Russia pays its debts and forgives billions to other countries

Discussion in 'Russia & Eastern Europe' started by SAUER, Dec 15, 2012.

  1. SAUER

    SAUER New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,628
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Russia has completely repaid the debt of $185.7 million to Europe's largest creditor - Croatia. Moscow is expected to fully repay its debt to the countries of former Yugoslavia (Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Bosnia and Herzegovina) before 2016.

    It is worthy of note that Russia continues to repay its debts to foreign countries at the time when it writes off the debts of foreign countries to Russia. It would be enough to remember how Germany made Russia pay $30 billion of debt, including $6 billion to the former GDR. One can witness the same situation with all of Russia's allies on the left block.

    Foreign countries owe $68.968 billion to Russia as of January 1, 2006. A big part of this amount has already been written off. Russia forgave the following debts during the recent eleven years. Vietnam and Ethiopia - $10 and $4 billion in 2010. Laos and Mongolia - $0.7 and $11 billion in 2003. Syria and Ethiopia - $10 and $1 billion in 2005. Algeria - $4.7 billion in 2006. Afghanistan - $11 billion in 2007. Libya - $4.5 billion in 2008. Iraq - $8 billion in 2009. And finally, North Korea - $11 billion.

    This totals $76 billion. It appears that Russia is so rich that we, unlike the West, can afford doing such things. These are not all the details that reflect Russia's indiscriminate forgiveness. It is not ruled out that the same may happen to Cuba's debt - $19.5 billion.

    Many of those countries are rich with natural resources. However, what did Russia get from such countries as Iraq in return? A handful of highly unprofitable offers and that was it.

    Appendix 59 to Budget-2007 said that the Russian government was entitled to write off the debts to 13 poorest countries (Guyana in Latin America and 12 African countries - Congo, Ethiopia, Guinea, Guinea-Bisau, Mozambique, Zambia, Madagascar, Tanzania, Benin, San Tome and Principle Island, Burundi and Chad) which made up the total of nearly one billion dollars.

    The majority of those countries are rich with oil, uranium, copper, etc. However, Russia received no good contracts for those resources instead. This may only lead to negative consequences for Russia because the country suffers considerable financial losses.

    Many countries of the former USSR (Uzbekistan, Ukraine, Belarus, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Georgia, Moldova) owed Russia $3.294 billion in the beginning of 2006.


    Russian official say that debts hamper the development of commercial and economic ties between countries. One may have an official approach to this problem. The debt and the pressure from a creditor may only boost the development of those ties. Many developing states are rich with natural resources, so they could successfully repay their debts with those resources. If they could not, then they would have to repay their debt plus interest to Russia, as international laws stipulate. France was waiting for a hundred years for the debts of tsarist Russia to be repaid. Why couldn't Paris just write those debts off during the Soviet era?


    The French strongly refused to forgive the tsarist debt. The legal entity in the face of tsarist Russia, which borrowed money from France, stopped its existence. The USSR, which replaced tsarist Russia, refused to even say a word about it. The French could have written off the debt after the collapse of the Soviet Union. However, Russia fully repaid the tsarist debt to France.

    Nowadays, it seems that Russia is ready to write off the debts of all of its debtors. "What can you have from such a poor country as North Korea?" skeptics may say. We would like to remind everyone here that the news about the debt forgiveness to North Korea was announced simultaneously with Russia's agreement to lease 200,000 hectares of land to North Korea in the Amur region. The price is astonishing: 50 rubles ($2) per hectare. To crown it all, Russia will deliver the humanitarian aid of 50,000 tons of wheat to Pyongyang in August-September of this year.

    World prices on wheat made up $267 per ton in July of this year. It just so happens that Russia is spending $13.35 million on the humanitarian aid to Kim Jong-il. Russia could use this to gain access to North Korean non-ferrous metals. However, there is nothing to prove that Russia is going to receive anything in return.
    http://english.pravda.ru/russia/economics/03-10-2011/119209-russia_debt-0/
    _____________________

    It seems that Kim Jong-il, Assad and other Gaddafies knew how to work with Russian tops.
    The international practice says that no one ever forgive such huge sums. Is it a typical soviet-russian (USSR distributed a lot of money to its “friends” as well) dullness and diseconomy or something?
     
  2. freddy62

    freddy62 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,041
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Russia is being charitable & when you give charity you do not expect something in return. Forgiving debt without strings attached also helps eliminate the possibility of corruption while at the same time generating good will.
     
  3. SAUER

    SAUER New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,628
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The charity is good and noble thing. However, in my view the national interest is much more important than this “noble” act. Russia isn’t so rich, and can’t afford doing such foolish things.

    A really disputable issue. :)
     
  4. Ivan88

    Ivan88 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2012
    Messages:
    4,908
    Likes Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    48
    President Putin & his supporters are doing the right thing in paying off debt and forgiving debt, because doing so is vital to Russia's Divine Role in Protecting humanity & enhancing life world wide. One little example of it was when Russia saved the people of South Ossetia from extermination at the hands of HATO, the Israelis & corrupt Georgians.

    On another note, when Росси Russian writing is used on Google, they respond with:
    Server Error in '/' Application.

    A potentially dangerous Request.Form value was detected from the client (query="гр&#1072...").

    Description: Request Validation has detected a potentially dangerous client input value, and processing of the request has been aborted. This value may indicate an attempt to compromise the security of your application, such as a cross-site scripting attack. You can disable request validation by setting validateRequest=false in the Page directive or in the configuration section. However, it is strongly recommended that your application explicitly check all inputs in this case.

    Exception Details: System.Web.HttpRequestValidationException: A potentially dangerous Request.Form value was detected from the client (query="гр&#1072...").

    Source Error:
    The source code that generated this unhandled exception can only be shown when compiled in debug mode. To enable this, please follow one of the below steps, then request the URL:1. Add a "Debug=true" directive at the top of the file that generated the error. Example: <%@ Page Language="C#" Debug="true" %>or:2) Add the following section to the configuration file of your application:<configuration> <system.web> <compilation debug="true"/> </system.web></configuration>Note that this second technique will cause all files within a given application to be compiled in debug mode. The first technique will cause only that particular file to be compiled in debug mode.Important: Running applications in debug mode does incur a memory/performance overhead. You should make sure that an application has debugging disabled before deploying into production scenario.
     
  5. SAUER

    SAUER New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,628
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yes, that’s right. I just forgot about that.
    [​IMG]
    Btw Ivan if you do approve Putin’s plan could you send me $ 20 000 - maybe you have any divine role too.
     
  6. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2012
    Messages:
    3,400
    Likes Received:
    218
    Trophy Points:
    63
    It's Russian way. I myself have a dotaed percentage on the house purchasing (which is by the way 16%! not 5% as it is in Europe or 0% as it is in Japan) But I will pay off in 2 years. At the same time I have the guys that owe me around 10 000 USD. Some of them were in the car accident and they were asking to borrow some money. I regarded it as a donation from the very beginning. At the same time Russia is very strict and really pushes the Ukranian government with their debts for the natural gas. Ukraine has about half a year to join the Customs union. If not they will lose their industry and markets in Russia (which is 10 times bigger comparing the market in European Union).
    It's policy. If You want to be a great country you should not economize but spend. Opposing NATO in Libya and freezing its activities in Syria is a vital experience. If we fail in Syria than we can hope to stop NATO in Iran before the invasion to Russia itself. Of course it would be better to have no NATO at all and to construct a good force under the UN and instead of continuing to rebuild weapons to bring down the amount of nuclear rockets not the way that the USA (to take them to storages) but as the USSR did (destroy them at the presence of the world representatives).
     
  7. SAUER

    SAUER New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,628
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    0
    It’s just idiotic way.
    Right move.
    Great. Very strong argument. If I were You I would forgive a debt to bank and then say to collectors that if they want to be a great bank they should not economize but spend. I bet they might see your statement in proper perspective :)

    And how do You think is there any difference between “to spend money” and “to squander money”?
    What do NATO and Syria have to do with our sick policy?
    May be NATO again be guilty that our dumbas$es forgave this huge sum?
     
  8. Ivan88

    Ivan88 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2012
    Messages:
    4,908
    Likes Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Yeh, that's a great idea. Wish I could accomodate you.
     
  9. SAUER

    SAUER New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,628
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    0
    np it was mostly hypothetical question :p
     
  10. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2012
    Messages:
    3,400
    Likes Received:
    218
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Money is not everything. I assume that the bank knoweing that I can affect the decision of taking huge loans from the side of the company I wrok for could really agree to provide not only me with less percentage or evenforgiving the debt. Because the conditions for the loans are mostly the same and the decision is finally made on the basis of trust. Now will I trust the guy who collects every penny from his debtors even if it is ruins their business and everything? How will I look at the guy who have collected some money on his debtors, but seeing their tough situation forgave it to them?
    In my opinion today's world is going not after the greediest, but after the most generous side. It's only my opinion though.
     
  11. SAUER

    SAUER New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,628
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Of course. But I suppose it can’t justify such foolish policy.
    That's an exaggeration. Many of those countries like Libya or Iraq are rich with natural resources. The Practice says the debt and the pressure from a creditor may only boost the development of commercial and economic ties between countries, organizations, men. :)
    In my view the world always tend to respect the adequate and sober moves. I’m afraid when someone indiscriminately forgives such huge sums he looks like a sucker and not like a generous and noble man.
     
  12. upside-down cake

    upside-down cake Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    5,457
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Just 185 million dollars for a national debt? Compared to the United States, that's just pennies.

    Maybe it's just a sign of the times but jeez, I'd give arms and legs to swap places with them...debt wise.
     
  13. SAUER

    SAUER New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,628
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The question is when US will pay its debts? And how many billions does America forgive to other countries?:p
     
  14. upside-down cake

    upside-down cake Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    5,457
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Good point. I didn't think about the debts the US might be holding from other countries. However, it probably won't even matter. If it isn't already held by the World Bank, the US will find someway to roll it over. That's how the big boys do it. Reap the profit and pass the bill.
     
  15. SAUER

    SAUER New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,628
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yes they will. But it does work only when you completely dominate the world. However sooner or later America will have to accept a multipolar world and I&#8217;m afraid the printing press or small victorious war with another Bantustan wouldn&#8217;t help US to solve its probs.
     
  16. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2012
    Messages:
    3,400
    Likes Received:
    218
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I think that the US will never repay its debts... which is partly an answer of why Russia behaved like that. It happened once already, and it will happen again. All the world will forgive these debts. A question is only what to do with such a quantity of reserve USD and how will the world live after the collapse of the leading economy of the world.
     
  17. upside-down cake

    upside-down cake Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    5,457
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I've always had the belief that this war was make or brake for the US. We get the oil and we don't need to care how much of a debt we rack up because we hold hostage the life blood of modern civilization, and we sell it at a premium. We don't get it, not only would Middle East gain the economic strength to flick us off, it would empower other nations who could reduce the US standing in the world without firing a single shot.

    The North African campaign was to prevent a conglomerate of African states from separating from the American dollar and starting a Pan-African currency based on sweet old hard currency. At the moment, America forces other countries to accept its dollars. Attempts to exchange the dollar for gold was shut down decades ago. had Africa succeeded, the world would have leaped on it.

    At the very least I hope what is happening at least yields some sort of benefit for us, disgusting as that sounds, but I have the feeling it is not being done for the sake of the nation. All the great markets (oil, war, and reconstruction) that are created from this venture will generate enormous capital that goes to private business, not the nation. They are simply rising the US to open up the markets. To that extent, we will receive some kickback, but after the horse has outlived its usefulness...
     
  18. SAUER

    SAUER New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,628
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    0
    :thumbsup: One friend of mine said the same things some days ago :smile:
    Btw what do you think about your Ron Paul. Im my view he looks like a sober politician. I mean his isolationist views and it seems he doesn't like American overgrown government bureaucracy, the Patriot act etc :smile:
    Is he a good man or another spoiler?
     
  19. upside-down cake

    upside-down cake Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    5,457
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I suppose I'm a bit of a grouch, but I distrust Ron Paul also. He strikes me as the career politician who says all politicians are bad and wants to become President so he can right the wrongs of the people. He just seems to nice and too flawless and it seems like a good cop, bad cop act. Should he have been elected, things wold have likely continued- with or without him- because the President isn't a king and doesn't determine, alone, the course of the country.
     
  20. SAUER

    SAUER New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,628
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    0
    ic. We have the same situation in Russia. Same ship different country :smile:
     
  21. SAUER

    SAUER New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,628
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    0
  22. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,926
    Likes Received:
    63,214
    Trophy Points:
    113
    didn't the ussr just claim bk a few years back, wipe the slate clean, paying back a few million? how much did they never pay back?

    it's good to see Russia doing this, glad they are getting back on their feet, maybe we need a national bk

    .
     
  23. SAUER

    SAUER New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,628
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Russia to cancel Cuba&#8217;s $29 billion of Soviet debt

    Russia is going to write off 90 percent of Cuba's $32 billion Soviet-era debt as part of a deal to end a 20-year dispute, according to diplomatic sources cited by Reuters.

    Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev agreed to write off the island&#8217;s debt during a visit to Havana in February 2013, stressing details would be finalized by the end of the year.
    http://rt.com/business/russia-cuba-debt-ussr-980/
     

Share This Page