Sincere apologies for taking 5 years to understand NDE comments on Gay Community!

I personally am ashamed of myself for being a Christian who could not understand this message for about five years!!!!!

http://www.near-death.com/andreason.html#a09

 

Umm...thanks. What does NDE mean?

 

Er.... Near Death Experience. It's in the URL.

A blog reporting NDE claims, and this sudden "enlightenment" that comes with it......................

 

Oops, sorry. I just glanced quickly at the post.

 

Although I have never had one I take them very seriously. I got myself excommunicated from two churches that taught "soul sleep" in a dogmatic manner because of my research into NDE's.

This summer I read perhaps fifty NDE accounts to my ten year old daughter. She loves the ones where people meet a deceased pet....she loves the ones described by children and by women.

This one where an experiencer meets her deceased Springer Maggie is perhaps her favourite:


http://www.near-death.com/experiences/animals01.html

At this time my theory is that although we humans are made in the image of God....both in an Ancient of Days the FAther as well as an Ancient of Days the Mother (that may perhaps be identifiable with the Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost)....animals are made in the image of angels.......for example a cherub can sometimes be in the form of a horse or Pegasus type of creature????!!!!

 

I thank you for getting the discussion started though!!!

As we study these accounts we run into some pretty amazing ideas.

http://www.allaboutchristian.com/spirituality/

I read both of Helen Wambach Ph. D.'s books on visions of past lives as seen in a hypnotic trance. I went to a local hypnotherapist back in perhaps 1992 or 1993 to be regressed. As I felt the process begin I got scared...and thus could not be hypnotized. Interestingly enough though Ms. Debbie Young was also psychic and told me that she perceived that I had been a woman in my most recent past life. That I had been a teacher and had died in a concentration camp???????!!!!!

I now suspect that the Gay Community will be vastly more likely to accept and teach humanity about how we can be both men as well as women as we go through the reincarnation cycle....which within a couple of centuries should revolutionize the tendency for religious guys to attempt to verbally or physically abuse their wife, partner, or daughters into mindless obedience??!! The thought of coming back as a woman and getting some of our own medicine (negative karma) can transform society as we know it!!!!!

 

By this point I realize you aren't being sarcastic. In the OP, I wasn't so sure.

The Christian churches I grew up in, (Baptist, Assemblies of God) all taught that we love others, as we love ourselves. No matter what the crime or sin.

Now... the issue most commonly debated is whether or not homosexuality is sin.
All I can do is use my situation then.. where I happen to believe the Bible when it addresses sin, and that we all do it. That one sin is no better or worse than another. That we are all born with sin, and we are to (as Christians) avoid it the best we can... basically "altogether". The reality of that is slim.
The reality is also that there are many "Christians", and other religious people, who condemn homosexuals. Which is completely wrong. If they have a problem with it, and believe homosexuality is a sin, then they need to focus on the sin... not the person. That's a line that is crossed way too much. I could say "well those people aren't Christians then"... but they probably believe they are and are interpreting the Bible in their way (although I have never come across any New Testament teachings of condemning sinners).

Regardless.. it's wrong. No matter what the religion, and no matter what the sin.

For gays who may believe it's not a sin, or don't even care what people think, then of course to them it feels like complete condemnation and we need to, as Christians, try to make sure our actions are clearer. The easiest way of doing so is to love them as people and not treat them differently as so many tend to do.

I learned all that without ever having one of those so called "near death experiences".... it's all in the Bible

Where you really lose me though is the whole reincarnation thing... and the "karma" that just doesn't exist in my belief system.
But if it's yours I respect that and won't address it.

 

Thank you for not condemning my belief in some form of reincarnation. For the record I do believe that the prophet Elijah was a separate and unique individual who is in paradise/heaven with Messiah Jesus/ Yeshua and John the Baptist also was separate and unique from Elijah.....but an angel may have been sent down by the God of Abraham, the Creator of heaven and earth, to incarnate into a physical body to give these two prophets much of their amazing abilities. If my theory on this is incorrect....I am sorry for being misleading....but this is the best that I can do in attempting to put the Helen Wambach Ph. D. and Dr. Ian Stevenson research into a context where what they discovered rather than being entirely contradictory to scripture......could within three or four decades be regarded as replicable, verifiable, anecdotal evidence strongly indicative of the survival of the human spirit or soul after death....as well as a possible explanation as to how the Creator somehow records each of us.....so that we can be resurrected?????!!!!


Genesis 28:12
"And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it."

So my belief is that our soul or human spirit.....is an angel.......that in a sense is separate and unique from us as individuals.....but also connected to us as well?????!!!!!

 

One of the possible implications of the Helen Wambach Ph. D. research to homosexuality is that if my "angel" and/or human spirit/soul was in a woman in my most recent past life......then this could be relevant to the idea of "being born that way!???!!"

Over sixty percent of her volunteers were women....but of the thousands of past lives studied it worked out that fifty percent were of men!!!!!!

http://www.carolmoore.net/articles/helenwambach.html

 

As much as I subscribe to the concept of reincarnation, is it really compatible with the Bible?

 

And it sounds like you're trying to reconcile spiritualism with Christianity. I personally believe that the key is to deconstruct your existing beliefs as hard as that may be and look at things with an open mind - not try and make the evidence fit the religion. I personally view the Abrahamic religions as being very far from the ultimate truth.

 

Homosexuality is a sin according to your Christian faith so you should be ashamed of yourself.

 

I personally believe that it is........


Genesis 28:12


"And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it."

The Chassidic Jewish community teach that BOTH reincarnation as well as resurrection are huge truths.

Yes....we as individuals can be "saved" and go on to some sort of heaven......but also we have a soul/ human spirit....that may also ultimately be an angel........that is very close to The Ancient of Days the Father and the Ancient of Days the Mother?????!!!!

 

Pride......self-righteousness.......self-importance and a feeling of superiority are sins that I myself as a Christian was full of in the past......These sins can be more difficult to repent of than sins of the flesh......… I feel that we Christians need to take the sins that we fall into more seriously.......get those beams out of our own eyes........ then we will be able to manifest the "mind of Christ" through our words and thoughts and actions.....and then the awakening/ revival....that is predicted for our time period will occur!!!!!


............Pastor Rick Joyner was shown how serious the types of sins that we Christians get into really are in the sight of God:

http://www.heaven.net.nz/visions/the-hordes-of-hell-are-marching.htm

The section of this visionary dream, about 2/3 of the way down the page, entitled The Judgment Seat of Christ is so brilliantly written that I personally consider that this is probably a genuinely inspired visionary dream?????!!!

 

Yes......I have came to the conclusion that there are no contradictions between what is revealed in near death experience accounts with the Jewish or Christians Bible.......but this is a conclusion that required reading hundreds of NDE accounts and comparing them with scripture.......

The key.....is that our human, spirit/soul......may be an angel.......that is right there in the presence of the original Creator????!!!!

http://www.allaboutchristian.com/spirituality/index.html

(Christian Andreason, chapter 2)

 

Christian Andreason, chapter 5:

http://www.allaboutchristian.com/spirituality/index.html

Our human spirit - soul - angel inside of us.....is on one level like a DVD in that our memories, identity, individuality and personality are recorded on it ......so that we can be resurrected.....and go to some sort of heaven/paradise.....but on top of that.....our angel - soul - human spirit.....also reincarnates......into many situations to learn empathy, compassion and humility.......

 

I'm not seeing a lot of Biblical evidence there supporting reincarnation. Christian teachings are that we have one shot at this thing and if we mess it up by sinning without repenting or choosing the wrong religion, we suffer eternal damnation. How do you explain away all the verses supporting that?

 

Good point DevilMay!!! I actually believe in both resurrection as well as some form of reincarnation. I do believe that the evidence when put together indicates that God is creating more and more and more and more individuals....and yes....each of us has a conscious soul - spirit that survives our death....and yes.....that soul goes on to one of the heaven or paradise or hell or purgatory type of environments after death.

But.....Rabbi Jesus - Yeshua taught that John the Baptist was somehow Elijah???!!!

What did Rabbi Jesus mean by what he said on this topic.

I tried my best to word this for a Christian audience in this discussion:


http://www.christianforums.com/t7670636/
How exactly was John the Baptist somehow Elijah????
I personally feel that this question has enormous potential to help Messianic Jews and Messianic Gentiles have a better relationship with the Orthodox and Chassidic Jewish communities.


And His disciples asked Him, “Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?” 11 And He answered and said, “Elijah is coming and will restore all things; 12 but I say to you that Elijah already came, and they did not recognize him, but did [d]to him whatever they wished. So also the Son of Man is going to suffer [e]at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that He had spoken to them about John the Baptist.
Matthew 17 NASB - The Transfiguration - Six days later - Bible Gateway

I am no expert but I do suspect strongly that the dream that Jacob had may provide us with a major clue to how John the Baptist could be termed Elijah by Rabbi Jesus/Yehoshua:

Genesis 28:12
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
12 He had a dream, and behold, a ladder was set on the earth with its top reaching to heaven; and behold, the angels of God were ascending and descending on it.

 

DevilMay......do you find any serious flaws in the way that Christian Andreason explained the role of Messiah Jesus - Yeshua after his NDE?

http://www.near-death.com/andreason.html#a06

 

No, it's not. Then again, I think the bible is mostly a work of fiction, and to the degree that it get's anything right vis-a-vis real spirituality, it is out of sheer chance, just as a broken clock is right twice a day for the same reason. But I think the OP is spot on (assuming he's not being sarcastic), and same sex attraction has more to do with our spiritual existence than our genetic make-up or childhood developmental factors. If you spent your last 10 lives as a woman, even though you don't remember them (at least most of us don't), it's going to be hard to break such a long time of being attracted to men.

- - - Updated - - -

The christian faith is wrong about that. As it is many, many other things.

 

Something interesting about the NDE of Christian Andreason is that he is given a good explanation for some of those miracles recorded in the Jewish Bible:

http://www.allaboutchristian.com/spirituality/

 

Actually.....I don't want to try to explain them away because in one way maybe those are the most relevant to each of us as individuals????!!!!

In his visionary dream of heaven back in 1995 Rick Joyner met a deceased Christian friend of his who had made it to a low level of heaven:

https://www.facebook.com/notes/west...ho-made-itbut-tough-life-revi/675114595845810

Rick Joyner meets shy - introverted friend in heaven.....who made it....but tough life review!!!

http://www.heaven.net.nz/visions/the-hordes-of-hell-are-marching.htm

 

Yes.....we Christians are wrong about many things....but good news......because every religious belief system on earth is about to be given more and more and more light in order to become more spiritual as opposed to religious!

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/reincarnation04.html#a09

 

Do you believe people stay forever in the "lower" portions of heaven? Or that one can progress to higher and more beautiful "realms"...?

I think personally everything gravitates and "evolves" upwards, no matter how long it takes.

 

Yes........ I run into more and more evidence for this trend the more I study NDE accounts and related phenomena.