The World Needs Good Leadership From The U.S. President On The Ukraine Issue!

Discussion in 'Russia & Eastern Europe' started by JimfromPennsylvania, Mar 31, 2014.

  1. JimfromPennsylvania

    JimfromPennsylvania Active Member Past Donor

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    Although some of the Russian troops pulled-back today the world has been greatly concerned that the massing of Russian troops along Ukraine's eastern border means that the Russian military will invade and take over the eastern part of Ukraine, the heavily ethnic Russian part of Ukraine. President Obama's recognition that this would be an egregious wrong on Russia's part is correct but his response that Russia faces only economic and non-military sanctions over this is an egregiously incorrect response from an American President!

    The Russian military invading eastern or southern Ukraine is off-the-charts wrong behavior it is an extreme and intolerable evil because the world is done with one sovereign country militarily invading and taking over another country in Europe; the world fought two world wars and a terrible cold war over this behavior in the last century and the human suffering and destruction is too great it is too much for the human race to bear. This is a line that the world cannot accept being crossed whether it is Vladimir Putin or some other country's leader doing the crossing; Barrack Obama as President of the United States, a good country and the most powerful country on the planet, has the duty of responsibly defending this line so when the moral balancing test triggered by this issue calls for using an asset of America to defend this line it must be used if needed and using America's air power to repel and reverse such an invasion passes this test. The Ukrainian people have the right of self-defense and any country can help a people exercise such right just like if a person was walking down the street and saw one person assaulting another person the rescuing person could use force against the aggressor to stop the aggressor from assaulting the victim. If the Russian Army invades Ukraine the Ukrainian people based on the right of self defense have the right to destroy the Russian invasion forces, the American air force acting as their proxy on this effort would have the same moral defense. America's air power would make a critical difference in repelling such an invasion there is no surprise here U.S. satellites have viewed Russian tanks and trucks massing near Ukraine's eastern border eastern Ukraine's terrain is largely open country when those Russian tank and truck columns cross the Ukrainian border into Ukraine, the American military could know it, and they would be wide open targets for U.S. to take out with their rockets, this action would be a replay of US pilots against Saddam Hussein tank units in Kuwait during the first Gulf War - the tank columns were decimated by America's air power! On the other side of the balancing equation, the only important real harm America would incur is the loss of some U.S. pilots, this negative doesn't outweigh the crucially important standard America would be upholding is that no more military invasions in Europe - upholding this standard will save at least hundreds of thousands of human lives as future centuries unfold and this can be readily done as NATO naturally expands over time! Critics may say well the world didn't militarily do anything about the Russian military invasion of Georgia so what standard are you talking about; first, when it occurred the Russian government's statements gave the indication it was not a permanent situation and secondly, these are two small areas of land it seems very difficult to believe that Russia will permanently damage its reputation over a minor land dispute which is what this entails. The American public may ask why should America get involved in Ukraine it is an old Soviet Union bloc country it is a poor country who cares well besides the great evil involved here in violating the precious standard for World Peace that one country militarily invading another country in Europe is not tolerated there is another important factor that combined with all the other factors on this matter provides a compelling call for America to get involved back when the Soviet Union came apart in the 1980's and 1990's the country of Ukraine had the third largest nuclear weapons arsenal in the world the United States in 1994 with Britain and Russia made a security agreement with Ukraine where Ukraine agreed to give up this nuclear arsenal and although the terms of the agreement were hollow in terms of providing security assistance for Ukraine if their sovereignty was violated the spirit of the agreement places a moral obligation on the U.S. to help the Ukrainian people in this area and that is what the Ukrainian people believe today and a good country would see it the way the Ukrainians see it and help them with this threat to their sovereignty!


    President Barack Obama on his recent trip to Europe has said that there is no military solution to the crisis of the Ukraine mainland being invaded by Russia only a diplomatic and sanctions solution. It is only in the world of Mr. Obama's head that there is such limited options in the real world America holds another solution the use of America's military air power (as outlined above) this solution would solve the crisis by bringing about a defeat of a Russian military invasion. Also, to think that there exists a good sanctions solutions against Russia for a Russian invasion of mainland Ukraine is epically foolish. I have no doubt President Obama's administration would be able to pull off a European agreement on extremely biting sanctions against Russia if this invasion occurred but would this be good for the world absolutely no!. Europe's economy is very weak and no economic region throughout the world is strong even the U.S.'s and there exists no one that can make-up for the loss of Russia's role if Europe gets into a biting sanctions contest with Russia they lose big-time even if they win and the world could be playing with a catastrophic effect here. Several European countries have very serious sovereign debt problems if their economies drop significantly because of a sanctions confrontation with Russia they will not have the tax revenue to pay this debt and they would be facing default and skyrocketing interest rates, there could be a replay of the last three years, with this time around countries deciding the medicine of cutting gov't spending is too hard resulting in voluntarily and involuntarily these countries dropping the euro currency resulting in almost certain massive sovereign debt defaults causing a significant world-wide recession! The Obama administration has got to forget this stupid sanctions options and fulfill its role in the world and step-up like the super-power it is and solve this Ukrainian crisis on its own by dropping the gigantic military hammer America has in its air power on Russia if it invades mainland Ukraine! Let there be no confusion that if Russia invades mainland Ukraine and the Obama administration does not use America's air power to help the Ukrainians repel this invasion and the invasion succeeds President Barack Obama will be held personally morally responsible and him and his administration will experience severe consequences over it!



    If President Barack Obama wants to do everything he can to avoid the loss of American armed servicemen's lives militarily defending Ukraine sovereignty there is a way he might be able to get away with it. Commit to use America's air drones to do the bombing runs against the invading Russian troops. I doubt America at the current time America has enough drones in numbers to do the "invasion repelling" job in Ukraine but the President could lessen the job the drones need to do by empowering the Ukrainian army, reserves and militias to take out lots of the Russian invasion force. Tell Russian President Vladimir Putin he has three weeks to remove this invasion threat on Ukraine he must completely reverse the seen military build-up on Ukrainian border in this time frame if he refuses compliance the following will take place. America will begin immediately and continue as fast as America can to deliver cargo planes to Ukraine full with: man-pads that Ukranian fighters can use to take out Russian planes, helicopters and tanks; howitzers and mortars and stockpiles of their shells so Ukrainian forces can rain down shells on Russian invasion forces; crates of plastic explosives so the Ukrainian people can blow every bridge and make every road in eastern Ukraine unusable for invading Russian tank, troop carrier and truck convoys and enough rifles, bullets and hand grenades to make every Ukrainian citizen in eastern Ukraine a well-armed anti-Russian partisan if they wish to be!


    I am frankly a little disappointed that countries throughout the world haven't used a little more brain power and aggressiveness toward Russia over its unlawful taking of Crimea province from Ukraine. Russia's claim of justification for this taking is completely illegitimate. The only people that have real legitimacy to decide the fate of Crimea is the indigenous people to Crimea the Tatars and they boycotted this month's referendum. It is fair to say that Russia is the last country in the world that has any sovereignty claim on Crimea, its prior leader Stalin practically tried to commit genocide on Crimean Tatars relocating them out of Crimea where half of them died, Russia's past ethnic cleansings against the Crimean Tatars permanently waives any sovereign claims Russia has on Crimea. From a practical standpoint if Russia's black sea fleet didn't have as its main naval base the base at Sevastopol, Crimea a major reason for Russia to be so interested in having Crimea be part of Russia would be gone. This writer has no knowledge on the topography of the Black Sea and it isn't needed to speak out on the right thing here which is Russia should build a port for their Black Sea fleet on their border of the Black Sea if the depth of sea where the port would be located isn't deep enough use explosives and dredging to make it deep enough. The Russian Navy is the key issue on Russia's aggression in Crimea and that is where the world's response should be focused on to reverse this aggression. The world should agree no Russian Navy ship can use any of their ports while Russia maintains control over Crimea, a Russian naval ship shouldn't even be able to get a pot of coffee in a foreign port. No country should enter into any "future" contracts to sell Russia anything that will be used for their Navy and no country should enter any into any contract to buy any ship or naval equipment from Russia or a Russian company as long as this condition exists. The penalty should just be limited to the nature of Russia's navy, don't pursue the problematic pursuits like stopping purchases of Russian helicopters for the Afghanistan military, etc., it is unwise. There is one final penalty the world should inflict on Russia to maintain a continual pressure on Russia to release control of Crimea. No person of Russian citizenship should be permitted to fly out of Crimea or into Crimea from any foreign country and no person of Russian citizenship should be permitted to pass from the land of Crimea into the balance of Ukraine and of course citizens of Crimea would be able to continue to get Ukrainian passports so they would not be subject to this problem. Following such guidance would result in the world especially European Union countries not implementing any additional penalties that would significantly hurt their economies which would be counter-productive. This action coupled with the call of many experts which is the best way to get Crimea returned to Ukraine is help Ukraine become a prosperous, non-corrupt, democratic and good country which will move Crimeans to say to themselves what are we doing being part of the totalitarian Russia where we live under oppression and poverty let's return to Ukraine and have a good future!
     
  2. Flemish Conservative

    Flemish Conservative New Member

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    What the world needs from the current US President is that he starts to think a bit before he starts pontificating about all sorts of things and for him to stay out of an inter-ukrainian and Ukrainian-Russian conflict.
     
  3. olegp

    olegp Member

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    you know nothing about the situation - most of the people of the South-East of Ukraine against the Metropolis, Kiev, and not against Russia
     
  4. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

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    I think that the author of this wall of text is a good person. He supports everything good and rejects everything evil. But unfortunately he as 99.9% of americans never checks the information that floods ears and brains.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...location-the-more-they-want-u-s-to-intervene/

    "The less Americans know about Ukraine’s location, the more they want U.S. to intervene"

    This is the key to unlock the world for americans and identify their true self in the history. That is not that scaring and not that pleasant. But it needs to be done by americans before they need to pay off their ignorance.
     
  5. olegp

    olegp Member

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  6. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

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    America leadin' the way...
    :salute:
    US forces take lead in NATO’s response to Ukraine crisis
    April 24, 2014 — The U.S. is so far providing more resources to shoring up eastern European allies made nervous by a newly assertive Russia than other NATO members, again testing the alliance that has struggled throughout the war in Afghanistan.
     
  7. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

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    What Ukraine really needs is for their own politicians to show up to vote against corruption...
    :steamed:
    Poll: Ukrainians Unhappy About Corruption, Incomplete Reforms
    October 13, 2015 - Ukrainians are unhappy with their current government. In a recent poll conducted in Ukraine, only 7 percent of the respondents said they felt the fight against corruption was yielding any results, and only 6 percent saw successful reforms in the legal and law enforcement spheres.
     
  8. fluer

    fluer New Member

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    sorry I ve red only till the words "US is a good country"... and such words show an average reality of US citizens:) it is too naive for serious answer...
     
  9. lsz91

    lsz91 New Member

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    No, its just America (not the people of America), but America who is hungry for action. The US needs a large villain while it affects change in its favor, change in some parts of the world. Change, change just because someone said so, sad, just sad.
     
  10. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    The so called "Ukrainian crisis" is totally and enitrely engineered by the West to (1) gain control over navy base at Crimean peninsula and (2)provoke Russia so that "West" can justify an occupation of Ukraine.

    Ianukovitz was democratically elected president. But, US and EU could of course not accept a pro-Russian regime because of no reason at all. US pushed in billions of dollars in Ukraine to start an anti-Ianukovits and pro-EU protest in Kiev. This has even been admitted by Victoria Nuland: "We have invested more than 5 billion dollars to assist Ukraine in these and other goals that will ensure a secure, democratic and prosperous Ukraine." Ianukovits was forced to resignation and exile and US were now free to enter Ukraine and aggress the Russian border and also, annex Crimea.

    However, Crimea has always had a large Russian majority. Eastern Ukraine likewise. These people identify themselves as Russian and they speak Russian too. Furthermore, there was a referrendum held at Crimea where well over 90% voted "yes" to become part of Russia. Russia's entrence(or "annexation" lol, as West depicts it as) was thus fully justified and rational- Why would Russia want to risk the lives of their people and their terriotory by letting it fall under enemy control? Important to remember is that Crimea was given to Ukraine as a gift and was never really a part of Ukraine "for real".

    US wanted to justify an annxation of Ukraine. For this they had to provoke Russia to make Russia look like the bad guys so an American involvement would be regarded as benevolent. Disgusting liberalist agenda is what it is.

    This conflict is totally unnecessary.

    NATO, US and EU have yet another time managed to destroy a country and start a wat. :clapping: :cheerleader:
     

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