Abortion: The Facts

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by CatholicCrusader, Sep 15, 2012.

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  1. CatholicCrusader

    CatholicCrusader Banned

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    The big problem with the abortion discussion in America today is that it always revolves around legal decisions and not scientific fact. Scientifically, the "fetus" is a human being: He/She has human blood, human flesh, human DNA, which makes him or her human; not a dog, not a cat, not a bird, but human. And when he or she is sucked through a vacuum tube and destroyed, what has just been destroyed is a human life. That is science. That is fact.

    What is all too often being focused on instead though is the "legalisms" of "personhood", whether or not the child in the womb is legally a person and therefore whether or not the child in the womb has the right to live and not be killed as all persons do. Does anyone know what is wrong with that? What is wrong with that is, that is what was done to the slaves. Their blood and DNA were human too, scientifically they were human beings like anybody else, but the law denied them personhood and thus their rights could be denied them, and that is what is being done here too. Today, just as then, the law flies in the face of scientific fact.

    Abortion is the destruction of human life. Thats science. I don't care what a judge says or what a lawyer says: What I am saying is SCIENCE and is FACT. The child in the womb, scientifically is a human being, and therefore killing him or her is murder.

    And one other thing: It is also a fact that the DNA of the child in the womb is unique and different from the mother's DNA, which blows out of the water the argument that "I can do what I want with my body", because its not the woman's body, it is an entirely seperate person, with the right to life. The child in the womb, scientifically, is a unique person.

    So, what do we call it when someone snuffs out the life of of an innocent person? In a civilized society, we call it murder.


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  2. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

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    Some abortion statistics:

    Most women who are seeking abortions for their convenience never even bothered to make sure the man was wearing a condom.
    While 72% of women who were getting abortions had not used condoms with their sexual partners, 46% of the women had not bothered to use any form of contraception!
    http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3429402.html

    More than 86% of abortions are done for the woman's convenience &#8211; in other words they didn&#8217;t want the child or felt they couldn't afford a baby. Only 1% of abortions are performed because of rape or incest.
    Guttmacher Institute
     
  3. CatholicCrusader

    CatholicCrusader Banned

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    Facscinating.
    ...and horrifying.
     
  4. Sadanie

    Sadanie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ridiculous comments as usual!
    Based on your "proof" that an embryo is "human" women of child bearing age all over the world are committing infanticide once a month!

    In the other hand, the doctors who were murdered because they performed abortions, and all the criminals (whether or not they were REALLY guilty) who were executed for their assumed crimes, and all the children and adults we have killed (including our own soldiers) during our wars REALLY were HUMANS!
     
  5. CatholicCrusader

    CatholicCrusader Banned

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    Hey, you finally figured that out, did you?

    Abortion is murder plain and simple, because the child in the womb is scientifically a human being, and all your pro-death ranting cannot change those facts.

    Why do I get the feeling that you killed your own baby once, and that your anger is actually guilt.
     
  6. Sadanie

    Sadanie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Anger? Not a bit!
    Actually, I kind of pity a person who makes such extreme and delusonal comments!

    And, I have said often that one of the greatest blessings in my life (beside giving birth to a healthy boy, adopting a beautiful, smart, 6 year old girl, and seeing 4 grandsons being born) is that I Was never faced with the heart wrenching decision to abort or to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term!

    I honestly do not know what my decision would have been. . .

    But what I know for sure is that it would not have been an easy decision, but it would have been MINE, and mine alone (with my husband's help, but not his directive) to make!
     
  7. Blasphemer

    Blasphemer Well-Known Member

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    A foetus is not a person in my book, so it is no murder.

    The question of beginning of a human personhood is not settled. Science alone is not enough to answer it, because science is descriptive, not prescriptive, and thus is insufficient to answer moral questions by itself. Thats a fact.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beginning_of_human_personhood
     
  8. Cady

    Cady Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Except that many scientists disagree with your facts, including very prominent ones like Carl Sagan and Lewis Wolpert. A human zygote/embryo/fetus is human, but that doesn't mean it is a human being or person. There is no scientific consensus about that.
     
  9. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

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    So what do scientists say?

    http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/when-does-science-say-human-life-begins/
    http://www.abort73.com/abortion/medical_testimony/
    http://personal.georgiasouthern.edu/~etmcmull/ABORTION.htm
     
  10. CatholicCrusader

    CatholicCrusader Banned

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    Well then your "book" contradicts scientific fact. That was the whole point of the OP, to place scientific fact above opinions and legalisms. Please re-read the OP all the way through.
     
  11. Blasphemer

    Blasphemer Well-Known Member

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    Once again, there is no scientific consensus on when does human personhood begin. Therefore my post does not contradict science in any way.

    You cannot use scientific facts alone to decide about morality of abortion, because science does not prescribe any moral views. Science is descriptive only.
     
  12. CatholicCrusader

    CatholicCrusader Banned

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    See what I mean? Did you even read the OP?

    "Personhood" is a legalism, not science. Science says that "fetus" is a human "being". And killing innocent human "beings" is murder. Thats what the law says. The problem is that currently, the law is wrong not to recognize all human beings as human beings, just as the law was wrong 150 years ago not to recognize Blak people as human beings with rights.

    The Suprem Court is not some holy infallible entity. They can be wrong. Liberals scream about them being wrong all the time on certain rulings. Well guess what: They were wrong about Roe v. Wade too.

    Abortion is murder.
     
  13. Blasphemer

    Blasphemer Well-Known Member

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    "Being" is not a scientific term. I dont consider foetus to be a being. It is an organism, but "being" is something with properties of mind. Foetus has none, unless it is late-term. Bunch of cells is not a being or a person.

    If you mean homo sapiens, then I agree, a foetus is a living homo sapiens. But not all humans deserve rights. I think that those who lack higher brain, such as early foetuses or braindead people, deserve no rights. This is not comparable to racism, because race is based in superficial genetic differences that are not really important, contrary to the vast and crucial difference between a developed human person and a bunch of unsentient cells.
     
  14. CatholicCrusader

    CatholicCrusader Banned

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    Okay, maybe that was the wrong word. But the fetus is human life for sure, and killing innocent hiuman life is murder.

    LOL. YOU are a bunch of cells too, in case you forgot.

    Tell me Mr. Peabody, how many cells does your body have to have before you have the right to not have someone murder you.
     
  15. Sadanie

    Sadanie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  16. Sadanie

    Sadanie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No. An embryo or early term fetus MAY have the POTENTIAL of becoming a human being. . . If its development is not terminated, either by "natural causes" or an abortion.

    It is ONLY carrier of that early term fetus that gives the cluster of cells "human status," by imagining and hoping for what COULD be.

    Just as pet lovers give their beloved pet a "voice" by projecting their own feelings and want on them.

    And a dog, monkey or cat is a lot more developped than an early term fetus or an embryo who can't even feel pain, want, desire, hunger, or ANY other feelings or emotions.
     
  17. Blasphemer

    Blasphemer Well-Known Member

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    My body must have around 20 billion cells at least. And not just ordinary cells, these cells must be cortical neurons connected by trillions of synapses and capable of generating what we refer to as "mind", byproduct of which are measurable cortical brainwaves. This happens no sooner than in 5th month of foetal development.

    If someone killed my foetus (not "me", I didnt exist yet) before this time, I would not care in the same way I would not care if I was "contracepted" out of existence.
     
  18. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    People are welcome to have any opinion they choose related to abortion so long as they don't attempt to impose their personal opinion under the laws of the United States. Once they resort to attempting to impose laws that restrict the Rights of the Individual then the issue becomes a legal issue, not a scientific or religious issue.

    No laws on abortion, no problem. Laws restricting abortion are exclusively in the "legal" arena and must be addressed based upon legal precedent and the US Constitution.
     
  19. CatholicCrusader

    CatholicCrusader Banned

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    iman beings who have been okayed for slaughtetr.
    ....and yet that's exactly what liberals have done: They have made murder legal, imposing their immorality on our legal system.

    The people never passed a law legalizing abortion. That was imposed by a liberal court. So don't twist the facts please.

    And besides, murder is already against the law. The problem is that the law is not protecting all human beings. There is a segment of the people that are not protected. So don't spout off to me about imposing opinions; the imposition of the court's opinion is spilling innocent blood, just like the imposition of the court's opinion kept black people in chains for decades.
     
  20. Makedde

    Makedde New Member Past Donor

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    Abortion is not murder. If it is, please show us the relevant law which states that it is murder.
     
  21. CatholicCrusader

    CatholicCrusader Banned

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    I have demonstrated the scientific reality that it is murder. What the current law does is allow murder.

    Its quite simple really: When you kill an innocent human life, that is murder. The fact that the law is currently allowing it does not make me wrong, it makes the law wrong. United States history is full of examples or immoral laws that were later reversed.

    Let me ask you a question: If the Supreme Court ruled tomorrow that men had the right to kill their wives when they got tired of them, would you just go along with the Court's ruling simply because it was a Supreme Court ruling? I am quite sure you would not. So please do not hide behind Court rulings when the reality of the situation proves that the ruling is wrong and immoral. That was the whole point of the OP, trying to get beyond legalisms and get into TRUTH.
     
  22. Cady

    Cady Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    From an online biology text:

     
  23. Blasphemer

    Blasphemer Well-Known Member

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    Legalisation of something does not impose anything on anyone. It increases freedom, not restricts it.
     
  24. CatholicCrusader

    CatholicCrusader Banned

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    And what about the freedom of the children in the womb?
     
  25. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    At some point I would agree that the fetus is a human .. but clearly in the early stages it is not.

    Having human DNA, or a few human cells does not = a human.
     
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