http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfhjV5E0j1o Stalin killed more people and was more of a monstrous personality. I am appalled that the USA, the UK and the other allied powers allied with him against Hitler. But, people can be amazingly stupid. Some even believe the propaganda that the Nazis actually could have conquered the world Humans are flawed, funny creatures.
I agree that Stalin was more a monster than Hitler. Hitler just happened to have targeted specific groups while Stalin was more indiscriminate.
The interesting thread, my friend. Sounds like - 'which sort of sh^t was worse?' Btw some Russian people get off on nazism, racism, and Hitler lately. > The Moscow District Military Court has sentenced the leader of the banned Russian “National Socialist Society” and four other members to life in prison for a series of murders, assaults and an attempted act of sabotage. Six other neo-Nazis received sentences ranging from 10 to 23 years, among them a 24 year old girl who was sentenced to 19 years behind bars. Only one convict, Sergey Sviridov, received a suspended sentence because he had “actively cooperated with investigators”. The case of the neo-Nazi gang was heard in a military court because one of the convicts faced charges of desertion from the army. The verdict was read in the building of the Moscow City Court for security reasons. The court ruled that the convicts were guilty of 27 murders – mostly immigrants from Central Asia, but also one anti-fascist activist and one member from their own gang, who had been suspected of betraying his accomplices. The National-Socialist Society was founded in 2004 by individuals coming from preexisting nationalist movements – the Slavic Union and the Russian National Unity. Investigators claim that the president of the Russian NGO Fakel (“Torch” that provides aid to disabled persons, was one of the major sponsors of the organization. The society had branches in several regions of the Russian Federation as well as in Belarus, Canada, France and the UK. In February 2010, the Russian Supreme Court recognized the National Socialist Society as an extremist organization and banned it. However, police detained the members of the most radical branch of the society, the NSO-North, even earlier – back in 2008. Most of the murders were committed by the NSO-North members, not to mention a number of robberies and arsons they perpetuated as well as preparations for a terrorist attack on the Zagorsk hydropower plant in the Moscow Region. The leader of the group and its key members maintained their innocence even when the sentence was being pronounced. They said that their conscience was above the law and promised to get out of jail soon. The defense lawyers said they were going to appeal the sentence as it was extremely harsh. Besides, one of the lawyers said in an interview with Izvestia daily that his clients had been forced to confess to more crimes they had actually committed under duress and even torture. The trial was the major link in a long chain of proceedings directed against Russian radical nationalists that have been taking place in Russia over the past several years. The most recent event which grabbed headlines across the country was the May trial of two nationalists, a young man and a girl, who were each sentenced to prison for killing a lawyer and a journalist who had openly opposed the nationalist ideas. http://rt.com/politics/neo-nazi-gang-27-murders/ And are there any analogous criminal groups which get off on Stalin, communism in Germany?
Yeah, it's pretty sad seeing people trying to follow in the footsteps of Nazis and Communists today. To be clear, Hitler was no good guy and his regime was certainly quite monstrous, but... 7 million Ukrainians starved over the course of a single winter?? Hitler could only admire that achievement by the Man of Steel, I'm sure. And of course the list of crimes could go on and on, but I expect people reading this are already aware of them. I am absolutely amazed that the US and UK allied with Stalin against the Axis, especially since the millions of people killed in the USSR prior to WWII had already been publicised in those countries as well. The world stood by for Stalin's genocides. Then again, the world was also infected by a nasty eugenics movement during that time, wasn't it? Even the US had its vocal advocates for eugenic policies, and yes, some were implemented, though not by a dictatorial madman at the top with the result of thousands if not millions killed domestically, as happened in Europe and Russia. So, perhaps what was happening in Europe and the USSR wasn't so bad to the Americans and English of the period after all? Perhaps they just got angry at the militarism that threatened their own interests, and not so much at the massacres of innocents, who were considered "human garbage" and such.
Bolsheviks – communists pressed not only Ukrainians but also other nations - Russians, Tatars, Cossacks, Kazakhs, Kalmyks etc. In this sense they were true internationalists. And I expect that people reading this are already aware that Nazis and their co-belligerents killed over 27 000 000 Soviet people. Unfortunately Russian and German nations had some terrible decades in the first half of the 20th century. I mean those mass slaughters WWI and WWII, civil wars, disgusting regimes etc. It was just politics. Remember the Munich Agreement or the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact. Every side (country) had its own agenda and interests and wanted to screw other ones. As for America, maybe it is too cynical opinion but I think that this country had a proper strategy in the first half 20th century. While other European and Asiatic countries screwed each other in numerous wars and conflicts, became infected with communism, nazism etc US saved its people, developed its economy & military potential and took the lead. Well, while fools screw each other, clever people have a good chance to make money and get some other benefits. Good deal indeed.
Stalin killed far more Russians than the Germans did, in part because of the ridiculous way they were pushed into combat with no possibility for retreat. Stalin placed little value on human life (true enough of Hitler and other such psychopathic madmen as well, of course), and so when Russians weren't being liquidated by him they were being shoved in front of German machine guns and artillery... As for having smart national strategies to stand back while other countries destroy one another, that is a monstrous worldview. It permits uncounted innocents to die for the sake of one nation's (temporary) global power status. We get this from having psychopaths in power, and psychopaths do invariably end up gaining power.
That's right Stalin and Hitler placed little value on human life .But you think that Stalin was responsible for acts of every dull Soviet commander who placed little value on human life as well? . Unfortunately it's the real politics. In my view every person/family/state prefer their own interests. Frankly speaking I'd prefer that USSR stayed out of WWII and saved its people but... Anyway, your words say that you are a good man. Rgds.
Спасибо. I would certainly count myself among those who would place human life above all other interests, including national ones where possible. I've heard it said (seen it written, anyway): No Gods, No War. I think as long as the No Gods policy includes the gods of state nationalism and state worship, this would be true. I hate the notion of people targeting arbitrary groups of other people in some effort to make the world a better place. It's something I absolutely want to see all of humanity figure out and grow beyond. Part of this, of course, is acknowledging all of those past mistakes. Let no one defend monsters and their acts, past or present, for the sake of national pride or some such.
Am I fond of Hitler? Of course not. He had qualities that one might appreciate, such as his cleverness and shrewdness, but he still had the sad notion in his head -admittedly a common one during that historical period- that killing a bunch of people would make the world a better place. He was poisoned by radical ideas from youth and embraced them far too fervently, as some people are prone to do, and ended up creating a monstrous political movement full of monstrous men who agreed with him and others like him in all the wrong ways. That all being said, Stalin was still worse. Here, we're talking about someone who drew up lists of people to murder in his own country and demanded genocide by quotas.. Someone who starved an entire nation by taking away all of their agricultural produce to feed other people elsewhere. Someone who repurposed the Nazi concentration camps after WWII was concluded, and who did it all with western financing and support. Those were truly appalling times and appalling people and policies.
