Why does nobody want to talk about the REAL reason behind military suicides?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by iAWESOME, Feb 2, 2013.

  1. iAWESOME

    iAWESOME New Member

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    In 2012, more soldiers killed themselves, than were killed. Most of those weren't in Afghanistan. Most had never seen any combat. Why? Its because military life sucks. Its dehumanizing, its pointless (unless you're deployed) etc. While I was in I spoke to people that had actually been to jail, and apparently, jail is more inviting than the Military. You are treated like a piece of garbage while "serving your country". Officers feeling all entitled throw their rank in your face 24/7 etc. The Army says it encourages soldiers to get mental help, but it doesn't. If you dare go to psych, you will be bombarded with people asking you why you want out, and your chain will probably make your life that much more of a living hell. Not to mention the people in leadership positions can barely tie their shoes. The Military in general is a waste of money, time and energy, and I will hazard to guess that most of those 300 or so people that couldn't take it anymore knew that. Screw the Military.
     
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  2. Marshal

    Marshal New Member Past Donor

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    Thank you for the important subject.

    It begs the question......Would the US military be LESS or MORE effective..... If it sucked less?

    Suppose a few battalions were treated differently, and rated against each other. In one battalion, the soldiers wake up a little later, and are allowed more rest time. In the other battalion, it's normal.

    Perhaps the military will find areas that do not need to be so unpleasant.

    Maybe unfair sleeping time doesn't produce better soldiers. Perhaps they could merely sleep less if they were faced with combat.
     
  3. pimptight

    pimptight Banned

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    Should be simple enough, just put some Air Force units on force protection.

    Then compare them to Army and Marine grunt units.

    The only real point I thought the op made was how the military culture of treating battle fatigue, PTSD, or Shell shock(Whichever term you prefer) as malingering.
     
  4. mrmeangenes

    mrmeangenes New Member Past Donor

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    The temptation to post a sarcastic response to the "awesome" post is strong. (For openers, one wonders how all those "grunts" from yesteryear - who were faced with even more "topdown" pressure-managed to avoid killing themselves .):frown:

    Rather than be sarcastic, I'd like to point out the services were administering anti-malaria drugs for a very long time : drugs that had to be withdrawn, eventually, because they were causing psychiatric problems-including suicide.:eyepopping:

    I suspect this is the underlying cause.:salute:
     
  5. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

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    Hussein Obama has demoralized our armed forces.
     
  6. leftlegmoderate

    leftlegmoderate New Member

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    It's certainly not for everyone, that's for sure. I think a lot of folks end up joining, or allowed rather, that shouldn't have, simply due to a need for more warm bodies.

    The fact that you can't simply walk away from your contractual obligation probably doesn't help matters either. It's sad though, that some people actually believe that suicide is a better option than suffering through the time they agreed to.
     
  7. Ctrl

    Ctrl Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think it might be a combination of something here and the OP.

    I think it is the disparity of "the suck" from differing social constructs of the differing ages. Our lives are really easy as civilians. We eat good, we play xbox, we have a lot of sex... and then once enlisted... (*)(*)(*)(*) sucks.

    This generation is raised believing that each of them is special... but when they go in they aren't special forces... it's "hard". This tremendous disparity between luxury and the suck is probably more to blame than meds... but I sure as hell don't rule meds out as a contributing factor.
     
  8. Bluespade

    Bluespade Banned

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    Ya, not even close guy. I've been in the peace time army, and people who hated being in the army either maned up, and did their time, and got out. Or, they pursude other avenues of getting out before their ETS. Everyonce in awhile, you'd hear about somebody offing themselves, but those where rare occasions. I've also done two tours downrange, and I (*)(*)(*)(*) well know people aren't killing themselves because army life sucks. It's because people are coming home, and they can't cope with what they've seen, done, or how the world has changed around them.

    Don't try dragging these people down into your pity party.
     
  9. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Modernization no longer allows that anyone off the street is qualified to serve, secondly, the decrease in standards only increases the rate of suicide... Sad but true, the American military is no longer what it needs to be, and the cost of that only fuels the liberal hatred for America and will further destroy the nation...

    A nation dies in front of our eyes, yet all the trash will cheer, to their dismay when it finally does happen...
     
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  10. ElDiablo

    ElDiablo Banned

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    The matter of Soldiers and Veterans committing suicide is a complex scenario and one very worthy of discussion.

    Suicide in and of itself is a complex topic.

    I am not qualified to really address this problem..I can only offer some personal observations.

    First of all I feel compelled to talk about my next door neighbor now deceased by her own hand. I moved into this complex in Sunny Florida about 3 months ago. The single girl in her 30's lived in the apartment right next to me. I had only seen her a few times and only talked to her a couple of times...she was attractive, intelligent and very, very nice.

    Thus it came as a huge shock to me when a couple of weeks later she hung herself. This situation was my closest experience with suicide and I just find it truly disgusting...such a waste. It was about 3 days before her body was discovered...I had noticed some 'odor' but thought it was coming from the woods behind my apartment....it wasn't that bad so I paid little attention to it.

    I remember talking to a para-medic once about suicide and he said it was the most selfish thing a person could do. He had a lot of experience dealing with it. He said these people that do that are all about hurting those close to them and he had absolutely no respect for anyone that would do that...and in fact despised them.

    My neighbor had a few problems but who doesn't. She had got injured on the job, underwent surgery on her knee, got fired when she went back to work and had split up with her boyfriend and who knows what else?

    She had called up her former boyfriend( who had a new girlfriend) and said something that alarmed him so he called the police. The cop who came out to talk to her was also on hand to investigate her death a week later...."he said she had told him she would not harm herself" so he did his duty...and went his way...what else could he do?

    Though I barely knew her I began to think perhaps there was something I could have done to have prevented this...perhaps if I had been more friendly, perhaps if I had talked to her more etc.etc. So I can only imagine what those really close to her must have suffered and how they must have second guessed all of their behavior in regards to the tragic situation.

    In the finaly analysis I suppose there are all sorts of reasons for people to comitt suicide but other than for those who are enduring unbearable physical pain I have little sympathy for them. Perhaps I am wrong and perhaps I should not judge these unfortuate souls....but that is my perception and I am not inclined to change.
     
  11. AceFrehley

    AceFrehley New Member

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    We will continue to have more and more military suicides each year, for as long as we keep pussifying the military and the United States in general.

    NEXT!
     
  12. pimptight

    pimptight Banned

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    I was very concerned with the Anthrax vaccine i was forced to take.
     
  13. Marine1

    Marine1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm sorry, I don't agree with you at all. Granted going through boot camp and combat training, military life sucks. They are on you every minute. But once you get through that, military life isn't that bad. Sure you still have to follow orders, but you do the same thing in civilian life. I went through it and so did my Brother. I have two nephews in the Marine Corps now. One just reinlisted and one went in early last year.

    There can be a lot of reasons for suicide in the service. Wife or girlfriend leaving or cheating on you. A financial strain, the service sure doesn't pay that much. Not liking your MOS you were given, or duty station you were sent to. Not able to adjust to military life. Feeling trapped in a three or more year commitment to a life your not use to. Then you have those kind of people who aren't use to authority. That might not have that father figure that made them toe the mark. Let's not kid ourself, drugs are comon in the military and they make you do stupid things. There are many reasons for people to kill themselves besides thinking the service sucks.
     
  14. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    When is some one going to take into account that the suicide rate for the Military is actually lower than that for the genral population. If oen looks at only males.
     
  15. mrmeangenes

    mrmeangenes New Member Past Donor

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    If memory serves, that vaccine sometimes contained a mercury-based antiseptic -which helped keep it from bacteria/mold contamination. (Thimmersault ?? Not sure of spelling.)

    There were studies and counter-studies--and a general conclusion much of the fuss was unwarranted ----but---nobody could say "ALL" unwarranted, and that opened new cans of worms.
     
  16. gophangover

    gophangover Well-Known Member

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    Twenty-two a day are committing suicide. That tells me that there are a lot of mentally ill joining the military. But the recruiters only care about filling their quotas. With the draft done away with, only those that want to join a mercenary force sign up. They're paid killers. Then they find out it's not as fun as a video game.
     
  17. mrmeangenes

    mrmeangenes New Member Past Donor

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    Not to belabor the point, but, the vaccine preservative is called "Thimersal" and is dicussed here (among other places) :

    http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228
     
  18. Bluespade

    Bluespade Banned

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    It took you awhile to find this thread and scum it up. You have no (*)(*)(*)(*)ing clue.
     
  19. Zavy

    Zavy New Member

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    I was drafted during the Vietnam War and entered against my will, ended up spending 20 years in the army and retired. Went through two wives as a result of the wear and tear on marriage associated with the military life and decided to take a third try and started a family at age 42...now I have two sons and one is now in the army serving in Germany.

    I had many ups and downs associated with the military life and stressed personal life situations related to the choice to serve in the army...and, I'd be lying if I said I never considered ending it all in the darkest points of my life...but, my guess there are few people that haven't considered the options to dragging yourself through truly hard times.

    People make all choices in life based on what they determine will give them the ultimate pleasure regardless the nasty sub tasks involved in the process...if you look back at choices you've made, including choices to do distasteful tasks they were all made with what you determined would gain you the most pleasure. One of the key differences in serving in the military is your scale of what you thought would deliver pleasure doesn't match up with the reality you face. For example as a normal teenage person you more than likely would think having a hot sports car would give you great pleasure...part of the pleasure is your friends appreciation of your gain...but for you to fully appreciate the object of your desire you acknowledge you need left over money to buy gas and of course entertain all the hot babes the hot sports car would attract...Now consider the same concept but without your friends and the lost value of owning the hottest sports car in the world in a strange land where no one personally knows you other than recently acquired friends/workmates that come into and out of your life on sometime monthly basis. Consider the hot babes all know that you'll be doing the same, leaving soon to the other side of the world...your pleasure system is turned upside down.

    I've had long talks with my son prior to and continue to communicate with him about these realities and as I promised he has already experienced the loss of the love of his life...he was devastated but he had been warned and along with the warning I made sure to make him aware his first reaction would be to blame the army, blame the overseas assignment, blame everything from the girl to a rock he stubbed his toe on...but the most important thing I told him was to blame yourself first for choosing wrong, flip the page and learn and gain wisdom from the mistake and to feel blessed he wasn't in a civilian environment where he could try to fix a mistake over and over so he could live with his mistake...It worked and he bounced back and will be challenged by many more poor choices in the future but he has the tools to deal with resolving mistakes in his hands now. I've told him to look way ahead into the future when weighing pleasure and determine ahead of time what exactly will yield the most pleasure and then choose wisely and don't sweat the mistakes...I laugh and tell him my two former relationships cost me a couple hundred thousand dollars so feel blessed your lesson was less expensive.
     
  20. gophangover

    gophangover Well-Known Member

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    More of a clue than you, I bet. I'm an honorably discharged vet, I doubt you are.
     
  21. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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  22. Bluespade

    Bluespade Banned

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    If you were a betting man, I seriously doubt you'd bet on any thing you say, as being right. Since you're proved wrong, more times than anyone can count.


    Ya, I seriously doubt that.

    Ya, and once again you would be wrong, since I have a DD-214 that states otherwise.
     
  23. Chad2

    Chad2 Member

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    What did the GW Bush White House do to the armed forces, when they told 935 documented lies about Iraq, and then invaded Iraq for nothing?
    Answer: They killed and paralyzed 1,000's of US troops, and killed 100,000 innocent Iraqi people.


    And How did Obama demoralize our armed forces?
     
  24. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

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    Poor young men fighting the old rich men's wars in the name of patriotism. :flagus:

    Average Americans have problems with mental health, look at the number of mass shootings. The system is a mess, and Soldiers are at the worst end of it along with the poor.
     
  25. Surfer Joe

    Surfer Joe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A standing army is a recipe for disaster.
    They need something to do, and they're trained to kill mindlessly.
    Maybe the suicides should be classified as friendly fire casualties.
     

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