New genetic study: Ashkenazi Jews do not stem from Hebrews

Discussion in 'Science' started by Art_Allm, Jan 5, 2013.

  1. Art_Allm

    Art_Allm Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    Now we have the first scientific results that confirm the known history of East European Jews, the latest results of archaeological findings on the territory of the former Khazaria and the latest linguistic research of the language "Yiddish" (Paul Wexler):


     
    Mr_Truth and (deleted member) like this.
  2. Art_Allm

    Art_Allm Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    Here are another interesting results of genetic research:

    Yes, the continued silence is very puzzling.
    We have a revolutionary discovery, but nobody seems to care.
    Why?
     
  3. Art_Allm

    Art_Allm Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    Historic documents that confirm the conversion of Khazars to Judaism:

    More information about Khazars and their Kingdom, called Khazaria.

    http://www.khazaria.com
     
  4. Art_Allm

    Art_Allm Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    Here is what Elhaik says in his interview to Haarez, January 21, 2013:

    Ahmadinejad seems to be a close relative of Ashkenazi Jews, but Jewish genetics and historians keep cilence and Jewish politicians continue to instigate hatred against Iran.
     
  5. ThirdTerm

    ThirdTerm Well-Known Member

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    A new study of genetic affinity among Jewish communities has uncovered evidence of genetic roots among Jews from North Africa that stretch back 2,000 years. Some findings are surprising: It turns out that Syrian Jews have more genetic commonality with Ashkenazi (European) Jews than with other oriental Jews (Jews from Asian and African lands). Also, Yemenite Jews, who have long been thought to have lived in isolation, apparently have genetic connections with people from neighboring states. Jews of North African origins have greater genetic affinity with Ashkenazi Jews that with non-Jewish residents from North African countries, according to the research study, whose findings were released this week.

    http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/international-genetic-study-traces-jewish-roots-to-ancient-middle-east-1.456676

    [​IMG]

     
  6. Art_Allm

    Art_Allm Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    Let's look at the study you have quoted:

    That is a study sponsored and conducted by Zionists, it is not new, because it predates the study of Elhaik and uses a limited number of persons and does not apply the complex method applied in the last study by Elhaik.

    Elhaik debunked all these "studies", dude!



    The population of the former Khazaria was not even a subject of this test, how can this study prove that Ashkenazi Jews are closer related to Sephardic Jews than to the surrogate population that lives today on the territory of the former Khazaria, like Armenians or Azery or Dagestanians?

    Sorry, but the study you have quoted is just a fake.
     
  7. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

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    Granny says, "Dat's right...
    :grandma:
    ... dey's God's people...

    ... a nation of rabbis an' Nobel Prize winners...

    ... ya gifelti fish.
    :nana:
     
  8. ThirdTerm

    ThirdTerm Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    More than a decade ago a characteristic Y chromosome haplotype was found to be associated with the Jewish priesthood, a patrilineal dynasty thought to be founded by the first Jewish priest, the biblical Aaron (Skorecki et al. 1997). The sharing of this Y chromosome lineage between Ashkenazi and non-Ashkenazi Jews pointed to a common origin of the Cohanim before the separation of Jewish communities in the Diaspora. Subsequently, it was shown that ~50% of Cohanim carry a characteristic suite of alleles at six Y-linked STRs, which defined the Cohen Modal Haplotype (CMH). Dating based on variation associated with five of these six Y-STRs suggested that contemporary CMH chromosomes trace to a common ancestral chromosome 2,100–3,250 years ago (Thomas et al. 1998 ). This time roughly corresponds to the period between the biblical exodus and the destruction of the first temple.

    In conclusion, we demonstrate that 46.1% (95% CI = 39–53%) of Cohanim carry Y chromosomes belonging to a single paternal lineage (J-P58*) that likely originated in the Near East well before the dispersal of Jewish groups in the Diaspora. Support for a Near Eastern origin of this lineage comes from its high frequency in our sample of Bedouins, Yemenis (67%), and Jordanians (55%) and its precipitous drop in frequency as one moves away from Saudi Arabia and the Near East (Fig. 4). Moreover, there is a striking contrast between the relatively high frequency of J-58* in Jewish populations (~20%) and Cohanim (~46%) and its vanishingly low frequency in our sample of non-Jewish populations that hosted Jewish diaspora communities outside of the Near East. An extended Cohen Modal Haplotype accounts for 64.6% of chromosomes with the J-P58* background, and 29.8% (95% CI = 23–36%) of Cohanim Y chromosomes surveyed here. These results also confirm that lineages characterized by the 6 Y-STRs used to define the original CMH are associated with two divergent sub-clades within haplogroup J and, thus, cannot be assumed to represent a single recently expanding paternal lineage.

    [​IMG]

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2771134/
     
  9. mutmekep

    mutmekep New Member

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    Whenever i see halpogroups used to describe nationality ... LOL

    Khazars were originally of some animistic or maybe tenger religion and converted to judaism because of politics , this happen relatively speaking recently. Khazarian state had big numbers of Tatars, Slavs, Goths , Caucasians ( Georgians, Cherkezi etc) and Greeks . You know people love to mix...
     
  10. ThirdTerm

    ThirdTerm Well-Known Member

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    Only 5% of Ashkenazi Jewish men belong to haplogroup Q which originated in Central Asia 15,000 to 20,000 years ago and Khazaria may be the home of Asian Jews who make up a tiny minority of the Jewish population while approximately 20% of Ashkenazi Jewish men belong to haplogroup J which originated in the Near East and the Khazarian hypothesis is statistically weaker.

     
  11. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Ashkenazi "Jews" are Gentiles, not Israelites. They have no claim to the Promised Land.
     
  12. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The only people with any claim to Palestine are the people whose ancestors have always lived there, the Palestinians. People whose religion originated there thousands of years ago have no more claim to it than I have to Jerusalem, Rome or Constantinople because I was brought up Christian. Let's get genetics, colonialism and religion properly separated.
     
  13. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    What you say is true lolo. However, there are some delusionals who feel that non-Semitic people like the Ashkenazi have a right to usurp lands that did not belong to their forefathers. And they deliberately create 'scientific' "facts" which have no basis in reality in the attempt to justify their ridiculous claims. My point being that there is absolutely no basis for these ridiculous and irrational claims.
     
  14. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    bottom line, the lineages are african.

    The oldest that i know of are ethiopian.

    Tell Bibi, that the original 'judaistic' tribes are african (egyptian). The people that they claim to hate (arab) (exodus) are their very brethren.

    It is why i believe that ahkenatan was perhaps moses himself and a schism within egypt of that period is the exodus itself.
     
  15. Art_Allm

    Art_Allm Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    Do you understand the stuff you are pasting?

    Have you read the paper written by Elhaik?

    You are posting old stuff about Cohens that was already debunked.

    Only a tiny minority of Ashkenzi Jews belong to the Cohen-Clan, and not more than 50% of these Cohens have the so-called "Cohen-Haplogroup" which can be found in non-Jewish populations more frequently than among Jews.

    Levites do not have any Cohen-Haplogroups, they are mainly of European origin, though they presumably stem from the same founding father.

    Genealogy debunks the religious mythology of Jews, but people cannot understand these simple things because they do not have the basic knowledge of genetics.

    Again, you are pasting old stuff and it seems that you do not understand what you are pasting.

    Do not confuse the Proto-Khazars with the Khazars.

    The Haplogroup Q is the "smoking gun" of the Proto-Khazars in the direct male lineage of Ashkenazi males.

    But even Proto-Khazars were of mixed origin, some of them may have had a R1a male lineage, like the today native population of the Altai region, and the percentage of Altaic (speak Proto-Khazarian) male ancestors in the direct male lineage of Ashkenazi males may be as big as 25%.

    What to Khazars - they were an even more heterogeneous group of people.

    The Proto-Khazars (males) conquered North Caucasus and mixed with the population of the conquered land (females). Their children married local people and that continued for many centuries, till they converted to Judaism. Sorry, but it seems to me that you do not have the basic knowledge of the history of Khazaria.

    Yes, the Haplogroup J is believed to originate in the Middle East, but males with these Haplogroups moved to Caucasus more than 10 000 years ago.

    There were no Jews 10000 years ago, dude!

    There are a lot of non-Jewish native population groups in Caucasus and many other oriental regions who have these male J-Haplogroup and different subclades of this Haplogroup.

    According to Occam's Razor principle, we have to assume the most simple hypothesis, speak we have to assume that Ashkenazi males got their J-Haplogroups from the native pagans who lived on the territory of the former Khazaria 1300 years ago and reject the improbable hypothesis, based on Jewish religious mythology.

    Palestine is only a tiny part of a huge region in which these haplogroups were present already 10 000 years ago, so it is ridiculous to claim that the J-Haplogroups found in the genome of many Ashkenazi males is a prove for their Palestinian origin.

    The direct male ancestors of Jews with J-Haplogroups may have lived 2500 years ago in Caucasus, as well, and converted to Judaism only in the 8th century AD.

    Besides that the studies you have quoted refer to only a tiny fraction of male ancestors of an Ashkenasi Jew - the direct male lineage.

    But what about other ancestors?

    Every human being has 2 parent, 4 Grandparents, 8 Grand -Grand-Parents and so on.

    If we take 2500 years we will get a huge number of ancestors, and 99,9999....% of these ancestors do not belong to the direct male lineage.

    So somebody with a J-Haplogroup may look like a Black African, like a Mongolian or like a North-European, if a male with this Haplogroup moved 2500 years ago to North Europe, South Africa or Mongolia and mixed with the native population.

    What to the author of the genetic study we are discussing - he does not limit his study to the Y-DNA, speak to the direct male lineage.

    Elhaik uses more sophisticated methods that permit to trace the ancestry of all lineages, male and female, direct and indirect.

    And as a result he could prove that the genome of Ashkenazi Jews (males and females) is almost indistinguishable from the genome of people who live on the territory of the former Khazaria and who call themselves today Adygei, Chechens, Azeri, Armenians, Georgians etc.

    On the other hand Ashkenazi Jews can be easily distinguished from Semitic people.

    Ergo:

    Ashkenazi Jews do not stem from Hebrews, they stem from people who lived 1300 years ago on the territory of the former Khazaria (a mixture of the Proto-Khazar males and native population of the conquerred territory) and were pagans that converted to Judaism in the 8th century AD or even later, and these people were called Khazars, because they lived in Khazaria.

    Please read some basics about genetics and the paper we are discussing here before pasting texts you probably do not even understand, and then come back.

    :D
     

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