What do Germans think about their astronomical subsidies to Greece?

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite2_1_26/09/2013_520475

To be fair, not all subsidies that goes to the nation of slobs are from Germany, but Germany sure shoulders a great part, so, what do you German folks here in this forum think?

I've heard that some Greeks of their early twenties on welfare live on beach houses idling around all day while their counterparts in Germany struggle to pay the bills.

But I knew I could be wrong... German could be so prosperous and affluent that they just couldn't find a better way to spend all their money.

 

No replies? I knew Germans are just too rich.

 

I suspect the German taxpayers resent moochers as much as American taxpayers resent moochers.

But Germans do get a benefit from carrying Greek (and other) moochers. The euro keeps German stuff reasonably priced in most countries. If the Germans quit subsidizing Greece and the other moochers, the euro would collapse and everyone would have to go back to drachma and deutschmarks. The mark would be so strong against the drachma (and most other currencies) that nobody in the other countries could afford German-made stuff. The Germans (like the Chinese) have a heavily export-driven economy. If German stuff got proced out of foreign markets, the export-driven German economy would hit a brick wall.

So the German taxpayers have a dilemma. Carry the moochers or go broke yourself.

 

Well I never thought it that way. You got a point there. How did German get into this mess?
Your point is particularly valid since the lower-end of the market was flooded with made in China goods. German products have a reputation of being high-quality and pricey.

 

slobs? isn't that a little harsh?

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That hardly adds up.

Someone please debunk this

 

Not at all. Greeks works 6.5 hours a day on average. Some public sector workers work 3 days a week and enjoys 3 months' vacation.

That, and the only marxist clown in this forum is a Greek. Ironic isn't it?

 

Lol, Germany is trying to prop Greece up because they need it for their exports.

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Hours per day is not the only quantifier of work. Besides, the capitalists determine work in Greece. Not the people.

 

agree there with Burz, because that doesn't add up - Germany was doing fine before the EU took in Greece/Euro

Germany could still export well without Greece

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so, as far as I can see, Greece was ticking along ok until the Euro came to the country, - so why did they take it onboard anyway? surely they could have seen this disaster coming?

 

I am sure that there were people in positions of authority that did.

 

so another country sold out by its neo-lib leaders, but it seems that the people were living beyond their means as well.

So why are they complaining about it now - you live on credit, you pay later, that seems about right.

Mutmekep - are you around, what are your thoughts here?

 

Greece has some of the highest inequality in Europe. The people don't decide their general usage of debt, economic conditions decide that. Greeks were not using debt because they were splurging like Americans (they weren't).

 

so it's their own fault then, by the sounds of it.

 

No, the Greek people didn't choose any of this.

 

Funny topic, till yet not a single € was going from germany to greece. What we gave is guarantees. Germany even earns money with this. Greece pays an interest rate.

We live in a globalized world and the EU is the worlds greatest economic power and germany rules the EU. Germany holds more power over europe today than ever before because of this politics. I see that very positive. Beside that, we talk about marginal sums here. Face it, the entire greek economy is smaller than that of a single german city like Stuttgart. Its peanuts for us.

Germany by far is the strongest and most profitable economy in the western world and we play our cards well so far. We make no new debt. Our nations runs on a profit. Our economy is so strong, that we have negative interest rates. That means investors pay us money so we take their money.

It has a reason why Chancellor Merkel is called the empress of Europe. The Europe of the 21st century is the german Europe. And so far i like it that way. The way we do business now is very straight forward. Not much lamenting anymore.

 

Markus - please can you debunk the ridiculous claim that another poster made, saying that 'Germany needs Greece to drive its export markets' ie: the price of exports would be too high if you still used the D-mark

thanks

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ok, they didn't exactly choose it but how come they blame all their elected leaders, when many of the people were spending too much, living off credit, not working many hrs etc... (if that is correct)

 

I never said they need it to drive their export markets. But the deal they have with Greece is profitable. I.E. Germany is going to export. They're just subsidizing their own profit.

It's a myth that the Greeks work low hours.

 

no, no, Burz, I was referring to poster Taxcutter here:

he said this, and it needs debunking by someone with sound international finance knowledge

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ok, that may well be true, I just don't know too much about this topic

so is it all one big neo-lib lie?

 

Germany would have to change it's economic functions if it had to export less, but the most you could say is that they would have less profit. Germany has run autarchical models before.

I call them psychopaths personally.

 

If Greece defaults, it's the people who hold Greek Euro denominated bonds who take the hit.
And the biggest holder of Greek bonds is German Banks.
So German taxpayers are propping up German Banks.
Feel better......

 

I think they should support Greece and any other EU country that needs it. They started 2 World Wars in less than 50 years that cost well over 100 million lives....let 'em pay and pay.

 

Taxcutter says:
German stuff would be even pricier if the German government didn't subsidize exports. Who could buy a $100,000 'C'-class Benz?

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Taxcutter asks:
Who would buy a $100,000 'C'-class Mercedes?

 

That's because there is deep crisis in greece, no work, low wages, corruption and a lot of debt to pay. High taxes also prevent people from free enterprise, since it would surely lead to failure because of the disproportion between taxes to pay and gain from work. If we europeans are supposed to be a nation the least we can do is help each other, to prevent the single parts to collapse, which would anyway impact the other countries of the union as well. You let greece fail, then do not expect greeks to buy german products anymore, plus the bad image you would made out of you throughout the world. If there must be an european union then you cannot let the single parts fall apart, what kind of union would be that lol? People would say (*)(*)(*)(*) the EU and everything falls down like a paper giant.

 

The fact of the matter is that Greece really doesn't have a functioning economy anymore. It would have been better for everyone to let Greece exit the Euro (and probably the EU) so it could have devalued in an orderly fashion. Now it will be stuck with a crippling debt for many decades.

 

Why? Because the old world — europe thinks nothing like the US. Europeans have this strong horde, hive mentality as oppose to most US citizens that cherish individuality. Which BTW, is despised by US liberals.

Europeans think United are always stronger, they think a collective is
always superior than creative, resourceful ingenious individuals.

UK still has some of those proud Anglo-Saxon traditions (Adam Smith, John Locke anyone?) so even they are pretty far on the left and are very close to being an airstrip one, they weren't stupid enough to join the EU (completely).

 

I didn't read the next page yet but I can guess this is what he thinks:
1, fk neo-liberal, laissez faire, working-class vampiring politicians of Greece.
2, fk neo-liberal, laissez faire, working-class vampiring politicians of EU.
3, fk neo-liberal, laissez faire, working-class vampiring politicians of American.
4, fk neo-liberal, laissez faire, working-class vampiring politicians of the World.