The makeup of the pro-abortion position/worldview

When I think of goodness….the pro-abort Worldview does not come to mind. After debating here….after reading what the opposition has to say…I think this one issue affects all others.

Now I realize there are rules on this forum; we can't attack the person directly (although this goes on all the time)….wanted to focus on what it takes to be pro-abortion, the position. What drives it?

I think that it only makes sense however that a person who holds a particular worldview is defined by it. I am a Christian….Christ defines my worldview and affects the moral decisions of my life. If someone is not a believer….what defines them? Are more people who are pro-abortion non believers? Is that why there are so many pro-aborts that bash religion? There are atheists however that are pro-life.

If one is a Republican….they more than likely are against big government, pro-gay marriage, are pro-life…etc.
If one is a Democrat…they more than likely want the government running our lives, believe in gay marriage, group marriage and are pro-death to unborn children…even until nine months.

How does this one moral issue or stance affect everything else? How does it affect the world?



These are things that come to my mind when I hear pro-abortion.

Immoral….Malicious…..Vile….Evil…….

 

I think of people who are extremely liberal and anti-family, also tend to reject god. A worldview that represents people who are into themselves and don't really care about others…especially care about what society has always stood for morally. I get a real sense that many that represent this worldview have been deeply wounded and that is why they blame the world (take it out on unborns)….they are the ones who are really bitter. For me they see a twisted world of confusion…no right, no wrong.

I don't think life as represented by this worldview…is sustainable. If we remove from society that which is good…and in this case the idea that life is worth something….and that the unborn is nothing, that the elderly is nothing….then what is next for them?

 

Well I am not really pro-abortion I am pro-choice if all people decided tomorrow that they weren't going to get an abortion I really wouldn't care.

I can only speak for myself however, I believe it's a woman's body and her choice up to a certain amount of time except under extreme circumstances. I haven't seen compelling evidence that a fertilized egg is a person as it doesn't have the attributes that we consider one like consciousness, being sentient or even aware. I have asked for evidence before but it usually boils down to since it has human DNA it is equitable to a person which is stupid for many reasons like every cell has human DNA though we don't care about every cell for obvious reasons.

I am however an atheist but my atheism has little to nothing to do with my world view except the lack of belief in a God so any atheist that bashes religion instead of arguing the facts is not really helping as bashing religion solves nothing and makes you look like a (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*). Though I am also a registered republican and self identified conservative though have never adopted the pro-life side of the party platform.

Hopefully that explains my opinion anyway.

 

i get that vibe from you evil is what you don’t like I guess

 

I am a moral utilitarian, that means what increases wellbeing (reduces suffering) of sentient creatures is good, what increases suffering (reduces wellbeing) of sentient creatures is bad.

Abortion is a pretty easy utilitarian problem - it increases wellbeing of one sentient creature (the woman), while it does not harm any other sentient creatures (a fetus is not sentient). Its comparable to eating plants when it comes to morality. Hence abortion should be allowed, as long as the fetus does not have a mind.

 

Like how you can make out abortion to be bad because most Democrats support its legality - who also support big government in the economy...

You can make out true free markets to be bad because most (arguably) Republicans support it - who also support big government in the military/my bedroom/my bong.


This is how the two parties fight among themselves, when in reality it's possible to believe in both true free markets AND social liberalism. Simply - you can do whatever you want so long as it doesn't harm others.


Now, abortion is a difficult issue because it revolves around who the "others" are in the above statement. The pro-choice crowd figures for a variety of reasons that fetuses either aren't worthy of the right to life due to a lack of sentience (eg: Peter Singer), or think that the mother has the right to remove any parasite from her body, right to life or none (see Judith Thomson's violinist example).

Nobody in this debate is anti-family. Neither anti-choice. Neither anti-life. We all have similar values in this regard, we simply differ on how to best exemplify these values.

 

Like how you can make out abortion to be bad because most Democrats support its legality - who also support big government in the economy...

You can make out true free markets to be bad because most (arguably) Republicans support it - who also support big government in the military/my bedroom/my bong.


This is how the two parties fight among themselves, when in reality it's possible to believe in both true free markets AND social liberalism. Simply - you can do whatever you want so long as it doesn't harm others.


Now, abortion is a difficult issue because it revolves around who the "others" are in the above statement. The pro-choice crowd figures for a variety of reasons that fetuses either aren't worthy of the right to life due to a lack of sentience (eg: Peter Singer), or think that the mother has the right to remove any parasite from her body, right to life or none (see Judith Thomson's violinist example).

Nobody in this debate is anti-family. Neither anti-choice. Neither anti-life. We all have similar values in this regard, we simply differ on how to best exemplify these values.

 

I think abortion is, more often than not, supported by women that have bought into the feminist idea of "female power" and dominance. They see pregnancy has something that could potentially get in the way of their careers, and anything that might hold them back from achieving the same power as men has to be destroyed, in their view. Needless to say, most of these women are not married, nor have any plans of becoming so. If they are married, they are often the dominant ones in the relationship, and seek out emasculated men whom they can push around. Sorry to say, but it's true.

Their whole outlook is based on the premise of "female oppression", because if they go around having sex like men they, as women, face the potential consequence of pregnancy.

In reality, it has nothing to do with "the right to choose". It's all about "female empowerment" — never mind that half those fetuses they are aborting are females.


I just wonder how many babies have to be tossed onto the altar of "women's rights".

 

na your just blaming something you don’t like on something else you don’t like

 

Well if it's not that, what is it?
It's certainly not about the "right to choose". Liberals have shown time and time again that they oppose that - whether its what type of light bulbs I can use in my own house, or who an employer can hire and what he has to pay his employees. What about the claim that they think the woman should be the one given responsibility over such a life or death decision? No, it's not that either, because most Liberals do not think a man is responsible enough to be trusted with a gun. Could it be that they don't believe the woman should have to "punished" as a result of her own actions? If so, why does it seem like they want to punish those who earn more money through excessive taxes? What about the argument that the life of the fetus is not that important? These are the same Liberals who cry bloody murder if they suspect that some minority might have been even the least bit discriminated against. So, tell me Liberals, what happens to all your "equality" when it comes to the unborn baby? Is there some empathy switch in your brain that suddenly just clicks off? You complain that conservatives are cold-hearted, but take a look at yourselves!

 

no it about choice but you have a point that liberals are not prochoice on everything

 

Skeptical Heretic

I hate to burst your higher opinion of yourself…but you are pro-abortion. You want abortion legal. You believe that a woman has the right to kill the already started new life inside her. You choose to look away. Is there something wrong with abortion? If there is….why do you condone it? If there isn't why don't you celebrate your position? Would you also have turned your head to slavery had your neighbors owned them? Are you saying the North should have looked away? Should we have looked away from the actions of Hitler?
You are pro-abortion..whether you would get one yourself or not. YOU WANT IT LEGAL..you want no protection for the unborn. Why? Obviously because you believe the woman should have the right to her body. So if you think this…then those bodily rights should be afforded to her throughout the entire pregnancy. That would mean you also should condone abortion…up until natural delivery. Anything less…based on your position on abortion, you enslave the woman to a pregnancy she does not want.

I was right….you want it legal because its her body. Now you have no right to deny her rights to her body..because that life as it grows looks more like a baby and can do more things. This is totally hypocritical and illogical based on your position. You say two things….YES ITS HER BODY SHE HAS THE RIGHT….then…..BUT SHE LOSES THOSE RIGHTS WHEN THE BABY STARTS TO LOOK LIKE A BABY.

It is however your religion…you believe by faith as I do as a Christian. Our views on God affect what we morally believe. You say there is no god (you however believe by faith-you can't prove there is not in fact..no god) and because of it…your morality is based on that. Mine is the opposite. Mine is based on the moral principles of God. It is unbelievably hard for me to swallow that you are a Republican and conservative. Curious….your against gay marriage? Big Government?

I could never vote for a candidate who was pro-abortion…which would eliminate anyone who is a Democrat. I could never give my vote to an organization that turned its back on life. How could you ever vote Republican based on the fact that they are against abortion being legal. I see a clash of something here.

 

Liberals are against allowing parents to decide where their children can go to school. They force them to stay in public schools where they can be brainwashed by the NEA's worldview. They are against Vouchers….

Guns? Drugs? Marriage?

 

And now in New York…they tell people what to drink and how much of it they can have. LMAO And in WAshington Michelle Obama is busy working on our kids lunches and denying parental rights to send what food they think their children should have. Democrats whine…and whine pointing the finger at Republicans about being so anti-everything…and its the other way around. The Democrats want the laws…why? They believe the government should raise our children that it knows better what our children need.

 

Liberals have never advocated that parents have no choice in their children's education. They are firm against growing the government by distribution of school vouchers. Children are not forced to stay in public schools (unless their parents force them). School choice already exists and you, as a proponent of small government, shouldn't be advocated making the government bigger.

 

It is neither hypocritical nor illogical to set a time limit on abortion choice. Women, except for health reasons of self or fetus, can make a decision within whatever time parameters are set by their states laws, and they will, because women do not request late-term abortions on an elective basis.

Strange then, that Christians have such different ideas as to what those moral principles really are. But to be consistent, those against "Big Government" must necessarily oppose government getting involved in regulating pregnancy.

Here's a news flash for ya...it's extremely rare to find a candidate that one agrees with 100%. Each of us must choose what issues are most important to us and try to find a candidate that espouses those views. There are pro-life Democrats just as there are pro-choice Republicans. So if you strictly follow party lines in voting, you are likely to vote for a candidate that doesn't support your views.

 

Oh yes. How else would our children be brainwashed by left wing liberal radicals? Our schools are run by the biggest union in the country…the NEA. The NEA calls the shots…and is in bed with the DEmocratic Party. Thats who is in control. And if vouchers were allowed and schools could compete..no one in their right minds would send their kids to public schools. Growing the government? Hell they want big government and one reason we are in the trouble we are today….Obama spending…spending. They thing they know how to raise our children…and the best way is to send them to public schools. LIke any business….schools should be competing…for students. That is the only way they will get better…and Democrats and Liberals don't like that idea. They love freedom when it comes to abortion….but if parents want something better for their children….no way do they want that. Choice existed too…when abortion was illegal. If a woman wanted to take matters into her own hands she could. I should not have to pay taxes to the government for schools…if my kid does not attend. Either give vouchers or take it off taxes. Democrats are all about forcing people into situations where they have to depend on the government. This election is all about that.
Obama will probably get elected….and who wants him in office? The moochers and the racists…who are voting for him just because he is black….AND FOR WHAT THE GOVERNMENT/OBAMA MONEY…WILL GIVE THEM. The economy is so bad…people are hurting so bad…that they figure at least if Obama is in…I will get something free.

 

Straw man!!

 

I wana play to
all of us pro- legal abortion people are just in it for the evil because we hate baby’s and family and god and puppy’s and what not

Has nothing to do with believing a women has more rights than a fetus its strictly out of spite and hatred

 

You want to know the make-up and world view of those who support abortion? This quote from stroll explains plenty:

 

By your definition of pro-abortion I probably could be considered it. Though if you ask if there is anything wrong with abortion yes I do I would rather decrease the amount of abortions and unnecessary surgical procedures though this is similar to my opinion on plastic surgery I would rather see them decrease but I wouldn't take away their choice, I can't think many people would celebrate abortion I have a lot of positions that I don't celebrate like my opinions on free speech I think for example holocaust deniers should be allowed to have their views and express them I don't like them I actually find them detestable but I support their rights but I don't celebrate with them. Also slavery has nothing to do with it slaves were people and people should not be owned by other people.

Though nothing about my opinion that's hypocritical, I believe up until the fetus is a conscious life the woman has a right to her body, I think the reasoning behind this is self-explanatory if you want me to go into more detail jutting ask. Also it has nothing to do with "it looking more like a baby" it's to do with conscious life vs unconscious life, the woman in my opinion has the right to choose up until it becomes a sentient being that can feel pain after this I don't think it's the woman's right to choose except under extreme circumstances ie life of the mother or fetus during pregnancy is in danger.

Though atheism is not a religion it's a response to the claim that there is a God other than that it has no bearing on my beliefs. Nothing faith based about it I'm afraid I say there is a lack of evidence proving a God exists so until such proof is provided I will not accept the claim of a God also if atheism is a religion not collecting stamps is a hobby. Though you can doubt I am a republican all you want though I have voted for a republican for president in every election I've been able to not because of some party allegiance but because I support the fiscal policies of the party. Also I don't know how someone can doubt that I am a conservative but what does being against gay marriage have to do with conservatism? I am actually for gay marriage though feel if it is possible for marriage to not be anything to do with government, I've been on the fence about this for a while. Though I hate it when people say "big government" the term is so vague if you are referring to taxes I am for a low flat tax and want government spending decreased across the board, if you are referring to social policies I want a limited government on them and believe in individual rights though unlike many people I'm not an anti-federalist I am a very strong supporter in federalism and the 14th amendment.

Though I don't like single issue voters that's why I vote republican I believe in the fiscal policies of the republican party even if I disagree with some social ones though by this logic I couldn't vote for anyone since no one supports my opinion 100%. I've tried to influence the republican party to my side by voting in the primaries this time I supported Jon Huntsman though that didn't work very well, I try to get support for some libertarians as well. Though you can't really say there is any candidate that supports your opinion to the letter so I could switch this why would you ever support a candidate that doesn't support your entire beliefs I would imagine you would say the same as me.

 

OKgrannie said,

Oh yes excuse me…your are not a hypocrite because you have stated that you are pro-abortion throughout the entire pregnancy. No woman no matter what the reason and the month she is in should be denied an abortion. She should be able to walk into a clinic and kill her child. As long as you continually stand on that…you are not…but if you vary from it you are. And in some threads I think you have wavered.





"I said I prefer no law limiting abortion. It works in Canada and it will work here. Women don't request abortion in late gestation anyway, so no law is necessary to prevent late-term abortions."

You are pro-killing the unborn. You want no laws to protect it. Isn't it the woman's body? Is it not her right to choose? What business do you have telling her she can't do something…that you have already said she should be allowed to do? Why would you make the comment…I want no restrictions…BUT THEY ARE NOT DONE THAT MUCH ANYWAY.

DOES IT MATTER IF THEY ARE?







http://www.republicansforchoice.com/[/QUOTE]