This is a rerun of: Obama rejects Palestinian statehood bid at UN. Promises a Veto [video=youtube_share;efH4OlpyWvo]http://youtu.be/efH4OlpyWvo[/video] Same argument: "No shortcut to peace": I cringe when the "free press" uses the term "peace process" when there has never been a peace process. They call it a peace process because the US always seeks peace by definition.
This is news? America knee-jerks a veto anytime it doesn't want to upset its little parasitic 'ally' in the Middle East. Screw justice, right? The problem Obama has in this case is that America can't do a damn thing but whine if the UN secures formal statehood for the Palestinian people.
Why would Israel want peace? Their excuse for conquering more land is that they haven't reached a deal yet. This is clearly done on purpose. This "peace process" is all just smoke and mirrors distraction decoy and their way to justify outrages against law and human rights. We don't need ambassadors, we don't need talks, what we need is for Israel to get the (*)(*)(*)(*) off that land and stop the atrocities.
Israel is pursuing plans to built so-called Greater Israel. Their TV preachers in USA show even maps of the Greater Israel, including some territories of Arabia, Iraq and Egypt... And they want to conquer more under umbrella of USA or waiting until we "spread democracy" in neighboring countries.
Rather than to respond at length to your twisted falsehood, rehashed again for the umpteenth time, permit me to introduce to you Mod Edit ~ Don't make it personal ... Mr Moshe Feiglin that is depicting and reflecting my own wishes exactly... Moshe Feiglin: How I would Deal with current Diplomatic Imbroglio if I were PM ~By Moshe Feiglin In an interview on Israel’s Channel 2, the broadcaster asked Moshe Feiglin what he would do today if he were PM. Feiglin answered that by turning to the UN, Abu Mazen has essentially declared the nullification of the Oslo Accords. Moshe Feiglin would jump at the opportunity to formally announce the end of the cursed Oslo Accords and declare absolute Israeli sovereignty over all of Judea and Samaria. The Arabs living there could enjoy the same status afforded to the Arabs living in East Jerusalem. “We are being dragged into impossible dilemmas because of the Oslo Accords, in which Israel essentially recognized the ‘Palestinians’ as the just side of the equation, with Israel being some sort of foreign occupying force,” said Feiglin. “This has slowly but surely brought about the erosion of our sovereignty to the point where we are willing to release hundreds of murderers and their accomplices back onto our streets, among Oslo’s many other ills.” “Currently, the same Oslo mentality has dragged Jonathan Pollard into this bubbling cauldron as a bargaining chip,” Feiglin continued. “Pollard, a true Israeli hero and man of principle must be disconnected from all other issues. If we would believe in our own justice and right to the Land of Israel, Jonathan Pollard would have been here years ago. Remember, tens of US spies – who have done real damage to Israel – are at work in our country at any given time. We could quietly get Pollard back with no further ado – if we would believe in our own rights and respect ourselves,” Feiglin hinted. ***Moshe Zalman Feiglin (Hebrew: משה פייגלין‎, born 31 July 1962) is an Israeli politician,Knesset Member, and head of the Manhigut Yehudit ("Jewish Leadership") faction of Israel's governing Likud party. Feiglin won a seat in the Israeli Knesset for the first time in elections held January 22, 2013. Feiglin advocates predicating Israeli policy on three principles: Liberty, Jewish Identity and restoring Meaning into Israeli life
I am sure you feel as strongly about the atrocities commited daily in the Arab world and speak out against them as frequently.
I condemn all abuses against human rights. Of course. Why just today I posted about horrific genocide in Syria and the terrorist scum behind it. Not even ten minutes ago I posted how King Fritzl Abdullah of Saudi Arabia even imprisons and tortures his own daughters. Instead of trying to paint me the hypocrite and/or partisan hack I'm not, as you clearly have no idea what my stances even are, why don't you try addressing the point of mine when you quote it? You're supposed to discuss the issue, not the poster. Why don't you try?
Obama is wrong like usual.. There is indeed a shortcut to peace. Israel just need to leave and it's done. The most tragic part about this, is the USA helps dictators and such gain their own country, or take over soeverighn countries. They don't mind the new Alqaedastan country they helped build in North Syria, and they can even supply it weapons and cash, but hell forbid the Palestinians live in a state. Israel do everything to make sure Palestine never becomes a state, (because if it were a state then it makes it harder for the rest of the world to ignore)...but they INSIST that Palestinians recognize Israel, and as a Jewish state! Hypocritical crybabies!
Maybe I will. What deterrant other then taking more land does Israel have? Against a barbarous group that doesn't care if their own people die? Should they sit their and bleed or make such incursions hurt? - - - Updated - - - They have left areas in the past and it wasnt done the "Palestinians" wanted more and will keep firing rockets to get it. Why should Israel capitulate first? Has the PLO, Hamas or Hezbollah shown any credibility that they will stop?
Thank you for reverting to the topic. They already make their incursions hurt. There's like millions there. You're bound to have random ones shoot rockets in retaliation, which I don't condone, but that's a result of the occupation. Israel could stop occupying and that would work. But they don't want to. As for the population there, they like everybody else, they do mourn death all the same. If you want to see what barbarous thugs have a look at Syria. Also in Iraq and Afghanistan, Kenya, Libya, Lebanon etc. etc. that experience continuous bombings. In Palestine they get unarmed protests which they disperse with teargas or other means. Some of them throw rocks. They are frustrated for losing their land. It's not like Israel are facing immediate danger. Israel could sign a deal right now if they wanted. It is up to them when and if they ever do. But since they claim that not having the deal gives them license to take more land, why would they want the deal? - - - Updated - - - They have left areas in the past and it wasnt done the "Palestinians" wanted more and will keep firing rockets to get it.[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE] You act like they didnt have a war again a few years back. Or that these groups aren't ramping up their capabilities. They have already withdrawn and none of the attacks stopped. They still play "kill all the Jews" on Palestinian TV. They still talk about the Jewish question. The Muslim brotherhood is on the march on their borders, Iran is arming itself with nukes, etc... In the midst of all that you think they should give up the only dettarant that stops Muslim invasions and give peace a chance? When has that worked for Israel in the past? When has withdrawal made their enemies less committed to genocide? The Muslims understand losing land though. They might sacrifice suicide bombers but not acres. Taking it after every attack against them and as a tool to pressure and to deter is Israels greatest weapon.
[/QUOTE] Sir, <GO OPEN A BOOK OF HISTORY> and learn that Israel is in its own <REALM>... This is the Land of the Jews from 4000 years! Those that try through <FALSEHOOD> pull the rug from under Israel and propagandize to unsuspecting readers with supposedly words from the PLO Syllabus are wrong!!! The nomenclature <Palestinian> was coined in 1964 by Nasser and Arafat. (Now this will open another thought I hope.)
This is a good question who is older people on those lands. You can go to Paleolithic to justify all kinds of aggression. People deserve to be treated well. Aggression will backfire. Federalize Israel!
You act like they didnt have a war again a few years back. Or that these groups aren't ramping up their capabilities. They have already withdrawn and none of the attacks stopped. They still play "kill all the Jews" on Palestinian TV. They still talk about the Jewish question. The Muslim brotherhood is on the march on their borders, Iran is arming itself with nukes, etc... In the midst of all that you think they should give up the only dettarant that stops Muslim invasions and give peace a chance? When has that worked for Israel in the past? When has withdrawal made their enemies less committed to genocide? The Muslims understand losing land though. They might sacrifice suicide bombers but not acres. Taking it after every attack against them and as a tool to pressure and to deter is Israels greatest weapon.[/QUOTE] If you were Palestinian you would play "kill the Jews" as well. If you were a Vietnamese during the Vietnam war you would play "kill the Americans" and if you are an American during 911 you play "Kill the Afghans, Kill Al Qaida, Kill Iraq and so on" This has been an ongoing blood feud for decades. There is no "right side", both have committed unjustified atrocities, killed innocents and so on. You talk Genocide but you talk about it like Israel does not want the Palestinians Gone . removed and so on. Forcible removal of someone from their homes - en masse- is Genocide. Supporting either side of this conflict is to support killing of innocents. Israel obviously has had far more support and more military capability due to our support of one side over the other. We hear our the media calling out the Palestinians (and rightly so) for firing rockets into crowded neighborhoods but when Israel drops 500 lb bombs on crowded neighborhoods the media is almost silent. I do not like any side in this conflict but there is no doubt that long ago our Country choose a side in this war and as such we are complicit in the wanton killing of innocent civilians.
AFSI Americans for a SAFE ISRAEL... write In the face of the blow-up of the "Peace Process" negotiations, a unique opportunity presents itself to the Israeli nation. Women In Green write about this in an important communication and we at AFSI are fully supportive of this initiative: A Window of opportunity... The following letter was sent by Women in Green last night to the members of Knesset of the National Camp. This is a translation of the original Hebrew letter. Honorable Members of Knesset, Shalom. We are sending this appeal to you at one of the rarest moments of opportunity that history has ever presented to Israeli policy makers. Next Monday, in a special recess session of the Knesset plenum, a discussion will be held addressing the issue of the political negotiations. We, members of the Women in Green movement, along with people both from Israel and the world at large who love the Land of Israel, appeal to you now, before this discussion takes place, with the belief that the collapse of the negotiations with the Palestinian Authority presents to the entire Jewish people and to you as statesmen of vision and faith, a rare moment in which Israel can retake control of the process and steer our policy away from the dangerous scenario leading us all to the precipice of terror that a Palestinian state in the heart of the Land of Israel would represent. The Palestinians' appeal to the UN is another flagrant violation of the wretched Oslo Accords and many other agreements on which they have signed and to which they have committed in the past. This violation allows Israel formally to free herself from previous unfavorable agreements that have been forced upon her in dubious and subversive ways by irresponsible politicians. The entire world is opening its eyes and sees the deception that lies behind Palestinian policy and with a suitable Israel advocacy effort, we can prove to the world the futility of continuing a discussion with a Palestinian partner who deceitfully speaks of peace but sows terror. Now is the time to present to the world the ethical, Zionist, realistic alternative to the two-state delusion - the vision of Israeli sovereignty over Judea and Samaria. This vision is backed up by Jewish history, justice and international law, as was proven by the report issued by Judge Edmund Levy, obm. This is the time to present a clear vision, and even if it is complex and presents various challenges, these challenges would be nothing compared to those that would be presented by the establishment of a terror state in the cradle of the Jewish People. When the leaders of Israel can present this clear vision, the vision of clinging to the land and applying sovereignty in it, they will find that the people support them with determination and faith in the justice of our cause, and when the people unite around such a vision, victory will surely follow. The necessity of presenting sovereignty as a political vision is independent of the Palestinians' deceptive course and mirages. The leaders of Israel must take initiative and lead the way and not make do with reactions and minimizing the damage to us, and perhaps this point in time presents a rare opportunity when a solid majority of the people in Israel and even many in the world are internalizing the futility of the old, exhausted political discussion and understand the need for a new and fresh alternative policy that will outline the way to a secure future for Israel and also for her neighbor. Now is the time for Israeli sovereignty! Sincerely, Yehudit Katsover and Nadia Matar Women in Green and the Forum for Sovereignty www.womeningreen.org www.ribonut.co.il 050-7161818 or 050-5500834 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree, the plan for a Greater Israel is a fantasy, but it all starts from what Israeli are doing now.
I am afraid you are mildly confused, it's not Israel which is pursuing a Greater Israel policy, it's Putin's Russia which is dreaming of the past glory of the Soviet Union. Israel occupying less than 0.2% of the Middle East has returned (in exchange for peace treaties) 99% of the land it conquered in defensive wars, in light of this the idea of Greater Israel won't fool a three year old, so absurd it is (fools lots of Israel haters though). It's Russia, already sitting on 1/6th of the world's land which is illegally occupying Japanese Islands, Chechnya (which population would love a referendum on independence too), parts of Georgia, parts of Ukraine etc. Duh.
No, I'm acting like they're not in a war now. I don't doubt Israel have started some wars in previous decades, but there isn't one now, and nothing stopping Israel from signing an agreement other than their reluctance. Which groups? And how are they ramping them up? They've got plastic improvised rockets now so they no longer need the duct-tape? You're still there, or else why are we even discussing this? Which attack is ongoing right now? Surely you've had periods of no rockets that last long enough to shift your soldiers back over the border, right? Is that like a game show or what? Do Jews die so that contestants can win cash prizes? You mean like Hitler? I think you'd find that more in Ukraine. Who's "they"? Where did you overhear this? Marching where? Are they armed? Israel have nukes already! Are you afraid of being nuked now? I think Iran are building a nuke, why wouldn't they when crazy nuke-armed Israeli leaders are out there who are also armed with nukes? The only responsible decision for Iran is to build a nuke as fast as they can so they don't go the way of Iraq, Afghanistan etc. It's called an "arms race". This "nuclear issue" has existed for many years now. They've had more than enough chance to make the bombs by now. So either Iran aren't making nuclear bombs, or they've already got them and they're not using them. People grew weary of all the "around the corner" crap and that's why finally we have talks, hopefully they don't get sabatoged. So Israel is in a better position then, because others are diplomatically working it out for you. You just stay there and flatten more homes and murder more unarmed civilians in Palestine. Do you want to explain how on Earth Israel bulldozing the homes of Palestinians "deters" Iran from making nukes!??!? Wouldn't nukes just be the better deterrent? And it deters from Muslim invasions?!??! And yet Israel are the ones doing the invasions in almost every occasion! You're nuclear-armed but you need to steal land in order to set a deterrent to Iran while they are in peace talks.. That's one of the most f-ud up arguments I've come across in a long time! Try withdrawing so we can find out! I'll bet you they wave you goodbye and are happy. I'll bet you if Israel packed up and went back to their rightful state at home, in full, you'd see the Palestinian reason for throwing stones and rocks go away. And if it didn't you'd have the whole world on your side and you could even let the Americans do the war crimes to continue killing them. It's an odd argument of yours when you ask me why your fallback approach doesn't work when your "spread further and conquer more land" paradigm has been in place the whole time. You take it when there's no attack. You are the side firing the weapons.
When did the Palestinians declare peace from their declaration or war in 1947 and when and where was the peace treaty signed and who were the signatories and why (if there is a peace treaty somewhere which I'm sure you will produce) do they still maintain a war footing with their official policy of destroying Israel and how on earth can they sign a treaty with parties that vow their destruction as their official policy and expect any change to the situation as it was in 1947?
There is no war as in no armed conflict. Merely an armed occupation of millions of who, a tiny percentage of who might retaliate now and again if they can can make a rocket or find a rock to throw. Your grudge from the past isn't what I was talking about. There is no "war" going on, and you can't say the current population of Palestinians have any "war footing" or "policy to destroy Israel".
The war never ended, as in they attacked, tried to wipe Israel off the map, had their as$es handed to them, refused to surrender, refused to make peace, refused to acknowledge the other side's right to exist....and they are just biding their time, looking for the next opportunity to strike, to deal a mortal and they don't mind waiting for decades or centuries. They know no peace, hudna at best, if it serves their goal of eventually wiping Israel off the map of course.
None of that is armed combat and the people there aren't all the same as those from fifty years ago. - - - Updated - - - What does that even mean? What's the legal procedure for doing this? Did Israel do it for the other side too, in the same manner?
