Islam v The United States: How To Diffuse a Political Time-Bomb

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Silhouette, Jun 12, 2013.

  1. Silhouette

    Silhouette New Member

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    I don't often include music videos in my posts but this one illustrates well what I'm about to discuss. It's Rammstein's "We're All Living In America". It has an excellent perspective. The band is in space looking down on the earth and the spreading of the American culture across the globe. Its angst displays a growing unrest and awareness and resistance to being overtaken by a culture that not everyone thinks is the apex of humanity..

    [video=youtube;xFVdvXGIT34]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFVdvXGIT34&feature=player_embedded[/video]

    The reason I bring this up is to illustrate a simple adage: "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."

    Islam is getting more and more extreme. Can you think of any reason why? Think about current politics and what current social trends are making their way across the globe on the vector of American expansion a la the video above.

    In order to diffuse the situation, maybe we could rein in some of our extremism and see if it works. See if just a tsp. of sanity might make a gallon of difference in the extreme reactions of islamics. It could be the cure the Obama Administration is looking for.

    This thread isn't going to degrade into a "why we hate islamics, or why we hate America". It's a problem-solving thread.

    Keeping in mind the adage, why do you think islamics and others are growing in hatred for America? What would you like to see change in Islamic cultures to bring the pendulum back to the center more?

    The Koran and the Bible really aren't that different in their core values. So this wild spinning peripheral focus is becoming more and more dangerous as the years go by. I guarantee if we all go back to our core values, the situaiton will begin to diffuse and we will realize that we aren't so different after all. The devil is in the details of the wrappers. While the product inside is pretty much the same, and one that we'd all enjoy.

    So, what do you suppose each culture sees as extreme in the other?
     
    darckriver and (deleted member) like this.
  2. Kurmugeon

    Kurmugeon Well-Known Member

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    There is an old expression, "Don't Feed the Bears".


    If you want the violence to stop, don't reward it!

    Don't give them anything for their violence. In fact, significantly restrict what freedoms their Religion enjoys in our country, until they have demonstrated a long track record of stopping the Radicals within their own ranks.

    If you want to stop Islamic Radicals, then publicly announce AND Demonstrate a policy that America will NEVER give the slightest of Appeasement Concessions to avoid further terror attacks.

    Make it to where the very idea of committing terror attacks brings to mind a long series of setbacks, restrictions, limitations and costs brought to bear of Islam in general. Make the idea of gaining concessions is not even a possibility but rather nothing losses to Islam and all of its followers will stem from such actions.


    Islam should be put on a Probationary status in America, were current residents who are Muslims need to register with the federal and state governments, much like a gun registration, due to their Religions involvement in terrorist around the world, and here on our soil.


    In fact, because of Islams PAST efforts to get Sharia Law implemented in America, by violent actions, the follow list of special restrictions should be placed on the Religion of Islam ONLY, because of its attempts to gain special concessions by violence:

    Owning a copy of Koran needs to be a registered activity, again, mush like owning a gun.

    Operating a Mosque needs to approved, just like getting a liquor license, and the institution needs to be bonded and insured against claims made against it if any member participates in an attack. There would be a limited number of Mosque licenses approved for any community, just like the limit to Liquor Licenses.

    If you commit any violent crime, your right to own a Koran, or visit or operate a Mosque can and will be revoked.

    Obtaining a License to own a Koran will be an acceptance to have your email, phone calls, and residence searched at any time.

    Possession of a Koran without a License will result in 10 year imprisonment at hard labor, and if a foreign national, followed by permanent deportation.

    Islamic public gatherings will be limited to no more than 200 persons without a special permit, and 500 persons with a 2 month advance notice permit, subject to insurance and bonding requirements, and the group needs to pay the local government for the added costs of police, fire department and emergency personnel.

    Public speaking in a Mosque, as a Imam or other Clergy will require bonding, insurance and local, state and federal level licenses, any one of which can revoke the license for all public address. The license will include a special fee to pay for added intelligence work and security associated with monitoring Islam.

    Anyone visiting a Mosque will be required to show photo ID and be subject to immediate personal search. Government owned, installed, maintained and operated surveillance cameras will be required in all Mosques.

    If any member or even single time visitor to a Mosque commits a terror attack, the Mosque will be closed and demolished.

    Place an immediate moratorium on all immigration and even temporary visit visas of any Muslim foreign national until a count down clock of 10 years has passed without any Domestic Islamic Radical Terror Attacks. After the first 10 year countdown, only visitation will be allowed, and immigration will be held off for another 10 year countdown.

    This set of restriction is ONLY to be placed on the Religion of Islam, and not on any other religion, until another religion demonstrates the same kind of violent behavior seen in the last two decades by Muslims.

    If Islam can prevent any further acts of violence for 20 years by their members in the United States, these restrictions will be revoked.

    The above set of restrictions is quickly formed, and probably not the "RIGHT" list, but it conveys the general approach, and shows the sternness and far reaching impact any effective set of restrictions would need to have, to make a significant impact.

    The general concept is to dis-abuse Radical Islam of any notion that further attacks against Americans will result in any sort of Appeasement Concession, but rather will result is strict, far reaching, and limitations, costs and restrictions on the practice of Islam in America.

    Make it absolutely clear, terror attacks will NEVER, EVER, EVER result in America Adopting the slightest measure of Sharia Law.

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  3. Silhouette

    Silhouette New Member

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    hmmm... This is a situation that is much older and more complex, that has been brewing for a long time.

    When I solve problems, I back WAY into space and look at the planet and its cultures like I'm looking at an ant farm. See if you can address the question from that perspective instead of with the nose pressed right up against the glass. I should've said that in the OP but I thought the Rammstein video might illustrate that.
     
  4. SFJEFF

    SFJEFF New Member

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    Ironic coming from someone whose signature says:

    It is only a Bill of RIGHTS if you stand up for it.

    Freedom of Religion is not only for those you like or even for those whose religion you approve of.

    It is for all of us- to worship- or not worship- as we please.
     
  5. Kurmugeon

    Kurmugeon Well-Known Member

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    When you murder people, you lose those rights.

    If you belong to an organization which commits murder to attempt to achieve a beneficial outcome, all members of that organization can be charged as conspirators, particularly if they acknowledge that the subgroup of the organization is using violence to try to advanced the interests of that organization.

    All of this is proven law by the battles against organized crime.

    How is Islamic Terrorism not Organized Crime?

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  6. septimine

    septimine New Member

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    I think freedom of religion is non negotiatble personally, but for me, at least in immigration Islam might be a sort of thumb on the scale if there are other issues with the person's application. Islam alone won't keep you out, that's unfair, but Islam plus something that looks like trouble (left to intellegence to figure out) would be enough. It might be as simple as a visit to certain nations, visiting certain websites, posting inflamitory things on youtube or a blog -- by themselves it might not be enough to say no, but that and the person is a practicing muslim, it would be enough to keep the guy out.

    I think America could tone down the rhetoric a bit, though I don't think it's rhetoric that's driving this. the first fatwa against America was in the 1980's, we weren't even into the middle east in the 1980's, so something else is going on. I think it's the same kind of thing as the end-times stuff we see here -- people think it's the end of the world, so they get crazy.
     
  7. SFJEFF

    SFJEFF New Member

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    Actually here in the United States we have this thing called the "Bill of Rights"- I mistakenly believed you were familiar with it.

    If a person murders someone, then those rights can be restricted- but only after a trial and conviction.

    If you belong to the KKK and know that the KKK plans on murdering black people, you can be arrested and tried for conspiracy.

    Your problem is that Islam is not an organization. This reminds me really of those who claim that there is some worldwide Jewish conspiracy.

    Islam is a faith. There are some really, really bad people who claim to be part of that religion. They- and anyone who helps them- are guilty of the crimes they do. Not everyone who happens to believe in the same god.

    No...even belonging to the Mafia doesn't make you a murderer- let alone making any Italian guilty because of something the Mafia does.


    I think Islamic Terrorism is worse than organized crime.

    But the Bill of Rights still apply.

    Luckily the Bill of Rights protects peaceful American Muslims from the repression that you advocate- repression which by the way I think Islamic Terrorists would be thrilled about
     
  8. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    Islamic terrorism began as a protest, once thought the only way to free the Middle east of Dictators and foreigners.

    Well us foreigners aren't going anywhere because we still want to buy the oil, at least for now (and that requires working the oil wells), but as for the Dictators: the Arab Spring has shown that there is an alternative to terrorism.

    Now sometimes the terrorists are even siding with the wrong side of the protest (Hezbollah and Syria). Now the dynamic has changed. Now we just need to wait a few decades to see if the terrorist groups fall apart like a house of cards at the hands of their old supporters.
     
  9. Silhouette

    Silhouette New Member

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    wgabrie is closest I think...but there's an even bigger picture. It's a picture of extremes in both cultures that have reached such a point that even the most flexible of tolerant minds in each cannot be bent further. That's when problems exactly like what we are facing begin to spiral out of control...

    The solution is honest, difficult, gruelling self-examination. Let's start by guessing what it is in our culture that has become utterly intolerable to the islamics. Then we can talk about the things in their culture that have become utterly intolerable too...
     
  10. Wizard From Oz

    Wizard From Oz Banned at Members Request

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    I will give you a clue. America needs an enemy. The Russians went away, so Islam has stepped into the breech. Give it 20 years or so and all the hate will be China
     
  11. Kurmugeon

    Kurmugeon Well-Known Member

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    Why?

    Why do we need to understand the things in our culture that Islam finds intolerable?

    So we can CHANGE to their Ideals as a Appeasement Concession so they won't kill us any more?

    Did the "Land for Peace" treaties work with the same group for Israel, or quadruple the number of Gholam Heights Rocket Attacks coming into their country?

    You're Thread is trying, once again, to walk us down the path into Appeasement Concessions with Radical Islam!

    That will NOT stop the attacks, it will increase them!

    We we need to do is communicate to Islam as a WHOLE, that violence will only bring them limitation, costs, and restrictions. We need to make it absolutely clear, they will never get anything from violence but their own suffering!

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  12. Zo0tie

    Zo0tie New Member

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    OK Kurmey you've had your two minutes of hate. Now time for you daily dose of thorazine. :alcoholic:
     
  13. Kurmugeon

    Kurmugeon Well-Known Member

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    And how is trying to stop violence by making it not rewarded by Appeasement Concessions ....

    How is not rewarding violence, but punishing it with restrictions that make further violence something to be avoided ...

    How is that construed in your twisted mind into "Hate"?

    Who's side are you on?

    Do you WANT Radical Islamic Terrorism to work for the Terrorists?

    And come to think of it... who is crazy? The person trying to achieve peace, with an opportunity, with 20 years of demonstrated good behavior, for redemption, or someone who wants to reward Terrorism with gifts?

    I think you need to re-evaluate.

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  14. leftysergeant

    leftysergeant New Member

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    Well, freaking DUH!

    So where do you get one congregation of Muslims being responsible for murders committed by another?

    Fundies are burning witches in Uganda.

    Shut down all protestant churches until that (*)(*)(*)(*) STOPS.

    You're cool with that, right?
     
  15. leftysergeant

    leftysergeant New Member

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    How does denying a Malian immigrant or a second-generation Lebanese American a place to worship punishing a Salafi lunatic in Saudi Arabia?

    Do you ever bother to think these things out before you post?
     
  16. Kurmugeon

    Kurmugeon Well-Known Member

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    If a group of Muslims in America complete denounced and disassociates itself from the radical elements doing the violence, and demonstrates by its members acting peaceably like members of every other Religion in the U.S., such as Hindus, Sikhs, Christians, Native Americans, Pagans, etc...

    If a group of Muslims firmly removes itself from being PART of those committing the violence, then, like those Italian Immigrants who walked away from the Mafia life-style, they would not be subject to the same restrictions as the Radical Muslims. Just like those Italians who did not participate in organized crime, were not pursued by the Feds.

    But we did NOT stop the Mafia, by making deals, and Appeasement Concessions with the Mafia.

    If you let the Terrorist get ANYTHING positive from the violence, you'll only get 20X more of it.

    They want Islam to progress in America and around the world. So, make it damn clear that violence will NOT accomplish that goal!

    Don't give them an INCH, and force all of the Non-Radical Muslims to completely disassociate from the Radicals, or be counted among them.

    Why is this so hard for you to understand?

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  17. leftysergeant

    leftysergeant New Member

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    What in the hell makes you think that you have a right to make people jump through hoops to allay your childish fears before they can exercise their human rights?

    Why are you not out denouncing the churches that are funding the idiot "Christian" fundamentalist preachers in Uganda?
     
  18. Kurmugeon

    Kurmugeon Well-Known Member

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    Childish Fears?

    Thousands of innocent Americans are DEAD and/or Maimed?

    No Foreigner has the right to demand immigration into America, period.

    No American Citizen has the right to continue to support an organization which is KILLING other Americans, Period.

    Continue to hold allegiance with those killing U.S. and you'll be treated exactly as if you're ONE of the THEM.

    Just like we told the Italians, "Regardless of what you're used to in old Italy, here in America, the Mafia will not be accepted. Disassociate yourself from them, or be treated as one of them!".

    Well, here's the message for all the non-violent Muslims, "Disassociate yourself from the Radical Muslims, or be treated as one of them!"

    You've got the next twenty years to convince U.S. you mean it, in the mean time, no more Muslim Immigration.

    If the Radical Muslim attacks continue, all of the things I outlined above and more, will be coming your way, unless you convince U.S. you're not one of them.

    No Muslim will ever get so much as the time of day, a leaf or a Popsicle, for their violence. It won't work, we won't be cowed, we won't be intimidated into surrender.

    If you want to play by the rules and act nice, like every one else, after sufficient time to prove you mean it, you'll be allowed back into our trust.

    -
     
  19. Pregnar Kraps

    Pregnar Kraps New Member Past Donor

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    I only just skimmed this post but it looks very interesting!
     
  20. DivineComedy

    DivineComedy Well-Known Member

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    They have to admit the Koran is flawed and the Hadith is flawed. {period} Unless they can do that there is no hope for them, ever, to take and maintain a moderate course. MoHamMad cannot be a prophet of God without denigrating parts of that Book and Hadith.

    Then they have to realize that the words attributed to Jesus in the New Testament Gospel do not call upon us to follow any Book, or long dead fathers, but to follow God and listen to the Holy Spirit. {The very process is called reasoning.}

    As it is now too much of their morality is based upon an unchanging Book not reason. Many Christians need to realize many of the same things. And the only way reasoning works is with Freedom of Speech, may the best arguments win, so on our part we must impeach this:

    Official Statecraft of the United States of America, the first one was posted on the State Department's website:

    "The United States deplores any intentional effort to denigrate the religious beliefs of others." (Clinton)

    "We reject all efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others." (Obama)
    http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...3479-its-actually-closer-us-being-idiots.html


    “Let me state very clearly that the United States has absolutely nothing to do with this video. We absolutely reject its contents.” (Clinton) http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/...-pakistan-ad-denouncing-anti-muslim-film?lite


    “If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same; or”
    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/241


    After we have impeached and convicted Obama and Clinton, and put them both in prison for their violations of their oaths of office, we can move on with the corrections and reproof, denigrating Shaitan and his lying a murderous ways, to help our Muslim brothers and fellow Christians.
     
  21. DivineComedy

    DivineComedy Well-Known Member

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    I have read some of what they have done, so yes, I now denounce their idiot preachers. Next?
     
  22. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

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    Wow, they are pretty much polar opposites of each other. Understanding that would be your first step in even being able to identify the problem. Let alone solve it.

    36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
    37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” .

    In contrast to Islam-

    Volume 1, Book 2, Number 26: Narrated Abu Huraira:
    Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause."
     
  23. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

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    Now, why does the above description sound exactly like America-or does America not murder people, torture people or use violence in order to maintain global hegemony?
     
  24. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

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    "Jihad" is not "religious fighting". Jihad means 'struggle', and does not imply violence-except, of course, to those who prefer to use emotive semantics to bolster their agenda. http://news.nationalgeographic.co.uk/news/2003/10/1023_031023_jihad.html
     
  25. DivineComedy

    DivineComedy Well-Known Member

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    “The President’s strategy is absolutely clear about the threat we face. Our enemy is not ‘terrorism’ because terrorism is but a tactic. Our enemy is not ‘terror’ because terror is a state of mind and as Americans we refuse to live in fear. Nor do we describe our enemy as ‘jihadists’ or ‘Islamists’ because jihad is a holy struggle, a legitimate tenant of Islam, meaning to purify oneself or one’s community, and there is nothing holy or legitimate or Islamic about murdering innocent men, women and children.” (Remarks by Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism John Brennan at CSIS)
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press...ecurity-and-counterterrorism-john-brennan-csi

    To purify one’s community is a Final Solution, hence why Hitler lamented that his country’s religion was not like Islam.

    - - - Updated - - -

    No kidding, it is like night and day, darkness and light, blackened (denigrate) and whitened.

    "The United States deplores any intentional effort to denigrate the religious beliefs of [Shaitan]." (Clinton)

    "We reject all efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of [Satan]." (Obama)

    They must be impeached.
     

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