God particle discovery is a win for science over superstition

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by rstones199, Jul 11, 2012.

  1. rstones199

    rstones199 Well-Known Member

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    God particle discovery is a win for science over superstition

    Someday, religion will be relegated to the fringe of society, not to be taken seriously by the masses. That day is fast approaching. The more science discovers, the more myths fall.

    The Higgs boson partcile, A.K.A. 'The God particle' is just the latest example oh humans finding out the real truth behind the universe.
     
  2. MAYTAG

    MAYTAG Active Member

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    Religion is the only thing preventing many of these people from acting as foolishly as they truly are. Scientists could create an entire new universe containing intelligent life and the religious will only say, "Ah, but this proves there is a God because someOne had to give us the intellect to create such a thing!"

    With arguments like these being allowed to fly, religion is here to stay. I'm happy because far more people would be far more evil without it.
     
  3. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

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    But but but... scientists actually believe in God.

    Don't you see the conspiracy?
     
  4. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Someday, religion will be relegated to the fringe of society, not to be taken seriously by the masses.

    While I don't have so much hope for us, knowing how ignorant, emotional and plain pig-headed people can be, I do have some measure of hope.

    As do others:

    [video=youtube;845X-acRlZE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=845X-acRlZE[/video]
     
  5. thebrucebeat

    thebrucebeat Banned

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    I have no idea what that hope is based on.
     
  6. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    Eh, they'll still act the same as an priest or Imam or Rhabbi.
     
  7. South Pole Resident

    South Pole Resident New Member

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    Cool story bro.
     
  8. Blackrook

    Blackrook Banned

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    Science is not the best attack on religion. Its not even the 10th best attack.
     
  9. rstones199

    rstones199 Well-Known Member

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    Since your do not understand science, I am not surprised you would say such nonsense.
     
  10. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    We just have to make sure we don't invest the same kind of emotions in other things. Politics, scientists, and so on. I'll leave it unsaid for the moment, whether religion caused this or that, but we know that exchanging it without exchanging the attitude around it can be dangerous too.
     
  11. Anobsitar

    Anobsitar Banned

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    Oh by the way: Why has the Higgs-boson mass?

    http://youtu.be/I8oXsI7XH90
     
  12. IndieVisible

    IndieVisible New Member

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    I just love atheists who think there MUST be a conflict between religion and science. As if it is impossible to be religious and have a scientific mind. Nothing could be further from the truth. Perhaps some of them forget or did not know that the big bang theory was introduced by a priest/scientist. Science only becomes a stumbling block for those who take the Bible or whatever religeous book they read to be literal in every aspect. From that we get the young earth believers and many other problems. But there are many Christians who love science and embrace it fully with a scientific mind and attitude regarding it! I am a Christian and not only accept the big bang but also evolution. I also hang at physicsforums.com. Love it! Go figure lol.
     
  13. Anobsitar

    Anobsitar Banned

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    So you are thinking people believing in god are "ignorant, emotional and plain pig-headed people". Question: How do you combine the words "emotional" and "ignorant" in the same person? Isn't this a contradiction?

    [​IMG]

    http://youtu.be/uI-Z8hDkZB0
     
  14. MAYTAG

    MAYTAG Active Member

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    No, "emotional" and "ignorant" are not contradictory and, in fact, often go well together.
     
  15. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

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    I have a problem with the Higgs field...

    ... if Higgs is the glue that holds atoms together...

    ... then why aren't all atoms the same?...

    ... Or rather, there would have to be varying degrees of the Higgs field...

    ... in order for there to be differing atoms of elements...

    ... for example, the Higgs field would have to be weaker in elements lower on the periodic table...

    ... and becoming stronger for elements of higher mass in the upper registers of the periodic table...

    ... otherwise there would only be one element which we know is not true...

    ... it seems unreasonable to say that the Higgs force is like a one size fits all scheme.
    :omg:
     
  16. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Let me see since scientists don't yet know everything and likely never will this disproves God precisely how? I see simply proof that God created an orderly universe.
     
  17. Blasphemer

    Blasphemer Well-Known Member

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    Science will hardly disprove god in general, but it will, and already has to some degree, disprove the naive idea of a less competent god who has to personally create everything like a child in a sandbox.

    Eventually, all that will remain is the idea of a god who set some basic physical laws before the first instant of existence, and then let the universe evolve to its present state without outside intervention. And that is a feat much more worthy of a god than what those crazy creationists believe.
     
    daddyofall and (deleted member) like this.
  18. IndieVisible

    IndieVisible New Member

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    It does not disprove God. That is not the goal or task of science. It really should not even be called the "God particle" because that has lead to a lot of confusion. This will help science understand the make up of the universe, how matter came to be, even perhaps one day how the big bang started and why. There is a lot we still do not know. We don't know if the universe is infinite or if it is how to define infinite. All we are sure about is the visible (observable) part of the universe and we know it is expanding.

    No one will ever be able to prove or disprove that God is responsible for every thing. That is not what science is about. Science is about explaining the universe, physics, which will in turn hopefully advance our civilization in other areas.

    You and I may agree that God is the Cause. But that is not what science is about. Man will never be able to detect or prove God. And of course that works the other way, man will never be able to disprove God. There really is no conflict here except for those that want to create a conflict. :)
     
  19. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    Neither the Higgs particle nor the Higgs field holds atoms together. That would be the strong force.

    The strong force has a limited range, which explains why it can be seen as weaker in larger atoms, all the forces simply don't reach all the particles. Edit: Not that that would matter, the strong force both keeps nucleons in and keeps external nucleons out, unless you bombard it with high energy nucleons, which would be what we do in nuclear reactors.

    The Higgs mechanism gives mass to some particles, but this is all still on a quantum level, the protons and neutrons don't really act like billiard balls.
     
  20. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    It does not disprove God. That is not the goal or task of science. It really should not even be called the "God particle" because that has lead to a lot of confusion. This will help science understand the make up of the universe, how matter came to be, even perhaps one day how the big bang started and why. There is a lot we still do not know. We don't know if the universe is infinite or if it is how to define infinite. All we are sure about is the visible (observable) part of the universe and we know it is expanding.

    And that sir is precisely the point of my question. By the way Additional knowlege bereft of additional wisdom is like owning a Farrari but having no access to gasoline. Humans today have more access to more knowlege than any other generation in history. I have yet to see the slightest bit of evidence that we are in any measure better for it. And in certain respects we may well be the worse for it. Certainly in terms of excessive hubris.
     
  21. IndieVisible

    IndieVisible New Member

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    I understand what you mean, but I do think we are better off now then we were say 2000 years ago. Who knows where we will be in another 2000 years? I agree that in some respect we still are the same, but man has been given a mind and we have not stopped thinking or trying to learn ever since. It is our quest for knowledge to reach the unreachable that keeps us moving and will perhaps keep us from extinction, if we do not destroy the world ourselves. If it was not for this drive we have, we would have never progressed past cave men and would have been extinct a long time ago. I am excited about our technology and the direction we are going in! I wonder what life will be like for humans in 2000 years from now.
     
  22. MAYTAG

    MAYTAG Active Member

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    Slow down. Higgs is only one of the latest discoveries. Composition of the atom is an older one that will answer some of your questions here.

    Each element is just a different arrangement of the three subatomic particles: proton, neutron, and electron. All atoms, essentially, ARE the same. Heavier ones just have more protons packed in there, which attract and carry around more electrons, giving them different chemical properties because essentially only the outer electrons of the atoms interact with others.

    Distinguishing between different elements is no more than counting protons. Anything that has an effect on a proton (or its constituents), will affect all the elements without a need to rewrite the rules for each element.

    A fair question can be asked, "How does the Higgs give mass to all the different massive particles?" But asking that about elements shows that you don't know what elements are or how they are distinguished from each other. It is outside my currently naive understanding of modern physics to give you a good answer, but to the best of my understanding, the Higgs field is one of many fields that exists across the universe. The associated "particle" is of little consequence to mass as far as I know. A particle is just the manifestation of the entire field interacting with the surroundings at a certain point. The talk of the "Higgs" mass was talk about how much energy would be required at a certain locality to have enough to possibly produce the associated particle... or cause the Higgs field to interact with the detectors in the collider enough to momentarily create the particle, which is detected by the way it predictably, and immediately flies apart into other particles.

    What the Higgs mechanism does, naively and conceptually, is provide some sort of backdrop that prevents all the little field interactions from all the different fields from flying away as pure energy. The mechanism makes that energy stick as particles, which is our conception of "mass."

    Now that I have posted my ignorance, I am hopeful someone with more expertise can come along and correct this and teach us all a little more about this stuff.
     
  23. MAYTAG

    MAYTAG Active Member

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    To me, science will be a waste of time if it does not ultimately result in the immortality of the human race. But it's my favorite way to waste time, and if immortality is not to be achieved, everything else is equally a waste of time, so there is nothing lost by trying.
     
  24. Anobsitar

    Anobsitar Banned

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    Example?

    http://youtu.be/FodfkqfJrhQ
     
  25. IndieVisible

    IndieVisible New Member

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    I realize your kidding.

    I think one of the long term goals is to start colonizing in space and beyond interstellar travel. We only have about 1 billion years left on earth before the oceans start to evaporate as our sun starts to die. And more likely only around 600,000 years before temperatures get to hot for comfort.

    I hear Andromeda has nice weather :)
     

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