.

    -Drop all the acronyms that the military uses. Sometimes we don't realize some of the terms we're using mean nothing to HR. Don't say that you were a platoon commander incharge of a logistics platoon that provided class 1 to a regimental size unit in Iraq. Say that you created and implemented a supply chain management plan and managed a team of 30 soldiers that provided x millions of dollars in critical equipment to more than 2,000 soldiers. Every descriptor should be like this, run it by a civilian to see if they understand

    -Look for key terms in the job description and then make sure they're in your resume. A lot of companies use programs that identify key words to screen out thousands of applications.

    -Have humility when it comes to your military accomplishments, but don't be afraid to let them know the competency you displayed in doing your job.

    -Practice interviewing skills. Come up with a big list of possible questions you might be asked, and then come up with answers. Also go into the interviews with a few questions ready to ASK the interviewer. This is a great way to show the interviewer that your competent and on point.

    -Research the company inside and out before interviewing.

    -There often isn't a direct link between military and cilvian jobs. Go outside your comfort zone a bit, if you sell yourself well, you may end up with a job that you don't seem qualified for on paper.

    Most of these are standard interview/resume stuff that also apply to civilains, but I've found that military TAP classes skip them.
     
  7. NoPartyAffiliation

    NoPartyAffiliation New Member

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    I really appreciate the input and positive attitudes from both of you. Thanks guys and thank you for your service.
     
  8. wezol

    wezol New Member

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  9. dudeman

    dudeman New Member

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    "Obviously we have different perspective and knowledge base. If you're genuinely curious, I guess I can explain but this post wasn't intended for debate purposes." No party

    i'd like to hear about. Why are you discriminating against poor minorities and others that decided not to go into the military?
     
  10. IgnoranceisBliss

    IgnoranceisBliss Well-Known Member

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    What are you talking about? Helping a certain group of people in America who have dedicated themselves to the whims of the nation for four years is discriminating against those people who haven't risked death and danger?
     
  11. dudeman

    dudeman New Member

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    Heroes (gyros), right? That is called a sandwich. Everything else is just propaganda and BS. If they weren't PAID, I might agree. Otherwise, it's just a job like a fry cook at McDonald's when you are 19.
     
  12. IgnoranceisBliss

    IgnoranceisBliss Well-Known Member

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    Who said anything about heros? You can hardly compare it to a job as a fry cook. Do you consider Policemen, Firefighters, the Peacecorps members as just another job? Are there no professions that mean more than just money grubbing to you? The fact remains that the government, and by extension society, has decided that military members should receive extra support above and beyond regular citizens for services rendered.
     
  13. wezol

    wezol New Member

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    Look dude, I'm pretty sure the OP wasn't really looking for a debate, but more just for information and perspective, which is why he posted here in the Military forum instead of elsewhere. Get off your high horse.

    To the OP, those videos I posted are a wealth of knowledge, there are also other organizations that cater to helping Veterans in translating their job duties and achievements into relation that an employer works for.

    There's also an organization in Dallas, I believe, that their sole purpose is helping Veterans who want to be entrepreneurs, more of a mentoring type thing, but I think the Vets they help have to be working on their masters. I'll try and locate it for you.

    What Herk put out there look like some solid info as well, it's all about perspective.
     
  14. NoPartyAffiliation

    NoPartyAffiliation New Member

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    Thanks again.

    I've run national divisions of employment agencies and owned executive recruiting firms for twenty years. I've written programs on the subject for said companies and lectured on it at two universities and a law school. I've prepped people for interviews every week, every month and every year of my career. That would be the knowledge base to which I refer.
    Discriminating? By your logic, I am discriminating the same way the people "discriminate against the sighted, when they donate to the Braille Institute or the way they "discriminate" against people who haven't been affected by hurricanes when they donate to help people who have. WTF dude? What a stupid thing to post.
     
  15. dudeman

    dudeman New Member

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    I.e. pandering for a buck. If there were only panderers for every down and out individual in the USA, I might just support your cause.
     
  16. NoPartyAffiliation

    NoPartyAffiliation New Member

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    Dude, how fcuking stupid are you? You don't have the qualifications or position to help my business. I would doubt if anyone here does, you ignorant twit. Oh wait, perhaps I'm wrong. Do you have a law degree from Harvard, Yale etc... AND ALSO a degree in electrical engineering or a PhD in Biochemistry? No? Yeah I knew that.
    As far as what I'm doing with the troops and vets, I do it for free. Actually it costs me time and money to help them.
    And you do WHAT to help others? Zero? That much is obvious.
     
  17. Trazen

    Trazen New Member

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    For the vets I would push for more benefits such as cheap to government provided insurance as well as extra montary aid and benefits in terms of assistance in finding jobs and providing government jobs. To pay for this I would simply cut out waste projects.
     
  18. IgnoranceisBliss

    IgnoranceisBliss Well-Known Member

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    All of these programs already exist.
     
  19. Trazen

    Trazen New Member

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    To some point, the problem is some vets still have problems with the programs such as being rejected and only give aid for a sort while. My hopes are to give them help as long as them need even if they leave the program and come back later do to problems. Basically, if you are a vet you would get insurance for life, and job help whenever you need it.
     
  20. IgnoranceisBliss

    IgnoranceisBliss Well-Known Member

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    I think there are already some great programs out there. The real issue is getting the VA fixed. I just spent an hour and a half trying to set up an appointment for treatment for a service-connected disability. I have to fill out about 10 pages of forms then wait a month or two to even get in to a doctor, let alone the specialist I probably need. I just ended up calling a civilian physical therapist and made an appointment for next week in 3 minutes. Luckily I have private insurance, many vets don't. We also need to do more to teach guys about these programs and how to navigate them. Too many of these programs have silly red tape and less than motivated employees.
     
  21. Trazen

    Trazen New Member

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    I completely agree, it needs to be easier. Probably part of the reason why there is so much paperwork is to get vets to not go after the benefits they earned.
     
  22. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    The problem to me is not as much as the workshops (largely worthless), as it is the employers.

    I can't tell you how many times people would see my military experience on a resume, and basically tell me that it would mean nothing to them. In short, telling me that I had wasted 10 years of my life. Most simply have no idea what being in the military is. Or even worse, have some kind of warped impression. I had one who saw that, and said he wanted people who could think on their own, not robots.

    And I saw it recently also. Over 100 resumes sent out, very few responses at all. Some I contacted were looking for people to do something I specialized in for over a decade, roll-outs of new computer systems in corporate environments. But they look at the resume, see "5 years Army", and tell me they want somebody with "real experience" (guess they did not bother seeing before that was Boeing, Hughes, Disney, US Borax, Chevron, and others).

    I pretty much write off civilians to be honest. I Most in HR are really detestible beings. The military can give all the Transition Assistance Programs and Resume courses it wants, it still will not help the problem. To be honest, to many simply see military as not desireable, no matter what they claim otherwise.

    100+ resumes sent out
    5 callbacks
    0 interviews
    0 offers

    And I was sending out offers to all levels, from temp and contract work to entry level up to just team leaders positions. 2 of the callers actually admitted that they call back all military people, but I had the feeling they never hired them "because they lack the experience and skills needed".
     
  23. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Oh don't even get me started on the VA. That is a gigantic fustercluck that to me is a perfect example of "Government Care".

    I sent off my paperwork in April so I could start school. It is now mid-July, and still nothing. No monthly payments, no response, no nothing. And it is the same for the other 4 guys in my class who are in school. We are starting our second month, nobody has anything back yet. And with bills starting to back up, even the school is starting to call me in constantly to find out when they are going to get paid.

    I am about to go to my Congressman to try and get something done. I think this is the biggest reason why the idea of "Government run anything" scares the crap outta me.
     
  24. Herkdriver

    Herkdriver New Member

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    Aside from the disabled veteran, the Government can't hold your hand forever. It's tough all over, for any job seekers. My advice is to correlate what you did in the service to the civiilian equivalent and downplay the combat experience. HR departments are predominantly female, and detest the notion of hiring a combat veteran...for fear of liability.

    Consider the Reserves/Guard also, if you are eligible. You'll have a leg up with prior military service.
     
  25. IgnoranceisBliss

    IgnoranceisBliss Well-Known Member

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    This is probably because

    A) It doesn't look like you're looking for entry level/post college work. Companies seem to love Vets at that level, but transitioning into middle management can be difficult.

    B) The economy sucks right now

    C) Anything relating to computer systems changes rapidly. From my understanding, computer science majors with a few years out of the industry have a hell of time getting a job beause it's assumed they're out of the loop. I don't know what your specific skills are, but chances are they have a short shelf-life if related to computers.

    I think you probably need to do a better job selling yourself. I'd really look over your resume and try and translate it to "civilian" as much as possible. There should be no acronymns at all. Just dollar signs, general descriptions of what you did, and how many people you were incharge of. The internet/computers have really radically changed the application/resume process. The Google recruiters I was talking to basically said anything that worked 3 years ago probably won't today, depending on the industry. If you can suck them in with that perfect resume you can sell your military skills.

    Also, 100 submissions isn't really that many. Consider that with most online job sites you can apply to a job in a matter of seconds. I know people that have submitted close to 1000 resumes before getting hired.
     

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