Abortion positions once and for all

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by churchmouse, Aug 25, 2012.

  1. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

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    Hopefully this will make peoples positions on here clearer.

    1. All abortions should be illegal.
    2. All abortions should be illegal except to save the mothers life….if she is dying, or will die. This does not include emotional stress.
    3. All abortions should be illegal except to save the mothers life and in cases of rape and incest.
    4. All abortions should be legal for whatever the reason throughout the entire nine months of a woman's pregnancy, it is the woman's body, her choice.
    5. Abortions should only be legal until viability of the unborn.

    *I could not attach a time on viability because it varies for each pro-abort. I shall say somewhere in the second trimester.

    I am asking personal opinion on this…so the condition of our present laws do not matter. However I am going to assume that if someone wants the law left alone, they do NOT want late term abortion and the law should stand as it reads today.


    Simply state which number you agree with…its that easy.
     
  2. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

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    That's me.

    With one exception, as I've explained before.

    I would be willing to support a compromise such as this, assuming exceptions for medical conditions and birth defects are a part of it, and on one non-negotiable condition. This compromise must come with solidified airtight clearly defined legal protections for abortion prior to the cutoff date. That means, no state government tricks to limit abortion, like Arizona and Mississippi and other states have tried. No more personhood nonsense. In order for me to support this compromise, it's unquestionable effect would have to be to protect the right to medically safe abortion without restriction prior to the cutoff date. That means no restriction at either the local, state, or federal level. If those conditions are not met, without exception to what I've written, then I am back to #4.
     
  3. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    5. Abortions should only be legal until viability of the unborn.

    Obviously after that time a c-section would need to be preformed if the mother health was at risk



    .
     
  4. Caidh Mor

    Caidh Mor New Member

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    You could add a poll to this, make it a bit easier to see the results for everyone.

    I support five.
     
  5. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

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    You are making this harder than it is.

    Just pick one. AGain your saying two things. I am talking not about laws on the books…didn't you read that.

    You are still avoiding….just pick your personal stance.
     
  6. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

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    Why do you think abortion should be legal at all, just curious?
     
  7. Blasphemer

    Blasphemer Well-Known Member

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    5. Abortions should only be legal until viability of the unborn.
     
  8. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

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    If it has to be one or the other, then I pick unrestricted abortion throughout the entire pregnancy. It's the only option you have listed that will protect the right to an abortion without the threat of being picked away piece by piece by the anti-abortion movement.
     
  9. Anachronism

    Anachronism New Member

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    Number 3, with the caveat thats that:

    a. The life of the mother must be in IMMEDIATE DANGER of ending. This is not about unpleasant medical side-effects of the pregnancy but about Death only.

    b. In the case of incest or rape, the woman must press charges against her impregnator PRIOR to being allowed to undergo the abortion and must agree IN WRITING to assist the LEOs and DAs in all ways possible to ensure arrest, prosecution, and conviction.
     
  10. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

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    Anachronism said,

    I believe I specified that the woman was near death.

    So she would be allowed an abortion if she prosecuted?

    Just curious what you think the rapist has to do with abortion?

    Pro-aborts would say that it is her body and her decision. But now I am seeing here…that the people who say that early term abortion denies a woman the right to her body…is doing the same thing by denying her the rights to a late term abortion. The question then becomes…should viability matter? If it doesn't to the woman who is pregnant…then why should anyone deny her an abortion if she has no problem with it.

    And if you say your pro-life and against all abortion except for 2 and 3…am wondering how this is justified.
     
  11. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

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    Just curious when you think viability is?
    Just curious why you want to deny the woman the right to her body..based on your morality.
     
  12. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

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    Thought there would be more people in here…especially regulars. LOL
     
  13. Anachronism

    Anachronism New Member

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    I missed that, but I would still have made the same comment as there are many out there who believe that ANY medical complication is an acceptable reason to allow abortion.

    Yes, if the LEOs and DA determined there was a case that could be prosecuted, and she agreed to do so, she would be allowed the abortion. The rapist has nothing to do with it. The ACT of Rape does. Sex is intended to be a consentual act. As such, one consents to the sexual act AND the potential consequences (including pregnancy) thereof. When one does not consent to the act, one cannot have consented to the consequences either. The prosecution is necessary to ensure that this option is not used by every girl who makes a bad decision on who to lay down with or puts herself in a position to make bad decisions and now wishes to avoid the consequences.

    I'm not Pro-Life. I'm in favor of the Death Penalty as well. I AM Anti-Abortion with the specified exceptions.
     
  14. Beevee

    Beevee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I support 4.

    As far as I am concerned, it's nobody's business but the female concerned and she should be able to choose whatever is best for her. Bugger everyone else, they say what they like but don't have to live with the results for the rest of their lives so it's easy to make a statement as long as those making it don't experience the consequences.
     
  15. Blasphemer

    Blasphemer Well-Known Member

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    The appearance of brain waves in the cerebral cortex. Its not correct to call this viability, its a different criterion for personhood than viability, but its the closest from your options to it.

    Right to life of the unborn person trumps right to bodily autonomy in this case.
     
  16. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

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    So now you call it an unborn….wow. Why does an unborns person….trump the woman's rights to her body?
    And when was viability you didn't state the exact time.
     
  17. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

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    Anachronism said,

    She would not need their permission today….abortion is legal. And she can still prosecute.



    So rape is the only exception. How about incest?

    Why is a rape babies life worth less because its mother was raped?

    Do you think if you walked into a nursery and a nurse told you one of the babies mothers was raped…you would be able to pick that child out? Rape is a violent act in most cases…but why should the innocent child suffer? Two wrongs….?
    The mother than can live with the rape and the fact she killed the child that came of the rape. Let me tell you living with just killing the child is enough to make life unlivable at times.
     
  18. Anachronism

    Anachronism New Member

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    You're correct that she doesn't need permission today, because we allow for abortion in demand, which kills two things.... The child AND it's Mother's soul.

    In my mind if the incest is consensual, no matter how disgusting, it is not a reason to abort. We need people to start having to live with the consequences of their actions.

    That's up to the mother. I'm not saying she has to abort, just that she should have the option; unlike the woman who consented to the act which made her pregnant.

    It doesn't matter if I can or not. It's about whether or not she wished to carry the baby of her rapist. Nothing more.

    That's for her to deal with. She can choose to carry the baby and put it up for adoption of she wants to. All I'm saying is that rape and immediate death are the only two situations where I consider abortion an appropriate OPTION.
     
  19. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

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    Anachronism said,

    It never killed my soul. I committed a terrible sin..but the Lord Jesus Christ when I repented and asked forgiveness forgave me. I am His.


    If abortion were illegal…more people would do this.


    The option kills. Why should she have that option?





    Sure it is. And people deal with the actions they do don't they? I am sure a lot of people sitting in prisons and jail regret their actions…abortion is no different.
    What I am saying is that….a life is a life. And a rape babies life is the same as one who was not born out of rape….no difference whatsoever.
     
  20. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

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    Anachronism said,

    It never killed my soul. I committed a terrible sin..but the Lord Jesus Christ when I repented and asked forgiveness forgave me. I am His.


    If abortion were illegal…more people would do this.


    The option kills. Why should she have that option?





    Sure it is. And people deal with the actions they do don't they? I am sure a lot of people sitting in prisons and jail regret their actions…abortion is no different.
    What I am saying is that….a life is a life. And a rape babies life is the same as one who was not born out of rape….no difference whatsoever.
     
  21. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

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    Wow…not many want to share their positions….their absence speaks volumes.
     
  22. Blackblack

    Blackblack New Member Past Donor

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    i tried to but some sleazy mod deleted it :/
     
  23. Blackblack

    Blackblack New Member Past Donor

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    this is what the sleazy mod deleted.
     
  24. Anachronism

    Anachronism New Member

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    Just realize that not all of us believe in your JC or give him much credence. Nor do all of us believe in Forgiveness.

    Yes, if abortion was illegal, most people would have no other choice than to live with the consequences of their actions.

    In my mind, she has to have an option and a choice at some point in the equation, if we're going to saddle her with the responsibility for carrying and/or raising a child. She didn't have the option at the moment of conception, so she needs to have it afterwards. If she has the option at the moment of conception, then she doesn't get it afterwards.

    On that topic we're just going to have to disagree.
     
  25. Blasphemer

    Blasphemer Well-Known Member

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    5 months.

    Because right to live is more important than right to bodily autonomy, especially when the loss of bodily autonomy is temporary. Of course thats assuming normal, non-threatening pregnancy. If the fetus threatens the womans life or health, then killing it is self-defense. We can kill even adult people in self-defense, so in such case the age of the fetus is irrelevant.
     

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