~ MOD ALERT ~ Why is Pro-Life seen as Anti-Woman?

~ MOD ALERT ~



I'm actually pretty indifferent to abortion in general. I don't really know if the fetus can be considered a human life or not at that early stage of life, so I'm not emotionally involved in the abortion debate.

However, something I see a lot when I do read these arguments is the assumption that all pro-lifers are anti-woman misogynists who want to take away their choice. It's always appeared to me that pro-lifers oppose abortion because they believe it's murder and not because they "hate women."

Can some pro-choicers here explain why this accusation is true?

 

Anyone who opposes abortion because he believes it's murder would promote laws proven to reduce abortion--comprehensive sex education and free and easily accessible birth control. Legislation does not. Waiting periods, mandatory counseling, and the most abhorrent of all, mandatory ultrasounds, are degrading to women and have never been shown to reduce the abortion rate. Yet pro-lifers consistently support laws proven ineffective for reducing abortion rates (but punish women), and oppose proven ways to reduce abortions.

 

Contrary to popular belief, there is no significant difference between men and women when it comes to opinions on abortion. I dont think misogyny is an important factor in abortion debate.

Speculation: one would expect that women will be more likely to support having a choice, however this is offset by their higher religiosity and maybe some motherly instinct to protect babies.

 

The reason that many in the anti-choice movement are seen as anti-woman is because they are:
1. The demean women regularly that have to make that tough choice calling them stupid or lazy if the get pregnant when they dont' want to.
2. They say things like "legitimate rape" and "shut that whole thing down".
3. They oppose comprehensive sexuality education and birth control because they don't want women the freedom to make sexual choices.
4. They slut shame women
5. They impose barriers to abortion that violate women's bodies and minds. Transvaginal ultrasounds against a woman's will is rape.

How is that?

 

Read some of the posts from the male "pro-lifers" in this Forum alone.

Ripe with "women want to play, they have to pay" (i.e. women want sex, they MUST get and stay pregnant as punishment)....rants on "feminists"....."oppressed men"....etc.

And a few of them are not in...or never have been in....a serious relationship with a woman.

 

Most pro-lifers oppose abortion because they want to preserve a "WAY of life". That way of life is patriarchy. While it's difficult to see why women would prefer patriarchy, you have to recognize that plenty of women have learned to work the system of patriarchy to their advantage and they do not want, therefore, to have to compete on an equal level. The system of patriarchy is threatened by sexual freedom for women. Women's sexuality is supposed to be controlled, first by a female's father and then by her husband, no other alternatives. Ready access to contraception, education on how to use it, and abortion as a back-up threatens patriarchy by giving women sexual freedom. That is why, contrary to common sense, those opposing abortion often also oppose contraception and comprehensive sex ed in public schools.

Patriarchs don't necessarily hate women, but they do want to control them because an out-of-control woman threatens their control. You will frequently see pro-lifers express that women should have to have the permission of the "father" to get an abortion, and attempts have been made to pass laws requiring that. That reveals that it's not actually the abortion that's the problem, the problem is power in the hands of women.

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Women can be misogynists too.

 

Or they are using pure psychological projection of their own self-guilt outwardly on other women.

 

Could be, I'm not a psychologist. I really think it is as simple as the fact that a lot of women have learned to work the system to their advantage. They get really good at manipulating the men in control to give them what they want, then they don't have to compete on an equal basis or work at getting what they want. Those women feel as threatened as men by an upset in the balance of power.

Now, as far as abortion goes, we are all influenced by our personal experiences. Some women have great success with contraception, and those women tend to believe that other women who have birth control failures are just stupid or careless. Some women don't suffer very much from pregnancy and are able to continue with the lives without a great deal of disruption, and those women tend to think that other women who do suffer are just wimps or hypochondriacs. It's somewhat understandable why those women don't see the need for abortion.

 

Look at some of the Rightwing women who are the biggest "pro-lifers"....like Ann Coulter or Laura Ingraham.

Neither of which have EVER been pregnant.

 

I think she nailed you pretty good with that Anders. Given numerous statements you've made in this Forum.

 

I just find it amusing the lengths pro-choicers will go to try to paint pro-lifers as "anti-woman".

 

I am definitely "Pro-Woman", as can be proven by the countless posts I have made on this forum. Here's just a few:
http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=278667&highlight=gendercide
http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=269383&highlight=tell+gendercide

 

Have you not in the past made statements along the lines of "If a woman wants to 'play' (i.e. have sex)....she has to 'pay' (i.e. stay pregnant if she gets pregnant)"???

 

No, that is just your imagination.

 

That is an outright lie. I believe abortion is murder and so do some of our laws that are in place. I have no problem with sex education...I have no problem with some birth control...not the ones that possibly could kill an already fertilized baby however. There is nothing wrong with informing women who might not just know about fetal development....nothing wrong with showing an sonogram. Its not a baby is it? So why do you oppose it? What is wrong with counseling? None of those are degrading to women...only to those who want to promote abortion who don't want women to have all the facts. What is the harm in waiting a few days?
Because we want abortion made illegal does not mean reductions by restricting it in state laws are not a good thing. Anything that would save a childs life would be worth it.

You want to punish the life in the womb.

 

What is wrong with this?

You play with fire you can get burnt. You take the risk of having sex, protected or unprotected and the results always can be pregnancy.

You open a credit card and you have a spending problem...you charge it to the max........who should have to pay for what you bought? Me? no YOU.

You should take responsibility.

 

Yes and look at the people on this forum...who spout off about abortion and NEVER HAVE HAD ONE.

LMAO

Yet they tell me I don't know what I am talking about. They tell me how I should have felt and how 100% of the women who have had them feel.

Yea right. Anders she didn't nail you on anything,,,,nothing.

 

A lie. We want to preserve life....because we are on the side that values it and does not think killing should be an option to solve problems. That is not a way of life...that is life.
We believe like the Constitution says,...Life Liberty and the Pursuit...and the greatest of these LIFE. That includes the life in the womb. We include them in the basic rights of every living human being. That is a basic right...to be able to live.

 

Then you really should be doing something about all the killing of the live sperm and eggs. All that contraception results in the deaths of eggs and sperm. Eggs and sperm that are alive and human. That's human life.

 

I totally agree with you. But what's your response to pro-choicers who accuse pro-lifers of wanting to "dehumanize women" and "put women on a lesser status than the fetus"?

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Sperm and egg aren't organisms. Sperm and egg combined make a human organism, but in and of themselves, sperm or egg are not living human organisms, unlike a fetus or an embryo.

 

The cry is to defend "human life" and eggs and sperm are human life. Are you sure that the goal of pro-lifers is to defend "human organisms"? Because I see a lot of pro-lifers protesting the use of emergency contraception, which only affects eggs and sperm, it will not affect an organism.

 

Personally I don't think the majority of pro-lifers want to dehumanize women (there are exceptions though), as to reducing the status of a woman anti-abortion laws cannot achieve anything else but that, which is why I find it strange that so many pro-lifers stand against comprehensive sex education and contraception .. there is no factual link between certain contraception and embryo abortion.

I don't see pro-lifers campaigning for the protection of human organisms, they campaign for the protection of human life, sperm and eggs are human life.

 

It's a politically charged accusation made to get votes, and not one I support.

 

I have never seen a politician make that accusation.