Russian Flags Raised In Ukraine's South- How Far Will This Go?

Ukrainian flags are being burned, Russian flags are being raised, militias are being formed in the Crimea and elsewhere.

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As a new regime consolidated its grip over power in Kiev on Sunday, calls for secession in the pro-Russian south of Ukraine were growing louder.

At a protest attended by thousands in the port city of Sevastopol on Ukraine's Crimean peninsula, the crowd voted to establish a parallel administration and civil defense squads.

Demonstrators waved Russian flags – there was not a Ukrainian flag to be seen – and chanted "Russia, Russia, Russia" during the gathering.

Protesters also voted to set-up self-defence squads – a fledgling militia that would mirror those established in pro-European Western Ukraine last week after Yanukovych's authority crumbled and locals ransacked police stations.

Speakers said that in a similar demonstration earlier in the day in the regional capital of Simferopol about 5,000 had joined such squads.

The response was likely to be much greater in Sevastopol where up to 200,000 people could be counted on, said Dmitry Sinichkin, president of the local branch of the Night Wolves motorbike group.
Read on--

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/23/ukraine-crisis-secession-russian-crimea

 

The Crimea is an independent Republic and has been under self government since 1991 so stop attempting to make us thing that the Ukraine is somehow in danger of dissolving as a nation.

 

Crimea is more like a state within Ukrain. But regardless, why are they raising Russian flags in that "independant republic?"

 

I support Crimean secession from Ukraine.
Don't Crimeans have the same right to self determination so often blah blah here?
And if the loudest, most violent Crimeans feel closer to Russia - it is there right of self determination,
screw Ukraine, right?

Support the Crimean separatist.
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After thought. Crimea looks like its' the Florida of Ukraine, y'think the Ukrainian Jewish population is behind it?
We know Uks are not so nice to their Jewish population.


Moi
Some may say, "Why?".
I say, "Why not?"

No ​

 

You seem very confused. Maybe you should research a little.

 

They already have nominal self governance they are an autonomous republic under Ukrainian sovereignty.

 

Crimea is an autonomous parliamentary republic within Ukraine. In a 2001 census, 58.5% of its population was ethnically Russian. Crimea has never been politically independent since the middle ages. All that being so, I can't object if the Russians in Crimea want political union with Russia. Of course, Ukraine will have something to say. There are innumerable instances of minorities within larger countries wanting either independence or union with a parent country, but the larger countries may refuse to be diminished by being split. Prominent examples include Quebec, Northern Ireland, Chechnya, Tibet and East Turkestan, and of course the Confederacy. I hope the Ukraine, at last emerging from the grip of Russia's empire, is not weakened by Crimea. Russia may choose spite by encouraging Crimean succession.

 

According to our media, there are no Nazis or Jihadist Tartars from Syria in Kiev, it's the police that are rotten.

Most of the people in the Crimea are Russian and Putin, (never to be outsmarted), has been giving them Russian citizenship for years now. Well it didn't belong to Ukraine anyway, so he has every right to take it back. Let's see now what's going to happen in the Eastern part of Ukraine. They are Russians too and they have favorable trade agreements with Moscow...something which can't be continued if Ukraine signs with the E.U.

Putin did call back his ambassador, does that mean that Russia has broken its diplomatic relations with Ukraine? He must be furious because he gave them two billion dollars. But then again Ukraine owes Russia one and a half billion for gas. Oh well, it's only billions.

Putin was also told by the 'honest' West, that elections would be held in December, and now they decided to hold them in May. I read in a foreign source that the Russian tanks are lined up along the Ukrainian border, maybe to protect the Russians from the ravaging Nazis...oh that's right, there are no Nazis in Ukraine. I know that a Russian monastery in Kiev was taken over forcefully, and they were told they had to leave the Moscow Patriarchate.

Now for the best part. The IMF is willing to loan Ukraine twenty billion so it won't default but one of the stipulations is a seventy percent cut in medical care, and the other is they have to pay forty percent more for gas. Lovely Germany there with it's austerity, austerity, austerity. This is why Yukunovich refused to sign and turned to Russia. Marcus was right though, Germany will now own all of Europe. ..except of course Russia, and its freaking Merkel out.

Also who will the E.U. sign with, the government there is illegal? But then again maybe they'll ask Obama to, since he's above the law...like God.

 

Provide a scrap of evidence that the protests were anything but peaceful until the state sent in the police to disperse them by force on November 30th 2013.

What would prevent the autonomous republic of the Crimea from maintaining economic ties with Russia if the Ukraine joins the EU?

 

you are of course aware of the circumstances that the year 1991 events took place?.. it was the unlawful act of destruction of the USSR made on behalf of the dastardly West and its greedy tycoons.

 

The Crimea is also the home of Russia's Black Sea fleet. Sevastopol is about as Russian as Moscow is. The VAST majority of the Crimea's economy is oriented around the Fleet and it's a highly "Russified" area. I can't remember which Soviet leader did it, but the Soviets moved out massive numbers of Crimeans (esp. Jews) out of that area and moved in very loyal Soviet citizens. Since then, the Crimea has always been a highly pro-Soviet area. You can still find statues of Stalin and Lenin in most city parks, something that has become almost non-existent in most of the former CCCP nations.

 

Russia Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev questioned the legitimacy of the new Ukrainian authorities on Monday and alleged that the new regime in Ukraine have come to power as a result of "armed mutiny."

He lashed out at what he called the European Union's recognition of the new authorities as an "aberration of consciousness." He said Russia would be ready to resume relations with Ukraine once it sees a "normal, modern government based on laws and constitution of Ukraine."

"If you consider Kalashnikov-toting people in black masks who are roaming Kiev to be the government, then it will be hard for us to work with that government," he said.

He said Russia's decision to recall its ambassador in Kiev for consultations meant that "there is a threat for our interests, and for life and health of our people in the embassy."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/02/24/ukraine-yanukovych-arrest-warrant/5772717/

I get the impression there are only a comparatively few pro-Russian Ukrainians who would go as far as seceding from the Ukraine, but if the Russians try to rescue something from the disaster by supporting them militarily (potentially starting another civil war which would allow the Russians to re-install their puppet President), things really will get out of hand.

Apparently Jeanette is in favor of thousands of dead to gain a situation benefitting the Russians rather than a hundred dead to gain a situation benefitting the West.

 

This.

Ieltsin and Gorbatchev are nothing but traitors.


BTW: Crimea was "donated" to Ukraine by Krueschev

 

lol the Soviet Union dissolved of its own accord, it fell under the weight of its own massive economic failure which resulted in people literally wiping their asses with the ruble because it was worth less than toilet paper.

 

I am looking at the reality of the situation and what we did to Syria as our government controlled media spitted out its lies, and what we are now doing to Ukraine. These hoodlums in Kiev, as well as the protesters who followed them were coming in from the Western part, a part which was historically close to Poland. If you knew anything about history in that part of the world you would have known that. The Eastern half and the Southern part has been historically close to Russia and they are the ones who voted for Yakunovich.

As for benefitting the West, there is no benefit other than keeping Ukraine from joining with Russia. The reason Yakunovich got fed up with the E.U. and backed out of the agreement with the E.U., is because a part of it was to raise gas prices forty percent, and this in a poor country where the people can't pay for their heating now, and also to cut medical expenses seventy percent.

What the Ukrainian people are going to suffer is going to be a lot worse than what the Greeks have been suffering for the past five years under the IMF. At least the Greek winter lasts only three months at the most, but in Ukraine they will freeze. In the mean time the Eastern part of Ukraine is dependent on its favorable trade agreements with Russia, and those agreements will have to be stopped if the country joins the E.U. There is no way Putin will allow the E.U. products enter Russia under those agreements. Yakunovich asked the E.U. if they would cover the losses and they said no.

Russia in contrast, was willing to give Ukraine money to help it out and also to cut its gas prices thirty percent, so what Germany and the West did was manipulate the historical distrust and hatreds that exists in the Western part of Ukraine and have them overthrow the legally elected government...and then they have the audacity to call it democracy. You figure!

 

Russia did this when they imposed economic sanctions against the Ukraine for attempting to join the EU prompting the government to back out of the agreement which in turn prompted the protests.

This is a flat out lie, he backed out because in August of 2013 Russia changed its customs regulations on imports from the Ukraine blocking all imports coming from the Ukraine. It was Russia's trade war which prompted all of this. The EU agreement had nothing to do with the proposed budget cuts, you are just making things up out of whole cloth, those cuts were tied to the conditions of an IMF loan not entry into the EU so save your propaganda.

 

Or maybe it could be as simple as the Ukrainians remembering what it was like to live under the iron rule of the USSR before they were liberated in 1989 and do not wish to go back to those times again. You might want to give more people credit for fighting for what they want. If Putin sent agents here to stir up unrest to get Americans to overthrow our government in favor of his Americans would tear him a new ********.

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Ukrainians remember what Russia did to Georgia and they want know part of it. Bye bye commies. Hello democracy and free world trade.

 

They were favorable trade treaties which Russia has with Ukraine. Everyone including nations, have a right to withdraw their favors whenever they want to. It was a sample of what was going to happen when they signed the Treaty with the E.U. Wasn't it better for them to know before hand than afterwards?. Did the E.U. really expect Russia to have E.U. products coming into Russia under the favorable treaties it had with Ukraine? Would the U.S. or Germany allow such a thing?

Ukraine also needed a loan desperately to carry it over, and to join the E.U. it would have to get it from the IMF. Their demands were to raise gas prices forty percent in a nation with poor people and a cold climate, as well as to cut medical expenses seventy percent. This is what freaked Yakunovich out, because he knew that if he had these hardships imposed on the Ukrainians in addition to the hardships they suffer now, that there was no way they would re-elect him. Well the Ukrainians who wanted the E.U. can now basque in it to keep themselves warm.

As for the protesters, they came from the Western part and the hatreds go back four and five hundred years. You know nothing about the history in that part of the world. It was these historical hatreds and distrust that were being manipulated by Germany, Poland and the others. If you don't believe me, then why doesn't the same hatreds towards Russia exist in the Eastern part of Ukraine?

 

They didn't withdrawal from favorable trade relations they imposed an embargo, that is economic warfare anyway you slice it. And yes why would the Russian people not want European made products? Yes the U.S. and Germany allow products from all over the world including China, it is good for American consumers and their pocket books.

They did not need to accept the loan or the conditions of the loan in order to join the EU the two were not tied to one another; furthermore, the IMF stipulations were for a gradual shift not a one shot tariff increase and it proposed safeguards to protect those below the poverty line from any increases in gas prices. Please provide your source which states that they stipulated cutting the subsidization of health care by 70%.

Because Russia ethnically cleansed and colonized the Eastern Part of the Ukraine with ethnic Russians under the Soviet Union. The protests occurred because the majority of the Ukrainian people support entrance into the EU.

 

Oh, I didn't realize all those people running into Kiev from Poland, Lithuania and Germany, as well as McCain, Nuland, etc., were Putin agents. My mistake I guess?
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Oh, and here I thought the Soviet Union had dissolved and communism was over with. If it didn't dissolve, then how did the American professors end up with so much of Russia's wealth? And here I thought they stole the money when they helped Russia change from a communist system to a free market one?

You're also telling me now that the people in S. Ossetia and Abhazia didn't want Russia to help them get their independence? I guess Russia made a mistake then. Maybe Putin thought that if Clinton was so kind as to help Kosovo free itself from Serbia, that he would show the same kindness are free Abhazia and S. Ossetia from Georgia. Thanks for telling me. :

 

Oh so then the Crimea didn't become Russian under Catherine the Great? Thanks for telling me :: Actually it was the Tatars and Greeks Stalin moved out. Two hundred thousand Tatars were moved during WWII because they were Muslims and leaned towards Hitler, therefore they couldn't be trusted. And sixty thousand Greeks were moved because they are independent and refused to collectivize.

 

I love Lavrov. This is the response Russia's Foreign Minister Lavrov gave to the National Security Advisor Rice after she said it would be a grave mistake for Russia to use force in Ukraine.

“We expect that the national security adviser will give the same advice to the US leadership on the mistaken path of force, should he decide to conduct a new intervention.”

 

might well say when you get robbed and beaten up that it happened of your 'own accord' eh.

that's a shameless lie. USSR was an economic success, this is why the West wouldn't let it be, for if USSR was a failure, it would have been allowed to scrape along like South America these days.

 

This is the latest from the Israeli Debkafile:

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Units of the Russian forces which secured the Olympic Winter Games ending in Sochi Sunday were flown and shipped Monday, Feb. 24 to Russian bases at the Ukrainian Crimean port of Sevastopol, debkafile reports, as Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev refused to recognize the new authorities in Kiev. Giant Russian Air Force transports and rapid deployment forces were placed on alert at the Rostov on-Don base east of the pro-Russian southeastern Ukrainian town of Donetsk. Military movements were also seen in Belgorod opposite the Ukraine border.

Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev said Monday: “Today I see no legitimate Ukrainian partners for a dialogue. If people crossing Kyiv in black masks and Kalashnikov rifles are considered a government, it will be difficult for us to work with such a government," he said, calling it “the result of a mutiny.”

The prime minister spoke of a “real threat to our interests, and to our citizens’ lives and health.”

http://www.debka.com/

 

They were not robbed and beaten up, their decades of state planning led to stagflation and eventually hyperinflation making their currency literally worth less than toilet paper it, also, led to extreme shortages with people waiting in lines in the streets for basic consumer products.

You are living in a dream world, your laughable claims are so far from reality that it's funny.

Economic collapse of Soviet Communism

During the 1980s, the Eastern Bloc, which relied on a stagnant form of planned economy, experienced a decade-long period of stagflation, and eventual collapse from which it did not recover, culminating with revolutions and the fall of communist regimes throughout Central and Eastern Europe and eventually in the Soviet Union. The process was accompanied by a gradual but important easing of restrictions on economic and political behaviour in the late 1980s, including the satellite states.

The collapse in the USSR was characterized by an increase in the death rate, especially by men over 50, with alcoholism a major cause. There was also an increase in violent crime and murder.[1] The Russian population peaked in the 1990s and is lower today than two decades ago, as the demographics of Russia show.

A firsthand account of conditions during the economic collapse was told by Dmitry Orlov, a former USSR citizen who became a US citizen but returned to Russia for a time during the crisis.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_collapse#Economic_collapse_of_Soviet_Communism