So Homes used an assualt rifle? Really?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Wolverine, Jul 26, 2012.

  1. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

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    The horror of Holmes actions aside, I find gun control debates very amusing. Typically you have the gun control advocates telling the gun owners what they should and shouldn't be allowed to own. These gun control advocates often know very little or nothing about firearms or their capabilities, yet still feel like an authority on the issue. Some pose as long time gun owners, yet make the same mistakes. Much like a ninth grader telling a neurosciencetist "... no... you are wrong Mr." They are often unable to cite specifics about guns or gun laws. In fact, usually demonstrating an blatant misunderstanding of both.

    So now we have this thread.

    I find the term "assault rifle" to be very specific. There is very little deviation in its accepted definition. An assault rifle is an automatic weapon that fires an intermediately powered cartridge from a box magazine. This does include M-16's, AK-47's, FN FAL's, things of that sort. That definition does not include AR-15's, WASR-10's, or DSA's. The definition is plain and simple. Holmes did not use an assault rifle. I would love to own a bonified assault rifle, however I do not have the $20,000 for a legal M-16.

    So then Wolverine, what did Holmes use? He used an AR-15. A very popular and prolific rifle in the United States. The AR-15 has very much in the last few years become the new sportsman rifles. With is adaptability and options for customization, it can fit essentially any role you would like it to, whether that be personal defense, varmint hunting, precision target shooting, plinking, or even big games hunting. Anyone who claims that there is no reason for a civilian to own an AR-15 is clearly clueless and ignorant of what why the rifle is popular.

    The AR-15 is not an assault rifle. Those who use such terminology are to be educated, and if they still claim some sort of imagined authority, then simply dismissed.

    Gun control advocate organizations will refer to firearms like the AR-15 as assault rifles or "assault weapons". What is an "assault weapon"? As "assault weapon" is a semi-automatic rifle that looks like an assault rifle. They are semi-automatic, which means one round is fired with each pull of the trigger. They are not automatic weapons. They are no different in functionality when compared to any other semi-automatic firearm. The term "assault weapon" is used to demonized firearms that look like automatic weapons. It is far easier to ban "assault weapons" instead of semi-automatic sporting firearms.

    Example. This is a 10/22 I used to own. I added parts, and it looked like an evil military assault rifle. But, it was the same crappy gun. Only a change in appearance.
    [​IMG]

    Another example. This is a comparison between pre and post ban firearms that were effected by the 1994 Crime Bill. Note the slight change in appearance. The Crime bill barred certain feature, as long as the firearm did not have more than two of these features at one time they were legal to produce. The ban was nothing more than a cosmetic change that did not change the funtionality of the firearms. Those who claim that an extension of the 1994 crime bill would have made a difference quite simply do not know what they are talking about.

    I know the more informed gun owners will see some errors in the image. As stated before, gun control advocates typically do not understand what they are talking about, and do not notice inaccuracies in their information. In this case they have a post-ban importable .22LR Armscore AK-22 listed as an pre-ban AK-47 (laughable). Then they have a pre-ban AK-74 clone listed as a post ban rifle. Laughable. Anyway, note the slight cosmetic differences.
    [​IMG]

    Also, a fun video explaining what I just stated above. But its a video. So less reading.
    [video=youtube;youtube/YjM9fcEzSJ0]http://youtu.be/YjM9fcEzSJ0[/video]

    A link in case the video does not work.
    http://youtu.be/YjM9fcEzSJ0
     
  2. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Good explanation. AR-15s are popular because they are pretty accurate. The AK variations are popular because they are rugged but are not as accurate. The assault weapons ban created the definition of "assault weapon" and since it is not in effect anymore there is no definition.
     
  3. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

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    Its just a fun word to use.

    Also, AR-15 > AK :p
     
  4. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

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    So I take it no one wants to discuss gun control in this particular situation?

    I suppose a myth bunking OP will do such.
     
  5. Dr. Righteous

    Dr. Righteous Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the informative thread.
     
  6. Nunya D.

    Nunya D. Well-Known Member

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    Very good thread and explanation Wolverine!!

    Another reason the AR-15 is popular is that it is the similar to the M-16a1 (the exception being it is not an automatic weapon) that is used in the military. A lot of ex-soldiers are very familiar with it and it's capabilities.
     
  7. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    When my daughter got out of the Marines, I built her one from a stripped lower that was etched with the globe and anchor. They are very customizable and I know people that use them for hunting. For instance, in my state, you can only hunt deer with a handgun round so some put a .458 Socom upper on one to hunt with.

    [​IMG]

    Some cartridges that are legal include the following:
    .357 Magnum
    .38-40 Winchester
    .41 Magnum
    .41 Special
    .44 Magnum
    .44 Special
    .44-40 Winchester
    .45 Colt
    .454 Casull
    .458 SOCOM
    .480 Ruger
    .475 Linebaugh
    .50 Action Express
    .500 S&W
    Some illegal rifle cartridges for deer hunting are the .30-30 Winchester, .444 Marlin and .45-70 Govt.
     
  8. Daybreaker

    Daybreaker Well-Known Member

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    There might also be some confusion stemming from the 'AR' part of 'AR-15.'
     
  9. SpaceCricket79

    SpaceCricket79 New Member Past Donor

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    I never pictured you as a gun afficionado
     
  10. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

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    The dinfinition should be any gun that is too powerful for hunting should be considered an assault weapon. Hunting and killing are the two uses of a gun, and any gun that can not be used for hunting should be illegal for the average citizen to own.
     
  11. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    All guns can be used for hunting so that destroys your argument. There are many hunting rifles much more powerful than an AR or an AK.

    Well, that would rule out the AR from being banned then. The only reason rifle rounds are banned in Indiana is because it is flat and they could travel too far. Handgun rounds below .357 are banned for not being powerful enough.
     
  12. Daybreaker

    Daybreaker Well-Known Member

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    I disagree, for two reasons:

    1) It shouldn't be illegal for one person to have the capacity to kill another person, partly because ...

    2) Any human being can kill any human being regardless of whether or not they're armed.
     
  13. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

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    All guns can be used for hunting.

    The AR-15 is limited to varmint hunting in Colorado. The 5.56 NATO is too small for even deer. My elk rifle is over three times more powerful than my AR-15.

    So does the AR-15 meet your qualifications for hunting? Can you name a specific gun that is far too powerful for hunting? Is there a ftlbs. of energy threshold? Velocity? Bullet weight?
     
  14. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How would they ban my daughter who could kill you with her hands?
     
  15. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

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    More like the A2 and A3 versions of the M-16. The A1 is more of a novelty item these days.

    Aye. I have built AR-15's and such.
     
  16. Daybreaker

    Daybreaker Well-Known Member

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    Exactly! Everybody knows there's nothing more deadly than a child. "Waaaa! I'm lost!" "How can I help? Ouch!" "By expiring rapidly due to the drain cleaner I just injected into your defenseless butt once you came close enough! Now let's see what's in your pockets ..."
     
  17. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

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    How powerful is too powerful for hunting? Depends on what you are hunting.

    If it is Cape Buffalo, a 120mm Rheinmetall is about right.
     
  18. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    So we are just going to make up our own definitions are we? What, are you a news anchor?
     
  19. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

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    Anyone else feel like addressing the OP?
     
  20. Dr. Righteous

    Dr. Righteous Well-Known Member

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    I just don't think anybody disagrees with it.
     
  21. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

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    So far we have three or four threads going and in all of them I am correcting the bull(*)(*)(*)(*) cited in the OP.
     
  22. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I hope you realize it is a hopeless cause. True believers will never see the light of rational thinking.
     
  23. Panzerkampfwagen

    Panzerkampfwagen New Member

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    Actually the FN-FAL isn't an Assault Rifle. It's very similar but it doesn't fire an intermediate cartridge. It's a selective fire battle rifle.
     
  24. Panzerkampfwagen

    Panzerkampfwagen New Member

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    Since the AR-15 uses an intermediate cartridge it's less powerful than many hunting rifles.
     
  25. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

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    That is true.
     

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