Time for the U.S. to Colonize the Moon and Mars.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by AboveAlpha, Nov 16, 2013.

  1. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    It is a very well known fact that a huge number of inventions, breakthroughs and medical advances have come from Space Exploration.

    For example Safety Glass used in all cars today....Advancements in Solar Power....Various Crystalline Growth in low gravity used in Telecommunications and where would we be now without Satellites?

    At this point in time if done right a program to set up PERMANENT COLONIES on our Moon and Mars could very well spark economic growth and again give people optimism which is necessary for economic growth.

    We certainly have the technology to do it....and I think the U.S. should lead the way.

    AboveAlpha
     
  2. PTPLauthor

    PTPLauthor Banned

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    The United States cannot "colonize" (*)(*)(*)(*) in outer space, per the Outer Space Treaty, which specifies that any and all exploration must be for the benefit of all mankind.

    Honestly, the best thing to do would be to have a coordinated multinational effort. We should seek to build a better society in space than we have on Earth. We have to put humankind's best face on if we are to have any hope of avoiding conflicts with undiscovered extraterrestrials.
     
  3. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    I am not saying we should do it alone...I am saying we should lay the groundwork for colonization as we are multiple decades ahead of any other country in such fields.

    AboveAlpha
     
  4. Cdnpoli

    Cdnpoli Banned

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    With what money?
     
  5. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    We could do this by using Commercial Contractors for 1/10th of the price NASA would cost.

    The return within 10 to 15 years would far exceed the investment.

    AboveAlpha
     
  6. PTPLauthor

    PTPLauthor Banned

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    We're not really decades ahead. That we landed men on the moon is largely irrelevant to going to the Red Planet, there are much more diverse and numerous challenges than were ever posed by the Apollo program.

    Much of the groundwork has already been laid by NASA programs, but with the launch of MOM, India will be gathering much-needed data. In time, other agencies will also bolster our collective understanding.

    I'm a proponent of Martian exploration and I believe the two plans Mars Direct and Mars To Stay should be undertaken concurrently to give the widest range of potential understanding.
     
  7. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Stage one would be to establish a base on the Moon then from there sent men to Mars.

    India's tech. as far as that probe is no where near what the U.S. has.

    AboveAlpha
     
  8. PTPLauthor

    PTPLauthor Banned

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    Using the Moon as the staging point for Martian exploration is a waste. It takes too much energy to use the moon as a base. I'm more interested in seeing a multiple-use space station in Earth orbit capable of sustaining its own orbit used as a truly permanent space presence. Such a station could be used for on-orbit construction of large spacecraft which would be capable of transporting large quantities of equipment needed for a permanent Martian settlement. In addition, the station could be used for numerous scientific uses, and potentially even recreational uses like a space hotel. Of course, that would not be feasible until an inexpensive, large-capacity reusable SSTO is in service that can drop per-kilo launch costs to a much lower level than is currently available.
     
  9. hoosier88

    hoosier88 Well-Known Member

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    (My bold)

    I agree with AboveAlpha. When we committed to landing a man on the moon, it wasn't clear how much technology & expertise would spin off from NASA to the civilian economy. Now we know that there are cross benefits, & that the effort itself generates economic growth. Our science/math/technology needs other outlets than forever trying to improve bombs, missiles, military aircraft.

    & we've spent from 2001 mired in Iraq, Afghanistan & points in the Middle East & elsewhere, playing whack-a-mole with terrorists that we don't understand. We've tried reforming countries from the outside, & they don't want to do it. We've tried hard power - military - in Afghanistan & Iraq (& Pakistan & on & on), & they don't want to do it. They get positively bloody-minded when we insist, & they're perfectly willing to kill/maim us, each other & whoever else gets in their way.

    I say - chuck it. We make sure our allies in Europe have access @ reasonable prices to oil/natgas, & set our sights on reaching/colonizing the moon. From there, we can see what it takes to establish a self-sufficient science/manufacturing facility. If we can get it to be self-sufficient, so much the better. @ some point, we'll be moving manufacturing & living space to the moon, nearby asteroids/meteors. It's time to get up there - the cultures here on Earth that reject modernity will never - in the mass - accept the World as it is now, without a lot of kicking & screaming.

    Let them have it. If there are cultures that want to live a barely modified hunter/gatherer way of life, or deny that anything has happened in the World since 1610CE, let them. There's lots of room in the solar system, lots of free energy to be had. There are lots of possible destinations out there, places where cultures on the make can find room for the play of ideas.

    I hear there's a great universe next door.
     
  10. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    I did not know this about you...and I am very glad you have told me.

    I have been in some of the most harsh conditions on Earth and of late either in the Hot and Sandy or Cold and Rocky and I REALLY HATE having to go to such places.

    You and I both know that the Technological ability of the United States makes colonization of the Moon and Mars possible as well their is in fact WATER on the Lunar Poles and water can be broken down chemically into Hydrogen and Oxygen and used for fuel or else we could use Nuclear Pulse Detonation Drives or Ion Drives.

    Mars has a MILLION TIMES or more water on it than the Moon and we could terra form Mars and this is within out technical abilities.

    I have knowledge of specifics of Ultra-High Tech. used in both wars that although never made public would astound people at what a high level of tech the U.S. is capable of....and the benefits of colonizing the Moon and Mars would jump start our economy.

    AboveAlpha...p.s....I never met a bug or snake I wouldn't eat.
     
  11. PTPLauthor

    PTPLauthor Banned

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    For clarification's sake, I am not opposed to Lunar colonization, however, I do not believe it is necessary to colonize the Moon as a stepping stone to Mars. In The Case for Mars, Robert Zubrin pointed out that the costs of using the Moon make it an unattractive proposition, and that going directly to Mars is sufficient enough.

    As for the benefits of technology pioneered for space travel, I am not unaware of the large amount of technology that has made life better here on Earth.
     
  12. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    It would be more cost effective in the long run for the Moon to be a launching site for interplanetary exploration as well in the long run the Moon has resources that can be used to construct ships and create fuel.

    AboveAlpha
     
  13. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes, we will have a moon base eventually, perhaps even Mars, but I'm thinking far future here. Maybe 300-3000 years from now.

    I'd like to see the viability of these colony plans run on the Earth first. The thing is that any resources we spend on Earth may be reclaimable. While a space colony is going to be a resource drain on the Earth, taking resources that could have been recycled, either through the tanks or from the natural biosphere, and worked back though the system.

    If they can run a successful base in the Sahara and/or on the Mongolian steppes, limiting available resources to a system that simulates shuttled in transport shipments, that results in a viable economic model then I'm all for it.

    I believe in extra caution, conservative baby steps, and over preparing for any endeavour. Let's see the colony drill for enough water for life in the Sahara and Mongolian steppes. And of course everyone must realize that even this is beyond easy compared to space, it's practically cheating on Earth. Not only is Earth a water planet, we are practically swimming in a water vapor atmosphere. On Earth water is practically recycled though the biosphere and continuously available. The same water that quenched the Dinosaurs is the same water that hydrates us today. In space any lost water doesn't go into the ground and comes back. It escapes into space and is lost forever.
     
  14. banchie

    banchie New Member

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    Unfortunately we do not have the brain powered educated people to do it. Of course we could bring in intelligent foreigners.
     
  15. banchie

    banchie New Member

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    The moon and mars have water available, no drilling necessary.

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=water-galore-on-moon-and-mars-2009-09


    And we have already done the biosphere.

    http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.town...3e-5e4229a1ca54/50badbc964e47.preview-620.jpg
     
  16. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    We currently have the technology to colonize the Moon and for the first 50 years we would require some supplies from earth but after that the Moon would be completely self sufficient....as there is water and minerals on the Moon in great amounts.

    Mars could be capable of having a 10 times denser atmosphere atter Human Terra Forming by 2180 as there is immense quantities of water on Mars.

    AboveAlpha
     
  17. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    The thing is that they have to do the industry. They can't just play in the greenhouse. The space colonists must start the mass production of water by about noon, 2nd day at the latest, or they can kiss their lives goodbye.

    And they must provide a viable economy. Let's see this economy take place ruffing it on the sands of the Sahara or on the middle of nowhere steppes of Mongolia.

    The thing is that remote cities have been tried out on Earth and have failed. I'm thinking about the ruins of Detroit in the USA, or any of countless old Soviet cities Where's the economic benefit? Show me the money. People are even less likely to thrive when they can't even get past the basics of life without fighting tooth and nail for every inch of necessary, vital resources.
     
  18. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    You are certainly wrong about that.

    Remember criteria for being a U.S. Citizen has NOTHING to do with Race, Creed, Color or former Nationality.

    The United States Covert Military R&D Divisions are between 50 to 100 years in advancement of any other country.

    I PERSONALLY KNOW THIS AS A FACT!

    AboveAlpha
     
  19. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Who would put the funds for terraforming Mars when no one can own it? Answer, no one.
     
  20. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    The Moon has been bombarded by massive Meteors and Asteroids for BILLIONS of years and extracting such things as IRIDIUM and other exotic elements would more than pay for any Lunar Colony.

    AboveAlpha

    - - - Updated - - -

    As I said....the United States must LEAD but that doesn't mean the effort will not be international.

    AboveAlpha
     
  21. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes, I feel ripped off that my entire childhood into my college course in the 2000s taught that the solar system is a desert.

    But, still, why are you pressing me? Are you opposed to demonstrating these technologies on the Earth first? I'd rather finish up the prototypes on Earth before these unknown technologies strand some people on a rock far from help.
     
  22. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    The Tech is really not complex and certainly is less complex than turning Shale into Oil.

    AboveAlpha
     
  23. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    But what tech? I don't know about it. There is a lot of concern just here on Earth about the lack of clean water for the future. If there are actually water technologies why is lost access to clean water supplies still an important political issue in the world that is causing tension between nations?
     
  24. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    The water issue is all Political BullS#!%.

    7/8ths of Planet Earth is WATER!

    We will NEVER run out of water and all one has to do to change salt water to fresh water is BOIL IT AND CAPTURE THE WATER VAPOR WHICH IS 100% FRESH WATER!!!!

    The stupidity of some people which Politicians are only too happy to exploit is MIND BOGGLING!!!!

    AboveAlpha
     
  25. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    NASA just released a video of what Mars looked like a Billion Years ago....that being a LUSH and WATER RICH Planet with Oceans and Lakes and Ponds everywhere.

    NASA also is positive that there exists MASSIVE LIQUID WATER RESERVES underground.

    AboveAlpha
     

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