Recent Myth: “Israel does not attack; Israel retaliates”

I propose that on this forum the above Myth has been busted countless times. Yet a few weeks ago the same concept was floated by the Zionist apologists so as to justify Israel’s latest use of overwhelming force. So we can now add that to the following list of Zionist marketing achievements in the West – only the highlights because there are many more such as the ‘Lavon Affair’:

1) In 1948 Israel violated UNGA resolution 181, which she had agreed to, and embarked on a vicious programme of ethnic cleansing so as to solve her “demographic problem”. We were asked to believe that poor little peace-loving Israel was set upon by the mean bad surrounding Arab hoards, when in fact most of the ethnic cleansing ("transfer" in Zionist parlance) had occurred well before the Arab armies attacked.

2) In 1956 peace-loving Israel invaded Egypt. Zionist apologists try to white-wash even this overt aggression by claiming that Sinai was not part of Egypt, and Israel could therefore not have been the aggressor when she pulled the triggers in another first-strike operation.

3) General Moshe Dayan and UN observer officers confirmed that in 1966 Israel continuously provoked Syria along the Golan Heights until the Syrian military reacted and Israel had an “excuse” to attack. So much for “Israel does not attack; Israel retaliates”.

4) Impeccable archival references are available to show that in June 1967 Israel was under no threat of attack from Nasser and Egypt. Yet she launched a first-strike attack and then claimed it was a “defensive war”. The gullible West swallowed her marketing hook, line and sinker … and many continue to do so.

5) In 1982 Israel invaded Lebanon and that peace-loving little country slaughtered 20 000+ civilians. Zionist apologists claim that (does this ring a recent bell?) the invasion was in response to continuous rocket fire from Lebanon on northern Israel. Begin claimed it was in response for the PLO carrying out a botched assassination attempt in London on the Israeli UN ambassador. It seems even the apologists can’t reach agreement. In this recent thread both of these Myths were annihilated: http://www.politicalforum.com/middl...982-zionists-deny-guilt-3.html#post1061941367

6) In November 2008 Israel broke a ceasefire that had held for 5 months notwithstanding the fact that Israel had failed to deliver on her main obligation, namely to lift the sanctions/embargo on Gaza. In response to the logical Hamas retaliation for her breaking of the ceasefire, Israel slaughtered 1400+ Gazans during "Operation Cast Lead". She claimed it was her right to “defend” herself and the hypocritical West agreed. Does this yet again ring a recent bell?

And here follow two that we should (?) all be able to remember very clearly.
Ref: http://www.politicalforum.com/lates...e-now-recognized-state-18.html#post1062027435

7) In October 2012 Israel launched various attacks, killing Gazans. Zionist apologists forget this and point only to the subsequent reaction of rocket attacks by Hamas. A football player was then killed and in response an IDF jeep was attacked. The Western media saw only the latter. Well trained group of poodles, aren't they. Faux News, did you think no one was watching your hypocrisy?

8 ) In November Israel decided to assassinate a senior Hamas official. The Western media reacted in stunned amazement when Hamas hugely escalated the rocket attacks in response. All past events were forgotten in our media's condemnation of the deceitful terrorist Hamas organisation.

Along with testicle-less Obama, they insisted on Israel’s right to “defend” herself. Well done the BBC and its “Hub” which is supposed to provide insightful analysis of current events. It failed miserably. We were watching.

But on this forum I can do something positive besides write waste-bin fodder to the BBC. Hence this current thread.

 

Oooops. Culpa mea.

I forget the flair-up in rocket attacks in March 2012. It turn out that Israel started that one also (called Operation Returning Echo) as posted here: http://www.politicalforum.com/lates...e-now-recognized-state-19.html#post1062029685

Is it only me, or does that factual record make Israel look like it needs to go before the ICC?

 

I am afraid it is you. Your lies, distortions, omissions and revisions of history have been debunked hundreds of times.

 

I am just curious klip, how in your mind do you square these two 'accusations'. Granted both of them are absurd revisions of history but even if they are taken at face value don't you think they contradict one another?

In other words, according to you when in 1966 Israel provokes Syria and Syria reacts, it's Israel's fault...but when in 1967 Egypt provokes Israel (provocation is the mildest term that can describe kicking out UN peacekeepers, violating ceasefire agreements, massing huge number of troops and weapons on Israel's border, declaring daily about the imminent demise of Israel, closing the Straits etc) it's still Israel's fault?

As I said, your entire drivel is based on fantasy, not history...but still...don't you think you are a tad biased? LOL

 

Retorting to this phenomenon (rewriting history) extends to him more attention... The airheads around here think he is a god or something.

 

ISRAEL DOES NOT INITIATE IT RETALIATES...

Israel Security Agency Terror Data and Trends Monthly Summary – November
2012
http://www.shabak.gov.il/English/EnTerrorData/Reports/Pages/Nov12report-en.aspx

Israel Defense Forces operation Pillar of Defense took place on November
14-21, 2012. Throughout the operation, Israel absorbed a barrage of high
trajectory launchings from the Gaza Strip – over 1,700 rockets and nearly
100 mortar shells.

In response to the operation, Jerusalem and the Judea and Samaria also saw
an increase in the level of violence. The Judea and Samaria area with 122
attacks (98 occurred during the operation), as opposed to 39 in October; and
Jerusalem with 44 attacks (27 occurred during the operation), as opposed to
31 in October.

Five attacks inside the Green Line were recorded to have occurred this month
(one IED attack in Tel Aviv, two stabbing attacks in Be'er Sheva and Sdei
Avraham in southern Israel, and two firebomb attacks near Wadi Ara and
Nitzanei Oz, as well as three rocket attacks executed from Sinai against
Israel during the operation.

Six Israelis were killed (4 citizens and 2 soldiers) by Gazan rockets fired
into Israel during the operation. 269 Israelis were wounded, of which 231
were injured during the operation, most (21 suffered light injuries.

Amongst Israeli casualties, three were stabbed (two in Jerusalem on November
2 and 6; one in Be'er Sheva on November 2, 29 civilians were wounded by an
IED attack on a Tel Aviv bus (November 21). Four Israelis were injured by
firebombs / stone throwing in Judea: three civilians (a woman seriously
wounded), and a security officer wounded near Nitzanei Oz.

Data regarding terror attacks in November 2012

Following is a regional distribution of attacks:

637 attacks from the Gaza Strip (96 in October); 122 attacks in the Judea
and Samaria (39 in October); 44 attacks in Jerusalem (31 in October); 5
attacks within the "Green Line"; 3 attacks executed from Sinai.

Jerusalem and the Judea and Samaria area: Most attacks executed in November
(156 out of 166) were in the form of firebombs (October: 68 out of 70).

Distribution of attacks according to regions and pattern profile:

Following is a distribution of attacks in November 2012 according to
regions:

The Gaza Strip – 637 attacks: 598 rocket launchings; 32 mortar shell
launchings; 1 small arms shooting; 1 IED; 3 AT; 1 AA; 1 explosive tunnel
attack.

Judea, Samaria and Jerusalem – 166 attacks: 2 stabbing (in Jerusalem); 2
IED; 3 small arms shooting; 1 grenade throwing; 2 object/ stone throwing;
156 firebombs (42 in Jerusalem).

The Green Line – 5 attacks: 2 stabbing; 1 IED; 2 firebombs.

Sinai – 3 rocket attacks.

High-trajectory launchings from Gaza Strip and Sinai
Throughout November 2012, 1,734 rockets and 83 mortar shells were launched
towards Israel, (in 633 attacks), compared to 116 rockets and 55 mortar
shells, in October (in 92 attacks).

--------------------------------------------
IMRA - Independent Media Review and Analysis
Website: www.imra.org.il

 

This is a kid illustration (VIDEO) to the 'Myth Maker'... It fits like a glove.
Please watch to the end
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XmjDPYGR4Y

 

Then how come you have failed so utterly to refute the basic facts that Israel was the aggressor in the mega-events that I quoted? Seems like a massive flaw in your claim.

Let us test this claim of yours. I know that you SAY that my theses have been debunked, but I challenge that.

So let us take the recent thread on Lebanon 1982. Let me help you to try to find the "debunking" of my "lies, distortions, omissions and revisions of history".

Here is where HBendor's attempt to do so regarding Damour was trashed: http://www.politicalforum.com/middl...-1982-zionists-deny-guilt.html#post1061913159. I notice that you couldn't ameliorate his trashing.

Here is where HBendor's attempt to deflect away from 1982 by creating a 1976 strawman which was promptly revealed: http://www.politicalforum.com/middl...-1982-zionists-deny-guilt.html#post1061913792 Neither you nor anyone else tried to haul him out of the ashes.

Here is where HBendor pens his classic "ISRAEL DOES NOT INITIATE, ISRAEL RETALIATES..." mantra: http://www.politicalforum.com/middl...82-zionists-deny-guilt-2.html#post1061916299; and here is where he tried to justify it with his version of history: http://www.politicalforum.com/middl...982-zionists-deny-guilt-2.html#post1061930557. And here is where his one and only reason "justifying" Israel's invasion was sunk by my reiteration of factual observer reports; rock solid verifiable key historical documents.

Here is where Try-This attempted to cross swords with my OP: http://www.politicalforum.com/middl...982-zionists-deny-guilt-2.html#post1061930505 by questioning my evidence, and here is my response which caused him to disappear permanently off the radar screen: http://www.politicalforum.com/middl...982-zionists-deny-guilt-2.html#post1061932980

In an attempt to save face HBendor produced another typical strawman, and here http://www.politicalforum.com/middl...982-zionists-deny-guilt-3.html#post1061938244 it was blown out of the water. Here is HBendor's typical lame duck response: http://www.politicalforum.com/middl...982-zionists-deny-guilt-3.html#post1061938351

Here is the wrap-up of the thread. The OP that all of Israel's so-called justifications for her 1982 invasion of Lebanon and her slaughter of 20 000+ people were pure Myths remained rock solid.

And now you pop up like an unwanted advert and claim that I lied. So I challenge you, Borat, where was my mega-example of Israel's aggression refuted? Off you go Laddie and try to justify your "say-so". I will be reminding you periodically if you forget.

 

We all know that, HBendor. I claimed that those rocket attacks were triggered by various Israeli actions. Simply repeating the Zionist camouflage about evil Hamas rocket attacks is not good enough. Please refute myt claims that Israeli actions triggered there Hamas responses, if you want some credibility:

# Like were the March 2012 rocket attacks triggered by an assassination by Israel? I provide evidence to show that. You simple post that there were rocket attacks. Not a very convincing rebuttal as you can see.

# I claimed with reference that the November attack on a jeep was triggered by Israel's murder of a teenage football player and a known mentally disturbed man. All you do is to confirm that (non-Hamas) elements responded.

# I claimed that the assassination by Israel of a senior Hams official triggered the major November rocket barrage. All you did was to reiterate that that such attacks occurred.

Was this one of the debunkings that you referred to, Borat? If so ---- FAILED!!!

 

Firstly, allow me to address your claim that I practice "historical revisionism". Do you claim that Dayan did not make that admission contained in 3), and that UN Dutch observer Colonel Mehrtens did not confirm it? Secondly, do you claim that archives do NOT show that the Sabra generals and the European-born politicians did NOT realise fully that Nasser was NOT planning to attack? If so, please refute Rabin's interview with Le Monde, Begin's speech to the Naval college, Prime Minister Eshkol's and General Yidal's autobiographies, and the hundreds of referenced sources to IDF, War Cabinet records, and other Israeli documentation contained in Tom Segev's book "1967"

When you can do that, I will continue with the rest of your post. Should you forget, I will be reminding you periodically.

I do not like it when apologists post unsupported claims that I lie on this forum. I go to great trouble to substantiate my claims and to reference them, and not just to embark on "say so". See if you can come close, Borat.

 

In other words, Israel according to you provokes Syria - it's Israel's fault, Egypt cancels the armistice agreement, closes the Straits to Israeli ships, kick out peacekeapers, masses hundreds of thousands of troops, thousands of tanks and artillery on Israeli border, proclaims the imminent demise of Israel on every radio channel and in every speech - it's still Israel's fault.

Thanks klip, you've fully answered my question....no surprises here.

PS and lest I forget, the violation of armistice agreement = restoration of war...the closing of the Straits = an act of war, the kicking out of the peacekeepers = an act of war, the massing of troops in violation of the armistice agreement = an act of war...
On the same day, Nasser proclaimed: "The armies of Egypt, Jordan and Syria are poised on the borders of Israel ... to face the challenge, while standing behind us are the armies of Iraq, Algeria, Kuwait, Sudan and the whole Arab nation. This act will astound the world. Today they will know that the Arabs are arranged for battle, the critical hour has arrived. We have reached the stage of serious action and not of more declarations

Speaking to the UN General Assembly Nasser had stated that "The only solution to Palestine is that matters should return to the condition prevailing before the error was committed — i.e., the annulment of Israel's existence."

In 1964 he said, "We swear to God that we shall not rest until we restore the Arab nation to Palestine and Palestine to the Arab nation. There is no room for imperialism and there is no room for Britain in our country, just as there is no room for Israel within the Arab nation."

In 1965 he asserted, "We shall not enter Palestine with its soil covered in sand, we shall enter it with its soil saturated in blood."[SUP][107][/SUP]


President Abdul Rahman Arif of Iraq said that "the existence of Israel is an error which must be recitified. This is an opportunity to wipe out the ignominy which has been with us since 1948".[SUP][108][/SUP]The Iraqi Prime Minister predicted that "there will be practically no Jewish survivors".

 

You don't substantiate and reference your claims klip, you cherry-pick them. LOL That's still nothing but lying and you are not fooling anyone. The decades of muslim terrorism against jews in Palestine (starting in the 1920s), the arab unwillingness to comply with UN resolutions, the arab wars to wipe Israel off the map etc are completely omitted from your "narrative" and you are whining about your "substance". Get real buddy.

 

Operation Dawn was an Egyptian military operation planned to strike the Israeli Air Force, in the prelude to what would become the Six-Day War. The Egyptian attack plan would involve strategic bombing of major ports, the Negev Nuclear Research Center near Dimona, airfields and cities. Arab armies would then attack, effectively cutting Israel in half with an armoured thrust from northern Sinai via the Negev desert.[1]

Nasser had provoked Israel when he closed the Straits of Tiran. He was intent on getting revenge for previous military defeats. The army had been mobilized in the Sinai desert, and was poised to launch what he called "the operation that will surprise the world". The operation was set to take place on May 27th, 1967. Abdel Hakim Amer, an Egyptian general, planned the operation.[2]

Operation Dawn was called off after Nasser was informed by Russia that the US was aware of the plan.[3]

Israel was then able to make the first strike. This is detailed in the article about the Six-Day War.

Right, klip, "Nasser was not willing to attack" my a$s. And that's just one of hundreds of lies, omissions and distortions in your Islamofascist propaganda.

 

I couldn't help but notice that you avoided my direct question to substantiate your claim that I try to rewrite history?
Did Dayan admit to provocation of Syria or not? Do the Knesset records show that the War Cabinet knew that Nasser would not attack, or not?
Did senior Israeli politicians admit the same in the public domain or not?

Why do you need to wriggle quite so much? LOL ... I think we can all answer that one. These are in fact all VERY easy questions, answers to which could refute my claims without your having to resort to strawman evasions. Why not try the direct honest line?

When you have the honesty to avoid skirting the issue, I will be happy to answer the rest of your post. But right now you have lots of unfinished business that is pending..

 

Thank you very much for your crystal clear proof that Nasser decided not to attack.
I will use this post by you in future as proof.

Once again you are unwilling to refute my claims that the Israeli generals and politicians knew that Nasser was not about to attack. So I have to conclude that you agree with my evidence as supplied by Tom Segev. Good.

You serve up "Operation Dawn" as proof that Nasser was about to attack. And you do it without any reference. But disregarding that slackness, if so, why did the Israeli Sabra generals believe the contrary? Why, Borat? Its a simple question that you have failed frequently to answer.

I can tell you why. Because your quote of Operation Dawn is a strawman. That's why. You cherry pick so much that you even failed to tell us that it was planned, not by Nasser, but by General Amer. Why did you avoid mentioning that, Borat? I know the answer to that one also. Because Amer and Nasser were at loggerheads. Right? Why did you fail to tell the readers that, Borat, but left them with the impression that it was Nasser's plan all along. That is dishonest. And it was dishonest when this very same trick was first tried by Michael Oren. Don't know what I am referring to? Here ... read how the "Operation Dawn" threat was shown to be nonsense already in 2002:

Did you see that, Borat. Israel's greatest proponent of her innocence in 1967, Michael Oren, acknowledged that "it is unclear whether 'Nasser even knew about the plan'".

OUCIES!!

Good that I am here to check the claims of Zionist apologists as to facts, and you have been caught out once again using tatty unreferenced nonsense.

 

Borat, since you appear happy to use Wiki sources, and since you are unwilling to refute my claims that it was Israel who was the aggressor along the border with Syria in 1964 to 1967, herewith some Wiki evidence to refute your claim that I am attempting to rewrite history and that my claims have all been debunked (click the blue for source):

Would you like me to show you how Colonel Jan Mehrtens of the UN observer force along the demilitarised zone fully corroborates Dayan's admission? I would love to help.

 

But we know you for exactly what you are!

Now, can you answer me ...... the Torah states only the second coming can give Israel to the Jews, not you're talmud reprobates ...... is it to be the wilderness again or is it to be a just retribution from your god for the genocide and destruction you and yours have caused to nations through out the world???

Do you need 666 printed on your body to be part of your creed?

Highlander

 

Borat ..... A reminder as promised:

Why are you so quiet in proving that my analysis of Israel's justification for her invasion of Lebanon (and her subsequent mega-slaughter) was a collection of "lies, distortions and revisions of history? Big words little substance methinks. Ask HBendor for help perhaps since he agreed with you?

I will remind you again soon.

 

Borat ... another reminder that you are failing to substantiate your "big man words" that my Myth debunking is just a collection of "lies, distortions and revisions of history".

You were given a chance to prove your accusation by showing me that my claims in bold above are nonsense.

Sorry, Borat, but you are going to have to speak up .... you words have suddenly become awfully soft and insignificant.

 

Nasser "decided" in the last minute not to attack when his attack plan was discovered and released by the US and he (Nasser) lost the element of surprise.

Your OP statement that "in June 1967 Israel was under no threat of attack from Nasser and Egypt" was a bold-faced lie in light of Nasser's plans to attack canceled in the last minutes not due to his change of heart but due to his plans being outed by the US. So is the rest of your drivel - lies, distortions, omissions... I just picked one at random and destroyed it. If Nasser had peaceful intentions, he would have removed troops from Israeli borders, returned the peacekeepers and opened international waterways to international maritime traffic.

PS your cherry-picked out of context quotes don't make history and are hardly taken seriously by anyone, you know. If you cherry-pick Einstein's quotes hard enough you can probably prove that he thought the earth was flat. In the age of the Internet you can find quotes (real or made up, in or out of context) for any viewpoint. For each such quote there are thousands of quotes and tons of scientific research proving the exact opposite though.

PS2 I am yet to hear why according to your Syria responding to alleged (by you) Israeil provocations is Israel's fault but Israel responding to Syrian and Egyptian provocations, hostile actions and direct violations of armistice agreements is also Israel's fault?

 

Borat .... LOL .... that attempt by you has already been blown out of the water. You need to focus, fellow, to save yourself even more humiliation. Here is what you have avoided internalising or even responding to:

Regarding the rest of your post and your complaints that I fail to respond, may I draw your attention to the bold script below:

Off you go ... you have unfinished homework and when you have responsed then we can continue the debate and I in turn will respond.

 

HBender......... HBender ........ where art thou


Highlander

 

In the course of this thread it was proven beyond any doubt that Nasser had plans to attack Israel, his intentions (and rethorics) were therefore by definition militaristic and Israel was in fact under the threat of attack, despite the OP claims to the contrary.

It was also shown that you are totally unable to explain why Syrian response to Israeli provocatins (alleged by you) was Israel's fault while Israel's response to far more severe, militaristic, armistice shattering Egyptian provocations was also Israel's fault.

Your selection on cherry-picked out of context quotes has failed you as it always fails your ilk in any serious debate. It was your thread and you failed to answer simple questions, desperately trying to divert attention and change the topic. Thanks for demonstrating the dishonesty and lies of the Islamic narrative and narrators so well.

 

I will reply to your remaining issues, Borat …. One by one.

You say that “In the course of this thread it was proven beyond any doubt that Nasser had plans to attack Israel”. Wrong!!! You supplied 'Operation Dawn' as "proof". It was blown out of the water with Israeli UN ambassador Oren admitting that there is no hard evidence that Nasser even knew of General Amer’s 'Operation Dawn' plan. And when he got to hear of it, he fired Amer. Yet, two days later you again say that your offering of Operation Dawn was proof of Nasser’s intention to invade. Are you OK, Borat?

You then offer Nasser’s rhetoric as “proof” that he was about to invade. Are you aware of the concept of “sabre rattling”, Borat? Not only that, but you also fully ignored a rebuttal of mine, yet have the nerve of accusing me of not responding. Allow me to remind you, Borat that my rebuttal involved reference to Yitzhak Rabin’s statement to Le Monde in February 1968. Oh, you didn’t know about that? In that case here it is – just click the blue for the source, plus a shedload more proof for good measure:

Borat, are you trying to tell us that you believe that the head military officer in Israel at the time of the 1967 War, and future Prime Minister of Israel, was lying? Or that he did not have appropriate information? I certainly hope not.

Next one: Do you know what another future Prime Minister of Israel, Menachem Begin, had to say on the same topic? I have given enough references to this in the past, so I am going to be lazy and cover all of the following quotes with one source (click the blue for it):

Ouchies, Borat!!! Two Israeli Prime Ministers refute your claim.
But here is the real killer; quotes from General Peled, one of the main architects of the ethnic cleansing of Palestine in 1948:

Here is a statement by Mordecai Bentov, a member of the wartime (1967) national government:

Here is the ex-Foreign Affairs minister of Israel, Shlomo Ben-Ami on the topic, quoted from his book “Scars of War; Wounds of Peace”, page 103:

And here is General Yidal Allon quoted from Knesset archival documents by the historian Tom Segev in his book “1967” page 404:

As Doron Isaacs commented: “One of Israel’s most serious historians cannot so easily be delegitimised.”

Yet you disagree with these very senior Israeli politicians; you disagree with a whole basket of Sabra generals; and you disagree with Tom Segev, a historian who made the most thorough investigation and analysis yet published on the June 1967 war, based on (partial) Israeli State and IDF archives; War Cabinet records; Shabak archives; Israeli daily newspapers; the (auto)biographies of leading Israeli players at the time; hand written records by Yaacov Herzog (director general of the office of the Prime Minister); etc.

You certainly are brave …. Or is it foolish? So, to return to your main claim ....

... “In the course of this thread it was proven beyond any doubt that Nasser had plans to attack Israel”. Sorry, Borat. Utterly wrong. MYTH BUSTED!!!

I will return separately on your claim that Israel's provocations of Syria and her first-strike attack on Egypt were in the same boat. Brace yourself, Borat, BECAUSE I WILL BE AGREEING WITH YOU.

 

LOL, you are a funny dude, klip, seriously, you need to have your common sense evaluated by a representative of a medical profession.

Let me make it clear for you klip, 'Operation Dawn' to invade Israel was canceled in the last minute because the US got wind of it, The Egyptian army was on the brink of attacking and invading Israel. This is an undeniable historical fact. It does not matter who knew what, who said what, where, why, to whom and in what context. Egypt was days/hours from invading Israel which makes your OP statement that 'in June 1967 Israel was under no threat of attack' a bold-faced lie.

PS oh and yes, Amer did run the military and had full trust of Nasser. Guess what, an Egyptian army led by Amer into Israel is still an attack and invasion of Israel by Egypt. How come you did not think of that? LOL. And lest we forget, your claim that Nasser fired Amer is another bold-faced lie, Amer was the fieldmarshal (or whatever his title was) throughout the entire war.