japan to deploy missles on island could spark WW#3 Nov 1st with china

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by trucker, Oct 26, 2013.

  1. trucker

    trucker Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    23,945
    Likes Received:
    3,357
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    humm this is got to pis* of china a lot just the threat of shooting down a drone by japan set them off , now this by japan WOW!
    [​IMG]
    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/10/24/331015/japan-to-hold-major-military-exercise/
    more http://news.yahoo.com/japan-readies-huge-island-wargames-amid-youtube-pr-063504362.html
     
    waltky and (deleted member) like this.
  2. trucker

    trucker Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    23,945
    Likes Received:
    3,357
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Japan to deploy Type 88 anti-ship missile to Ishigaki island [video=youtube;1xbiCOA_wYU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xbiCOA_wYU[/video]
     
  3. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    30,071
    Likes Received:
    1,204
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Granny says, "Dat's right - Obama gonna get us in another one o' dem crazy Asian wars...
    :grandma:
    Obama: Senkaku Islands 'within scope' of US-Japan security treaty
    April 22, 2014 ~ The "Article 5" treaty stipulates U.S. defense obligations to Japan, and Obama's comment means the U.S. will defend Japan in the event of a Chinese incursion on the islets, over which China also claims sovereignty.
    See also:

    China seizes Japanese ship in dispute dating to 1930s
    April 21, 2014 — In a fresh reminder of the unresolved wartime grievances between China and Japan, authorities in Shanghai have seized a Japanese ship over claims dating back to the 1930s.
     
  4. Borat

    Borat Banned

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Messages:
    23,909
    Likes Received:
    9,859
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yep, that's the price of the Western impotence, cowardice and inaction. Every country the West has promised to protect has been betrayed by the West when it mattered...Czechoslovakia, Poland during WWII, Israel post WWII, Georgia and Ukraine now... The rest of the world is taking notice and rapidly losing faith in West's empty promises and bogus guarantees.

    There is no world policeman any more, everyone fend for themselves...and an enormous world-wide arms race is beginning as we speak.
     
  5. Pronin24

    Pronin24 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2014
    Messages:
    4,106
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Borat, you have piled up a bunch of phony examples about betrayal. Russia is taking care against aggression near its borders. Russia does not mess in Mexico or Canada. This is our country is poking its nose, where it should not have any business. The Soviet Union is not any more, the cold war is over. USA did not do anything good to the world after WWIII.
     
  6. Borat

    Borat Banned

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Messages:
    23,909
    Likes Received:
    9,859
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The US, Russia and the West swore to defend and protect Ukraine's territorial integrity (which includes Crimea) in exchange for Ukraine dismantling its nuclear weapons. The world is taking notice that the West does not keep its promises...Japan (in the OP) is the first to start arming itself, to be followed by the rest of the planet.


    PS Pronin, your country is Russia even if you live in the US now, your broken english is not fooling anyone ;)
     
  7. ThirdTerm

    ThirdTerm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
    Messages:
    4,318
    Likes Received:
    456
    Trophy Points:
    83
    [​IMG]

    U.S. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel delivered a two-pronged warning to Asia Pacific nations Sunday, announcing that the U.S. will send two additional ballistic missile destroyers to Japan to counter the North Korean threat, and saying China must better respect its neighbors. In unusually forceful remarks about China, Hagel drew a direct line between Russia's takeover of Ukraine's Crimea region and the ongoing territorial disputes between China, Japan and others over remote islands in the East China Sea. "I think we're seeing some clear evidence of a lack of respect and intimidation and coercion in Europe today with what the Russians have done with Ukraine," Hagel told reporters after a meeting with Japanese Defense Minister Itsunori Onodera. "We must be very careful and we must be very clear, all nations of the world, that in the 21st century this will not stand, you cannot go around the world and redefine boundaries and violate territorial integrity and sovereignty of nations by force, coercion and intimidation whether it's in small islands in the Pacific or large nations in Europe." "In response to Pyongyang's pattern of provocative and destabilising actions ... I can announce today that the United States is planning to forward-deploy two additional AEGIS ballistic missile defence ships to Japan," Hagel told reporters.

    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/04/06/us-deploying-drones-and-missile-destroyers-to-bolster-us-japan-defense-alliance/
     
  8. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    41,184
    Likes Received:
    16,180
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So you'd rather we paid for it all ourselves? If there's an arms race it's fine with me, because guess who they'll be buying all the weapons from. As prosperous and powerful as we are we CANNOT continue to protect the entire world from each other, we can't afford it and no nation could.
     
  9. Borat

    Borat Banned

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Messages:
    23,909
    Likes Received:
    9,859
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well, very nice of Chuck Hagel to say all that...too bad all his hot air does not help Ukraine to get Crimea back, does not help Georgia to get their land back, won't help Japan to get their islands back if they are invaded and occupied by China...Too bad that talk is cheap, too bad Putin is getting off scot free for his land theft.
     
  10. Borat

    Borat Banned

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Messages:
    23,909
    Likes Received:
    9,859
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Fair enough except for the promises made and not kept.
     
  11. protowisdom

    protowisdom New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2014
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You have no basis for assuming that what Hagel is saying is hot air. It might be a bluff but also, it might not be a bluff.

    The basic conflict is that the United States and China both want to be the leader of the new world order, and this conflict is coming to the fore. So will the United sit back and just let China become the leader of the new world order, or is the United States making preliminary preparations to fight? I myself don't know. However, it is interesting that the intense fighting between the political parties has stopped, except for some mere verbal sniping. That kind of cooperation between the two political parties is what usually happens during wars.
     
  12. Borat

    Borat Banned

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Messages:
    23,909
    Likes Received:
    9,859
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sure I have a pretty solid basis for my assumptions, the recent developments in Georgia (republican administration) and Ukraine (democratic administration) demonstrate quite conclusively that the US (and the West) is not capable of decent sanctions, let alone real assistance in returning the stolen lands. And this inaction is indeed bipartisan. Clearly the US is not going to attack China if it decides to occupy the disputed islands. It's also quite obvious based on the OP that the government of Japan is reaching exactly the same conclusions.
     
  13. John452

    John452 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2014
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Good for them. Relying on another nation for your defense is not an optimal strategy and Japan is big enough and has enough of a favorable geographic situation to be capable of defending themselves. If America comes to help all the better but it is best to have a backup plan.
     
  14. xAWACr

    xAWACr Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    626
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    18
    We weren't the only ones making promises, the EU was too. This is far more of a European problem than it is a US problem, so let Europe deal with it as they see fit.
     
  15. protowisdom

    protowisdom New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2014
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You are applying a historical point which is true, but you are leaving out of your considerations the strong developments in the recent conflict between the United States and China. A couple of years ago, the United States was sending officials to China's neighboring nations to band together against China. During that time, America has been redeploying military forces from other parts of the world to the Pacific areas near China.

    A bit over a year ago, the Chinese government said it could instantly destroy all but one of the American bases. The Chinese government also said that China could not easily cut the apron strings to the American economy and go it alone. For the past several years, China has been going all around the world to sign long term contracts for the raw materials produced by many nations, so China is getting towards the point where she can deny raw materials to American and other foreign manufacturers. Less than a year ago, China began limiting exports of rare earths, which are used in many modern electronics, to non-Chinese manufacturers. The military moves by China and the United States in the Japanese island dispute, and in the seizing, in the South China sea of sea bed which should belong to other nations under the 200 mile economic zone agreements, is probably already known to you.

    Then, China is moving to replace the dollar with the Yuan as the world's reserve currency, the world trade currency. If this happens, it will produce major economic damage to the American economy.

    Thus, this isn't a matter of just supporting a distant nation. It is a matter of the survival of America as a superpower. So that introduces additional motivations to the American policymakers.
     
  16. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    13,857
    Likes Received:
    1,159
    Trophy Points:
    113
    so Obama is now responsible for a japan/usa treaty that was signed a year before he was born?.....:roll: why does this not surprise me...
     
  17. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    55,518
    Likes Received:
    27,044
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You don't live in a Kazakh cave, do you? The US still doesn't accept Russia's takeover of Crimea, in case you've missed it. The US is hardly violating any agreement made with Ukraine.

    Thing is, the US has no way of stopping Russia without going into a shooting war against her. Do you want that? Do you really think it's called for? Are you prepared to lose loved ones, perhaps even your own life, to such a cause?
     
  18. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    55,518
    Likes Received:
    27,044
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    China has the means to take over from the US economically. They have plenty of gold reserves for one, and they have great industrial capacity for another.

    Russia is likewise rich in resources.. These countries are natural partners economically, and now perhaps politically as well as the US becomes ever more belligerent and hostile to the rest of the world in her bid to maintain control over the world -- for her own sake, really. With our political power will go our ecnomic power. Both are waning.. The US is presently saddled with immense debt, poor industrial infrastructure, and a population that's getting more and more discontented as our pretend wealth dwindles and the government continues to move away from the people it attempts to govern. There is a growing crisis of confidence in our system both domestically and abroad, and those fears are sadly well-founded. The dollar is over-printed paper that is increasingly bereft of any backing. It must collapse, as must our welfare-heavy society where EBT cards have tried to disguise the breadlines. We're a shinier, slicker late-life Soviet Union nearing its demise.
     
  19. Regular Joe

    Regular Joe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2013
    Messages:
    3,758
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Dang Durandal! You're so cynical. Must you insist on going around with your eyes wide open?
    I had never made that connection between EBT cards and bread lines, but Bingo!
     
  20. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    13,857
    Likes Received:
    1,159
    Trophy Points:
    113
    china will do nothing to hurt its 2nd largest market the usa economically...the russian market is about 1/10 the size...canada has no concerns selling china the same resources russia has....
     
  21. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    55,518
    Likes Received:
    27,044
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    China's got lots of markets, and the US is increasingly unable to repay China with anything of value for what they're receiving..
     
  22. Borat

    Borat Banned

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Messages:
    23,909
    Likes Received:
    9,859
    Trophy Points:
    113
    All your points, correct as they may be, merely confirm my previous statement. The world is watching and it sees that the US/Western assurances are not to be relied on, they are not dummies and they don't care much for explanations, excuses and technicalities..they will take the matter of self defense in their own hands and arm to their teeth before we can say Crimea.

    Whether it's good or bad remains to be seen but I have no doubt that both Ukraine and Japan will go nuclear in the next 3 to 5 years, they have no excuse not to. And they will be followed by the rest of the world...Putin opened a huge can of worms.
     
  23. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2013
    Messages:
    15,342
    Likes Received:
    5,337
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It's a NATO problem, and the US is heavily involved with NATO operations.
     
  24. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2013
    Messages:
    15,342
    Likes Received:
    5,337
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    We are repaying China by accepting their imported goods which the US consumer is buying by the shiploads. The Federal government, using federal lands to mine the coal, is sending China cheap coal subsidized by the taxpayer so they can manufacture the cheap trinkets Americans love so much.
     
  25. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2010
    Messages:
    43,996
    Likes Received:
    1,706
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Actually it isn't a NATO problem. Ukraine is not a member of NATO and thus is not protected under NATO's mutual defence treaty rules. NATO has no treaty obligations to Ukraine.
     

Share This Page