Women In The Military

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by upside-down cake, Oct 26, 2012.

  1. upside-down cake

    upside-down cake Well-Known Member

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    I suppose I could begin by asking myself why must I post something that is bad, and I'd say that it was because everyone else likes to post the good. I'd also say because the wrong things get silenced, criticized, and shoved into a corner. We all have our images of how we think things are. What I hope to do, little by little, is show you...something else. A bit of reality that might make you think that there possibly could be something wrong with the things you are taught to praise.

    Today, I want to call your attention to a documentary called

    "The Invisible War"

    which takes into account the women who serve in our armed forces...and are raped by the men who serve in our armed forces.

    Now, this is not about there being rapists in the military. In any grouping, there will be this sort of people among other kinds of criminals and deviants. The problem is that when these women sought out help, they were almost invariably shut out from their brethren, threatened, and sometimes, re-offended numerous times. Sometimes by numerous others.

    This is women in the work place, 2012. Women in the military. I was tempted to turn this off after the first ten minutes because it made me sick and I didn't want to hear more of this kind of thing, but I made myself watch the rest. Why? Because in my posts I claim, generally, to be advocating for a better America. How much of a hypocrite would I be if I couldn't even face the real troubles that exist within our nation?

    If you have watched this, and you like talking about a better America, find a way to help these women who were betrayed serving our nation.
     
  2. kenrichaed

    kenrichaed Banned

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    Don't women in the military have guns?

    I'd say that if they can't even shoot the guys raping them how are they gonna shoot the enemy?

    More of a reason to kick em out.

    Plus they can't aim straight cause their boobs get in the way.
     
  3. KSigMason

    KSigMason Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    Because of (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*) bags in the military who rape, there is implemented several new programs to assist victims and prevent as best anyone can. I have asked to go through the Victims Advocate training.

    I know when my Platoon deployed we had only two girls versus 25 men. The leadership came together and made a pact that no harm will come to either of the female soldiers. The one I'll call her "H" would have castrated whoever tried to touch her and the other "T" had her best friend, a male soldier, around her 24-7 and I knew she was safe.
     
  4. kenrichaed

    kenrichaed Banned

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    Women bring no extra benefits to combat yet they bring more complications.

    They certainly can do the job just fine but there is no reason to add that problem to a situation when its not necessary. The women aren't the problem, its the many ignorant douchbag guys that create the problems and your not going to get rid of them unfortunately so for that reason I would remove women from all frontline duties and keep them as support.

    Men did not invent pantyhose so women can wear combat fatigues. They should stick with nursing.
     
  5. KSigMason

    KSigMason Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    They only complicate things because (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)s can't get over their sexist ideals. One of my best crew chiefs is a female and my sister is one of the most stellar soldiers I know. If a female can carry her weight

    Do they not have the same right to serve their country as men do?

    Maybe you should leave the 50s and join us in the present day.
     
  6. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    So it's your opinion that every time a female gets pregnant on active duty it's entirely the fault of a "sexist" male. Have I got that about right?

    Serving in the military is not a right to begin with, so it's a moot question.

    I'll bet you can hardly wait for that banner day when the CiC appoints as Chairman (or Chairwoman, or Chairperson, or Chairthing) of the JCS a guy who used to be a girl or vice versa. :cool:
     
  7. IgnoranceisBliss

    IgnoranceisBliss Well-Known Member

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    The culture of the military tends to lead to a culture of underreporting by victims. Someone who's suppossed to go and kill the enemy isn't "suppossed" to be a victim. That said, much of my hesitation in joining you on this crusade are the people who are behind such documentaries as "The Invisible War." In my experience, a certain liberal component of society (this isn't a democrat/republican thing) are extremely anti-military. They see the military as a bastion for conservatism and aggression that doesn't jive with their view of the world. This element goes way out of its way to attack the military whenever possible. They are more than happy to overexaggerate a problem and in some cases even outright lie. Finally, almost none of them actually have military experience and base their arguments off of a small minority of ex-servicemen with an axe to grind against the military (either justifiably or not). The military is an extremely polarizing organization. It kicks out tens of thousands of servicemembers a year for a variety of reasons and inevitably alienates/pisses off many more.

    In examining any issue such as this in the military, I would be extremely cautious in listening to ancedotal evidence from a few dozen former servicemembers claiming X, Y and Z. I'm not claiming sexual assault isn't a problem in the military, it is, but in my experience it's not anywhere as bad or systemic as these outsiders claim.
     
  8. Casper

    Casper Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    If you had ever served you would know that they do not have their weapons at all times.
     
  9. KSigMason

    KSigMason Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    No, not at all. I've known a few females who became pregnant on active duty, but most of them planned it out with their spouse. But then again a female being pregnant doesn't complicate things. Sure their duty is limited during their time, but when I had knee surgery I was put on desk duty after my convalescent leave and that lasted until I got out of physical therapy (roughly 6-months). And don't put words in my mouth.

    So women should be restricted on serving? In any aspects of life, shouldn't it be the best who serve? If a woman can serve in a combat position should she not serve? Who are you to say otherwise just because you can't wrap your mind around it? It's not the womens' fault you are not capable of accepting their service.

    I could honestly care less what their JCS's gender is. I want the most qualified person in the position. My time in the military I've found that one's gender, skin color, religious affiliation, or sexual orientation has nothing to do with their performance in the military.
     
  10. IgnoranceisBliss

    IgnoranceisBliss Well-Known Member

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    There's an entire thread (in fact more than 1 one of them) dedicated to the topic of Women in Combat. Lets keep that discussion in that thread and the issue of sexual assault in this one.
     
  11. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    Who the hell do you think you're kidding?

    If 20% of males could heal as fast as Wolverine of the X-Men, would battle readiness be improved by requiring half the combat positions to be filled by members of the 80% group? And if not, how is battle readiness improved by the inclusion of personnel for whom a normal biological process makes them unfit for battle?

    Since I merely drew a perfectly reasonable - and as yet unfalsified - conclusion from your assertion, the admonition is wasted on yours truly.

    The question is moot, because it is always the best who serve, as determined by whoever does the hiring. In the case of the US military, those responsible for hiring have decided that battle readiness is secondary to its capacity for appeasing angry feminists and perverts.

    Who do I have to be, other than a US citizen?

    Actually, the lack of mental capacity in this regard is all yours...

    ...as indicated by your evident belief in this chimerical concept.
     
  12. KSigMason

    KSigMason Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    The thread is called "Women in the Military" and that's what we're discussing.

    So because a woman can become pregnant she shouldn't be able to serve in a combat role?

    And if you're aunt had balls, she'd be your uncle. If a guy is incapable of treating a women like a fellow soldier and a part of the team, and simplifying her to her reproductive role like you're doing, then they really need to step back and evaluate where their life is. Pathetic ideology if you ask me.

    Then you're using faulty logic if that was the conclusion you drew.

    LMAO!!! If you think its the best always serving then you are either lying or completely delusional. Plus, if you are excluding those based on their gender then you are not giving a fair chance to choose the best. Or are you implying that woman cannot "be the best" for serving?

    So you think you're entitled to tell women they can't serve as equally as men?

    .
    Says the man with bigoted and outdated beliefs.

    So what is so "chimerical" about my belief that women who can serve should serve? My belief is at least based on experience
     
  13. Herkdriver

    Herkdriver New Member

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    Aside from personality disorders, another cause for early separation is illegal drug use, predominantly marijuana usage...and males are far more likely to suffer from drug and alcohol abuse issues which leads to early separation and discharge, than their female counterparts.
     
  14. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    Well duh.

    Not that that's the only reason, but no sense going into the others when you refuse to see the most obvious one.

    Obviously I'm not doing any such thing, although I'm aware that your affinity for your prejudices compels you to twist my words.

    Then surely it is passing strange that you're the one who rests his logic on a patent falsehood.

    I don't just think, I know; and were you not so determined to misunderstand, you would see that the point is by no means arguable.

    You betcher sweet bippy I am. :)

    I said precisely what I meant, and no rephrasing is necessary - other than to create expedient confusion, of course.
     
  15. kenrichaed

    kenrichaed Banned

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    If you have watched this, and you like talking about a better America, find a way to help these women who were betrayed serving our nation.

    They need to help themselves.

    If they are that adament about serving with a bunch of guys all pumped up on testosterone from boot camp, more power to em.

    I was always told that the best way to avoid problems is not to put yourself in situations where you can have problems in the first place. Instead of whining about it why don't the women get together and start raping the men back?

    Oh yea, because first of all, they are non-violent (great trait to have when your job is to kill people)

    Second of all, they would get their asses kicked by the guys because women are physically inferior,

    There is absolutely no reason for women to be in combat roles other then to stoke their own feminist ego's. Our military doesn't need them to do the job, guys would be happier if they weren't there, about the only ones benefitting from this are the lawyers who have to represent women because they are getting abused.

    DON'T STICK YOUR F*****G HAND IN THE BEEHIVE AND YOU WONT GET STUNG!

    This is no excuse for the guys doing it but many of them are idiots and filth so women who put themselves in that situation are putting themselves at risk. If I put on a suit and go hangout downtown in the seedy parts I can pretty much assume I'm getting mugged.

    A little common sense goes a long way.
     
  16. KSigMason

    KSigMason Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    Pregnancy is not certain and avoidable, but should never be a reason for such disgusting discrimination.

    You're the one saying we should discriminate based on what's between our legs.

    I base my opinion on experience of actually serving.

    You are really naive then. If you think those who have served have always been the best you are really, really naive.

    Maybe you should go back to the 50s with that outdated and stupid ideology because it has no place in a civilized, rational world.

    Well you have no place to tell women they can or cannot serve.

    They serve to serve, just like men.

    Speaking as a soldier I'll say this is complete BS.
     
  17. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    Evidently you've forgotten your own argument which was based on the claim that "a female being pregnant doesn't complicate things", which everyone knows is pure drivel.

    No, you're really dishonest...

    ...which in a sense is understandable. If I were serving under a CiC who is an enemy of the US, I don't suppose I'd be terribly eager to check out the rest of the iceberg either.

    Maybe you should go back to the 70's when telling commonsensical people they should go back to the 50's wasn't such a threadbare cliche. ;)
     
  18. KSigMason

    KSigMason Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    You assume a great too much. I haven't forgotten that point of mine. Simply because a female can get pregnant doesn't mean she will, nor should this be used against her to deny her serving in the military in a role she may be capable of performing in..

    Nope. Everything I said I said in pure honesty and my integrity is intact.

    Listen, I have been in over 10-years nor is my service or integrity affected by who is serving as Commander-in-Chief. Nor am I an Obama fan and those who have been on this Forum for some time would know that.

    I find men whose masculinity is threatened by the thought of serving with women to be pathetic children and wretches.
     
  19. KSigMason

    KSigMason Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    There's no common sense in the bull(*)(*)(*)(*) you have been spewing out. If you'd pull your head out of your ass maybe you'd realize your a (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*).

    I'm curious, how often do you hit your wife?
     
  20. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I get it. You hope to obscure the glaring imbecility of your original claim with a smokescreen of moldy old feminist talking points.

    Yep. Either that or you're nutty as a fruitcake.

    No, YOU listen: you clean missed the point, and probably on purpose.

    Not interersted.

    Nothing commonsensical makes sense to people who think with their anger - which is to say, people like you.

    I believe I'll just let this speak for itself.
     
  21. KSigMason

    KSigMason Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    No you don't get it. I made my point which is supported by actual experience and not some antiquated belief. Yes, you know me so well, I'm a feminist...laughable. I'm a libertarian and support the belief that the best should serve regardless of their gender, race, religion, or social status.

    If supporting liberty and equality then lock me up.

    No I didn't, but that's okay, I've learned not to expect much from you on this topic.

    I'm not speaking from anger, I'm speaking from a logical, rational, and from the side of liberty/equality which rejects anger. You're pushing a belief that is fostered in bigotry and thus is the anger.
     
  22. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    On the contrary, I get it all too well.

    Problem is, you've been caught trying to pass off an obvious lie as truth in front of God and everybody, and now you're trying to pretend it never happened; so you have no credible testimony to offer about your "actual experience" or anything else.

    One does not support liberty with lies.

    Yes you did.

    Yes, it is hardly unexpected that angry people will attempt, however impotently, to project their anger onto (if not into) others.

    Anyway, I can't have anything like a meaningful exchange with a wall of denial, so the conversation terminates here.
     
  23. Herkdriver

    Herkdriver New Member

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    KSig, serves in the Idaho Army NG, which by the way has deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan. It's not your grand-father's national guard, it hasn't been for over a decade. Reservists and Guardsman deploy to hazardous duty areas right along with the regulars. My hope is, you can argue your point without insulting the man or questioning his credibilty.

    I happen to agree with the soldier, mainly that women in uniform are categorically deemed a detriment to unit cohesion, by and large because of the "boys club / fraternity of misogynists" dogma so ingrained in the combat arms. The mere fact they are there serving alongside a male counterpart should not open them up to undue harrassment or discrimination. They may not belong in certain ground combat units on legitimate grounds relating to physical strength, but they have more than earned their right to be called warriors equal to any man they serve with. Over 400 women have been killed in operations relating to the global war on terrorism in the past 11 years...I see no difference in the flags draped on their caskets as to their fellow brothers-in-arms. All paid the ultimate price for their country, and deserve recognition and respect for doing so.
     
  24. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    I don't give a damm if he's a Ranger or a SEAL. A lie is a lie.

    Not with him I can't - not as long as he continues to employ the rhetorical equivalent of insisting that 1+1=3.

    How in Hell can I NOT question his credibility when he maintains that "a female being pregnant doesn't complicate things" for a combat unit?

    How?

    Me either. I just think their brothers, husbands or boyfriends should have ended up under those flags instead.

    I guess that makes me a misogynist.
     
  25. KSigMason

    KSigMason Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    You don't, but its okay.

    I haven't lied once. Please show where I lied.

    I have served my State and Country honorable since 2002. I have taken part in war-fighter exercises all over the world, most of them with the active duty military. I have deployed twice in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom III in Kirkuk, Iraq, and then in support of Operation New Dawn in An Nasariyah, Iraq, and Al Amarah, Iraq. I have served in a variety of roles as an Intelligence Analyst (worked at Battalion, Brigade, and Division level) where I worked with SF/ODA, Marines, AF, Navy, foreign military units, and civilian intelligence agencies. I also went out on the road with the HUMINT guys. I've also worked logistics and now I'm ending my career as an Instructor-Operator for the Shadow Unmanned Aircraft Systems which in Iraq I worked with not only my units, but assisted units under 1st CAV and 4th ID. I finished off my last deployment on COS Garry Owen (Al Amarah) with the 3/8 CAV BN where I worked as the Shift Supervisor. Outside of my main duties I served my men and women as a counselor, chaplain (if needed), and all-around go-to guy (if you needed it, I could get it). Back in Idaho I served as the State representative for unmanned aviation (safety and standardization meetings, DES, FORSCOM, NGB, etc), acting BN S2 NCOIC, acting BDE S2 NCOIC, security officer, recovery detachment ULLS-G/S-4 NCOIC, and the list goes on.

    Now please, tell me when/where you served and what makes you qualified to tell me women shouldn't serve in certain roles?

    The fact of the matter is you are discriminating against women. You are simplifying them down to their reproductive parts and dismissing their abilities. It's absurd and wrong. In my 10+ years of service to this country I can say women bring just as much to the table as men. I'm not saying every woman needs to be thrown in the front lines and every Infantry unit, but what I am saying is those who are able to serve should serve regardless of their gender.

    I'd treat them no different if they became pregnant. Their duty may change while carrying, but once cleared there should be no reason they go back to duty. Plus, as I said before, the mere possibility that they may become pregnant shouldn't exclude them from serving. If we were to play this what-if game then we wouldn't have a strong standing military.

    Yes, among other things.
     

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