If Oswald was KGB

Discussion in 'JFK' started by Jango, Apr 18, 2014.

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  1. Jango

    Jango New Member

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    If Lee Harvey Oswald was on the KGB payroll or was sympathetic to their (Soviet/communism) cause and was willing to assassinate President Kennedy for his benefactors/compatriots in ideology, and the U.S. defense apparatus knew about the connection/order, what would they have done about it?

    A) Do you think World War III with full thermonuclear exchanges would have occurred over an assassinated head of state, particularly if the U.S. public found out about it?

    B) Would there have been a middle ground response like sanctions, embargoes, repositioning of military assets in Europe, etc.

    C) Concealment of the U.S.S.R./K.G.B. marionetting of Oswald.
     
  2. ar10

    ar10 New Member

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    Seems more light shows he was our plant on them, than the other way around?

    One must also recognize there were several Oswald's. Two for sure, doing it full time, from the 50's on. Then additional Oswald's as circumstanced dictated. Two Oswald's can be studied in a book called Harvey & Lee.

    Look at their photos on Google. One with a square strong chin, one with a weaker pointy chin. Similar, but not the same.
     
  3. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    There were not multi[le Oswald's.

    There were simply many people who thought they saw Oswald and described him differently or confused another person with Oswald.

    This is very common in any investigation into any crime which makes headlines.
     
  4. Jango

    Jango New Member

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    That'd go for an interesting movie though, like Salt, but with lookalikes.
     
  5. 9/11 was an inside job

    9/11 was an inside job Well-Known Member

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    yeah thats a great book.
     
  6. ar10

    ar10 New Member

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    [video=youtube_share;QalNyRp3Tsc]http://youtu.be/QalNyRp3Tsc[/video]


    According to Douglas Horne, the USA had undetected bugs in the USSR embassy some time in the past, and overheard the KGB making reports that the USA had a Coup, and framed Oswald. They seemed to not have anything to do with it, but was aware, we as a country, changed power, with a bullet.

    This is over 6 hours, but very rich with information.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QalNyRp3Tsc
     
  7. ar10

    ar10 New Member

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    The short version, is 18 minutes.

    [video=youtube_share;R1u1QMKJk1k]http://youtu.be/R1u1QMKJk1k[/video]
     
  8. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm not sure what the response would be. There are still classified info from JFK's assassination that probably will never see the light of day. But instead of the KGB if there was a commie connection I would look towards Cuba.
     
  9. Jango

    Jango New Member

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    If it was Cuba, do you think they would have undertaken the plot by themselves, or with the Soviets as facilitators and enablers? I think if Cuba was involved so the Soviets would be too, either directly or indirectly. It is interesting to note that Khrushchev did not make another year in office before he was removed from power in what looked to be a bloodless coup. It could very well be nothing, or, on the other hand, just another strand in the complexities of the JFK Assassination.
     
  10. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Perhaps if it was Castro and that so far is a big if, yes soviet involvement would be indirectly. Knowing of the plot, possible but then if again in a way although a puppet of the soviets, Castro was his own man. If he knew Khrushchev if he found out about would nix the plot, it is possible he would go it alone without informing the soviets. Whole lot of questions and what ifs are involved.

    I always thought the removal of Khrushchev had more to the him backing down during the Cuban Missile crisis than the assassination of JFK. But that is one avenue I never gave any thought to. But having lived through both, there was a lot of thought to the Cuban connection going on. A lot of people thought what amounted to the perceived cover up wasn't who shot JFK or the grassy knoll or anything else. It was Cuban involvement.

    Back then if Cuban involvement was brought out to the public and if it was true. A lot of ifs there. I think the majority of Americans would have wanted to destroy Castro with whatever it took. Perhaps LBJ knew that and decided having the conspiracy theories surrounding the shooter, the grassy knoll, perhaps CIA involvement, numerous other conspiracies was better than letting out the truth. Who knows?
     
  11. Jango

    Jango New Member

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    I believe that is closer to the truth (Foreign involvement being ignored to save humanity from thermonuclear war) than the lone-wolf theory that has been put forth by the government for 50+ years. The theory that the C.I.A. was operationally involved is the product of a Soviet disinformation campaign.

    And yes, there are many Ifs, however, I suspect many What Ifs would be put to rest if the government decided to be transparent and release all of the documentation they've purposely withheld from public scrutiny for the past 50+ years.
     
  12. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I doubt if the government ever will release all the documentation and intel reports. I understand there is still stuff from WWI that remains classified. Why that is after almost 100 years who knows? Without going into detail, there is a downgrading instruction "Exempt from Downgrading." In other words these types of documents remained their originally classification forever or until the President's Review Board on Classified Information, it has had many names, they are the only ones who have the authority to downgrade documents exempt from downgrading.

    Depending upon the president, sometimes his review board can only recommend downgrading a document and under others they can do it on their own.
     
  13. DarkDaimon

    DarkDaimon Well-Known Member

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    Actually, Oswald was a member of MI-5 and was actually trying to stop the assassination of Jackie Kennedy. This would be common knowledge if the sheeple were not swayed by the propaganda of the shills in the media.
     
  14. Jango

    Jango New Member

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    [​IMG]

    - - - Updated - - -

    I doubt if they will too. By all appearances, they prefer us to remain in the dark and ignorant.
     
  15. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's government. One would assume if the government was afraid of how the people would react to a number of what if's we put forth back then, what does it have to be afraid of today 50 plus years later? That event in Dallas was a history changer, it took this country off one path and placed in onto another.
     
  16. Jango

    Jango New Member

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    It depends on the amount of other lies this stonewalled information exposes, methinks. Fifty+ years of lies is one enormous avalanche to try and weather and wait out. The IC back in Kennedy's heyday were doing off-the-books missions willy nilly - assassinations of foreign leaders, coups, human experimentation, surreptitious entry, planting of propaganda in the American press by U.S. journalists and media people, domestic spying, infiltrating universities with spies, opening mail, etc. The amount of still classified documents could reveal many previously unknown aspects of the JFK assassination itself, as well other programs that were going on during the Cold War.
     
  17. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    True, Eisenhower was very good at utilizing covert means to get what he wanted accomplished done. JFK the same although the bay of pigs came back to harm him. Perhaps all these things are interconnected. Back then one did not expect the government to lie to them, but today they do. Some may not admit that, probably because they want to trust their government. But they are never sure what the government says is the truth.
     
  18. Jango

    Jango New Member

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    Of course. The government will say X and show evidence (sometimes often enough "evidence") for X but "forget" to mention Y & Z. It would be interesting to see the internal histories that the government adheres to, as in, what really happened in any particular event as what the general public knows on any given subject could be all lies or even 1% of the true version, hence, why history itself is not on solid foundation as new information continues to trickle out.
     
  19. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You betcha. I'm retired military and I have personally seen government lie about things to keep covert what we were up to. Other times it was best just to let the people think what they knew was right even when it wasn't.

    You are right, I do not think we can really trust history that is in our history books on certain things. But not all things will trickle out. That is true whether dealing with JFK assassination, the Cuban missile crisis, or just about everything else.
     
  20. Jango

    Jango New Member

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    It goes down to the mundane even - the F.B.I. recently allowed their dictionary of Internet linguistics to be declassified. Overclassification is a major problem - you've mentioned it: about WWI information still being classified. I'm open to the possibility that the information being withheld is in regards to an event that has the ability to change the way people think about things. There's already enough of that information readily available on the Internet as it is, like things that I've previously mentioned (human experimentation, mind control, assassinations, etc etc). Seeing the man behind the curtain has the tendency to get the attention of a person who had been completely unaware of the marionette pulling the strings. The thing with history books is just a cog in the overall system - make it the law for children to be educated while having the overall authority of what that child needs to be taught. When I graduated high school (2004), the most recent event I was taught about in any of my history classes was Vietnam. Vietnam, man. So, imagine my surprise when I discovered that a lot of history had happened since the end of the Vietnam war. It was a hell of a long way to fall, and that goes back to what you had mentioned: people want to believe their government because that's how they were taught. Being shown that blind faith is not always the best recourse is a transcendent moment in a person's life, just like when a husband comes home to a, "I can't take it anymore, so I want a divorce," letter. Then, after a while, a person will realize that surprise could be around any corner and that it could come at any moment.
     
  21. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am an old fart who graduated from High School in 1964 and lived through the Cuban Missile Crisis and JFK assassination. The military is great for over classification of documents and even events. The intelligence agencies are even worse

    Having experienced and lived through a lot of history by now, it seems to me our history books are filled with versions of history. Which version you get may depend on when that history book was written and by whom. Then throw society of today into mix and how they view different certain things colors how events and the men who made history are viewed.

    As an example my history books of the late 50's and early 60's probably portrayed Christopher Columbus quite differently from yours. Surprises are bound to leap out at us, when they happen.
     
  22. Jango

    Jango New Member

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    Surprisingly enough, Columbus was taught to me in a positive light. I didn't know about his other exploits until I met my wife, who's a history teacher. She has certainly opened my eyes. My own internal curiosity has driven me to find more, and the truth if it is to be found.

    And I agree wholeheartedly on the "versions of history" aspect.
     
  23. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And the really sad part of it, the different versions is they may vary by region of the country.
     
  24. Jango

    Jango New Member

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    Or family-to-family, like with my mother's side, the Hatfield's. The version of that blood feud is told differently to the McCoy's, a few of which I met in the Marines.

    I've been meaning to ask: what was your eye opening experience, the one where you realized that you'd been lied to by the government?
     
  25. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Okay, in 1969 I was part of Project 404 stationed in Laos during that countries secret war. There were only around 120 of us serving normal one year tours since 1966. Nixon came on the TV and told the nation we had no American troops stationed in Laos. At that time all of us got a big kick out of it. Our presents was classified secret. We all laughed and then continued on with the conduct of the war.

    But as time went by, the more things I saw and experienced I keep remembering back to 1969. The president telling a lie directly to the American people, not the government telling the lie to me, I was part of that lie. So many things were not what the people were being told, who was president didn't matter. But it took a very long time for me to realize it, 10-20 years or more. Knowing presidents and our government lies is different than actually becoming aware that they are doing it if that makes any sense. One can know things, but if one doesn't put them together and realize what they are, they just remain things you know. Bits and pieces of knowledge not yet put into a form that one can recognize.
     

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