Obama Taking Us Over the Fiscal Cliff As He Proposes MORE Spending

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by JP5, Nov 29, 2012.

  1. JP5

    JP5 Former Moderator Past Donor

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    Wow. Look at this crazy so-called offer. More spending in the form of another "Stimulus" giveaway to his buds.....and he also wants a permanent end to Congressional control over statutory borrowing limits. Thank God the Republicans promptly turned it down. More proof this president hasn't a clue about how to fix this economy and he does NOT care that he's trying to increase spending and really take this country down. OH, and he wants to take 45% of estates inheritance taxes over $3.5million...something even Democrats in the Senate rejected. And now the arrogant so-and-so is going off on a Hawaii 17-day vacation. I say go ahead and let him take us over the cliff. With his unwillingness to negotiate and arrogance that he can do as he (*)(*)(*)(*)ed well pleases.....it won't be long for the American people to turn on him, as he puts us into another recession and takes the country down. Let's see if ABC, CBS, and NBC will keep supporting him then.

    WASHINGTON — House Republicans said on Thursday that Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner presented the House speaker, John A. Boehner, a detailed proposal to avert the year-end fiscal crisis with $1.6 trillion in tax increases over 10 years, an immediate new round of stimulus spending, home mortgage refinancing and a permanent end to Congressional control over statutory borrowing limits.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/30/u...s-in-congress-seem-to-reach-impasse.html?_r=0
     
  2. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

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    The President has no re-election any longer, so he is going to take the most farthest leftist positions now.

    Proposals like ending the debt ceiling requirement is far even for me to admit, and wealthy Democrats want to pass on wealth to their children without the government taking half of it, so that's pretty extreme on his part.

    Both sides want to get re-elected and both side will take a hit if there isn't a compromise for the fiscal cliff, it would be interesting what the outcome is and if Republicans actually agree to these revenue increases. They have said they will not raise the tax rate, so the President may actually get away with all of these other demands as a way to compromise.

    These measures won't be as hard to remove in law as a passage of an income tax increase, but they surely are practical in a negotiation, taxpayers subsidizing stimulus spending, mortgages, inheritance, these are all deals that could never be on the table in the past and now they are.
     
  3. montra

    montra New Member

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    Turn on Obama? LOL. You watch, everything that will go wrong will be successfully blamed on the GOP/Tea Party/"W"/global warming/Israel/Donald Trump/capitalism/Glenn Beck/Rush Limbaugh courtesy of the press.

    How can anyone get angry at this face?

    View attachment 16471
     
  4. Indymom

    Indymom Well-Known Member

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    Republican Congress needs to stay strong! No deals on taxes without significant cuts. NO American taxpayer should fork over even one more dime in taxes when we know it will go to waste, and won't even make a dent is our problems. Cut spending first, then we can talk taxes.
     
    historicus and (deleted member) like this.
  5. Brewskier

    Brewskier Well-Known Member

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    Ending Congressional control over statutory borrowing limits will be the final nail in America's coffin.
     
  6. Think for myself

    Think for myself Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If finger pointing could be converted into cold, hard cash, I think we could easily pay off the debt.

    It seems rather clear that Obama has the Republicans by the sack, in my fine opinion. He has nothing to lose. He is not going to seek office again as far as I know. He does not have to run again.

    The GOP folks in Congress, on the other hand, can and probably will seek reelection. Do they want to be perceived as the folks that let the country go into default because they refused to end tax cuts to the very wealthy? I doubt it. Which is why, also in my fine opinion, they will give in to the president eventually and why they have been backtracking form the Norquist circle jerk.

    So it seems to me the president has made a proposal. It will be interesting to see what the Republicans can actually come back with. Probably more Benghazi (*)(*)(*)(*).
     
  7. Phoebe Bump

    Phoebe Bump New Member

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    I don't think yer gettin' it. You boys lost because the American people know exactly where the blame belongs.
     
  8. montra

    montra New Member

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    Blame for what?
     
  9. montra

    montra New Member

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    The American currency is no longer based upon anything since they went off the gold standard in 1971. Therefore, the only value is reputation. Now the big spenders in Washington can call the bluff of those that want spending cut by not agreeing to a deal. In the end, the American currency will be destroyed and blamed on the ones who wish to cut spending, even though this has to be done in order to save the currency in the longer term.

    Crazy stuff, but all that matters is who gets the blame I suppose.
     
  10. Phoebe Bump

    Phoebe Bump New Member

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    No, we can't talk taxes. Grover says so. There are pledges to be upheld.

    What do you consider waste? Paying the bills?
     
  11. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    On the spending side, the "fiscal cliff" is based on spending cuts, not spending increases. Spending cuts that will result in more people losing their jobs. You know, the stuff conservatives want to see.
     
  12. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    if republicans really thought he would fail they would stop attacking America and let him fall on his face.. obviously their real fear is he wont fail
     
  13. jackson33

    jackson33 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    With no passed budgets, continuing resolutions (based on baseline budgeting) and no ceiling in the Debt Ceiling...you can forget about cutting anything, with in the next four years. By then the cost to service our debt will top the trillion dollar mark per year as US credit ratings drops and interest rates to roll any due notes, reaches 5-7%. The House best stand their ground....
     
  14. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's what all our conservative friends told us 4 years ago. Instead, Obama was the first president in decades to actuall have cut spending in a fiscal year, has the lowest rate of increase in decades, and the govt now spend proportionately less than it did in some Reagan years.
     
  15. JP5

    JP5 Former Moderator Past Donor

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    BUT.....Republicans HAVE put tax hikes on the table.....by reducing deductions people over certain incomes get to take. It is Obama that put NOTHING on the table in regards to SPENDING CUTS. NOTHING.
    In fact, as the OP states, his only proposal is MORE SPENDING.

    Remember, we have a spending problem; not a revenue problem. The president is the top guy; it's his responsibility to turn around this over-spending problem we have. Bill Clinton did it at the beginning of his 2nd term along with a Republican Congress that ran on that pledge and took over Congress overwhelmingly. He went through each and every budget item and CUT, including Welfare. Obama is too beholding to his Union Base and promises he made to MoveOn.org in exchange for getting him re-elected.
     
  16. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What deductions are the Republicans proposing to cut?
     
  17. JP5

    JP5 Former Moderator Past Donor

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    EXACTLY. This isn't about protection of the rich. It's about keeping the money out of the hands of the Federal gov't because they will only spend it.....and more, as they always do. Taking money OUT of the private sector and putting in the government's hands is NEVER a good idea.

    You're right. Republicans should stay firm....on "cuts first." There's no way he will cut later.
     
  18. JP5

    JP5 Former Moderator Past Donor

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    Can you imagine he even proposed that??? That's because he KNOWS he must come to the House come January for yet another debt ceiling hike. He wants to take away....now.....every bargaining chip they have to get ACTUAL SPENDING CUTS.

    Yeah, when monkies fly......that's what I'd tell him.
     
  19. JP5

    JP5 Former Moderator Past Donor

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    Apparently Obama does give a (*)(*)(*)(*) what the history books will say about him either. That he couldn't get it done; that he never negotiated in good faith; that he's not a leader; that he operated like a dictatorship; that he blamed others for his failures his entire 8 years in office." Yeah, that will look real good for him in the history books.
     
  20. JP5

    JP5 Former Moderator Past Donor

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    We have an over-spending problem.....that's correct. The Republicans have already offered some additional tax revenues (tax hikes) in the form of cutting deductions from people making over a certain amount. NOW, it's Obama's turn.....to put some actual proposals for SPENDING CUTS on the table. So far, he won't do it. The Union and Moveon.org told him not to. He works for the liberal base; not for America.
     
  21. historicus

    historicus New Member

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    This was all predicted

    First by the Founders

    Then again in the 1890's

    Fair had a meaning until "democrats" turned it on its head

    http://www.fee.org/the_freeman/detail/the-progressive-income-tax-in-us-history/

    America’s founders rejected the income tax entirely, but when they spoke of taxes they recognized the need for uniformity and equal protection to all citizens. “[A]ll duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States,” reads the U.S. Constitution. And 80 years later, in the same spirit, the Fourteenth Amendment promised “equal protection of the laws” to all citizens.

    In other words, the principle behind the progressive income tax—the more you earn, the larger the percentage of tax you must pay—would have been appalling to the founders. They recognized that, in James Madison’s words, “the spirit of party and faction” would prevail if Congress could tax one group of citizens and confer the benefits on another group.

    In Federalist No. 10, Madison asked, “[W]hat are the different classes of legislators but advocates and parties to the causes which they determine?” He went on to say, “The apportionment of taxes on the various descriptions of property is an act which seems to require the most exact impartiality; yet there is, perhaps, no legislative act in which greater opportunity and temptation are given to a predominant party to trample on the rules of justice.”

    During the 1800s economic thinking in the United States usually conformed to the founders’ guiding principles of uniformity and equal protection. One exception was during the Civil War, when a progressive income tax was first enacted. Interestingly, the tax had a maximum rate of 10 percent, and it was repealed in 1872. As Representative Justin Morrill of Vermont observed, “in this country we neither create nor tolerate any distinction of rank, race, or color, and should not tolerate anything else than entire equality in our taxes.”

    When Congress passed another income tax in 1894—one that only hit the top 2 percent of wealth holders—the Supreme Court declared it unconstitutional. Stephen Field, a veteran of 30 years on the Court, was outraged that Congress would pass a bill to tax a small voting bloc and exempt the larger group of voters. At age 77, Field not only repudiated Congress’s actions, he also penned a prophecy. A small progressive tax, he predicted, “will be but the stepping stone to others, larger and more sweeping, till our political contests will become a war of the poor against the rich.”

    In 1913, almost 20 years later, the ideas of uniform taxation and equal protection of the law for all citizens were overturned when a constitutional amendment permitting a progressive income tax was ratified. Congress first set the top rate at a mere 7 percent—and married couples were only taxed on income over $4,000 (equivalent to $80,000 today). During the tax debate, William Shelton, a Georgian, supported the income tax “because none of us here have $4,000 incomes, and somebody else will have to pay the tax.” As Madison and Field had feared, the seeds of class warfare were sown in the strategy of different rates for different incomes.

    It took the politicians less than one generation to hike the tax rates and fulfill Field’s prophecy.



    "progressives" are anti-American by definition
     
  22. JP5

    JP5 Former Moderator Past Donor

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    I don't care if he falls on his face or not. I DO care about the country though....and what he's doing to it. Anybody who ever took Econ 101 knows more spending it NOT the answer when you have an over-spending problem. Just think about that: if you and your family are spending too much, gone into more debt than you can pay off....what is the first thing you do? You CUT SPENDING. It's no different for the federal gov't. The spending has gotten way out-of-hand and it's been going on for years now. Decades actually.
     
  23. JP5

    JP5 Former Moderator Past Donor

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    HUH???? Proof that backs up those claims please.
     
  24. Lowden Clear

    Lowden Clear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You and I don't want what Obama is dishing out but the American people do. They want more of what he has already done, not less. They don't want a budget, much less a balanced one. They don't want a limit to the debt ceiling, no spending cuts at all, they want more stimulus and higher taxes. This is the new American where even Putin warns us of our leaning too far left. Time to wake up and see reality because it is time to reach out and make the rich SOB pay even if it only runs the government for an additional 8 days without the need to borrow 40% of every dollar. This is it. We have arrived. We have finally made it to the promised land. That cliff you see up ahead? Its only a bump in the road.
     
  25. Lowden Clear

    Lowden Clear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You seem to forget, my friend, that Obama can make money appear from nowhere. He is the rain maker. It isn't time to cut back, it is time to floor it.
     

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