Stagecoach has got to be the Western Supreme. The original still unbeat by any remake. 1) Like any good Western, Stagecoach is a morality play. 2) The great open places with the stagecoach stops being islands in an inhospitable ocean and the stagecoach itself a life boat. 3) The music. I Hate Music! Yes I do. To me it is "noise". But, the music in Stagecoach matches the action, and I could listen to it on its owns. 4) Scenes that may not take long in the film but speak volumes. Like the lady's escort saving the last bullet for her as the Indians seem to be overtaking the stagecoach, then the cavalry trumpet coming in the nick of time. Anyone care to discuss Stagecoach (1939) and Westerns in general. Favs. The Western Standards. Moi A Stagecoach Click image, see what happens.
I do like Stagecoach a lot, for me the quintessential Western is High Noon. Basically narrated and edited in real time it is an exceptionally gripping piece of cinema. Another personal fave is the Good The Bad and the Ugly. The morality of that film is a lot more blurred and even the good guys have a dark history.
All John Ford's Westerns are masterpieces. My personal favorite is My Darling Clementine. I see it a couple times a year. Perfect fusion of story, setting, acting, and, yes, music. Ford sacrificed accuracy to art, which was the right choice. For example, he loved to film in Monument Valley, with its dramatic rock formations and stark lighting. Of course that meant pretending people could ranch and farm and build towns in a desert with ankle-deep sand, but who cares? Moi has it right when he lists morality, open spaces, music, and iconic scenes as the heart of Ford's style and of every great Western.
Stagecoach, starring John Wayne and assorted others, was on TCM yesterday. John Wayne is TCM's star of the month. Another John Wayner She Wore a Yellow Ribbon is on today. Good classic motion pictures. However all films, both then and now make one simple, racist, propaganda political statement: the white man is evil and the Indians are good. Hollywood propaganda is the reason why white Americans have been guilted into thinking that minorities, African Americans in particular, are sacred.
Stagecoach is undoubtedly a great movie. I watch it most every chance I get. May I also suggest 'Bite The Bullet' with Gene Hackman, Pete Coburn, Ben Johnson, Candice Bergin, and a few lesser known fine actors. Released in '75, but as fresh today as ever. Available on Amazon.
Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman managed the Indian story well. It is a shame that series was cancelled as it was demonstrating the Civilization of the West, not just the settling. Likewise Little House on the Prairie although it could really be too maudlin. There is still plenty of room for the production of good western without getting "political". Stick with the basics of morality, wide open spaces, matching music and some story scenes too. Moi No Their wagon trains were cruel dog sleds.
Very good, but I think an even better Eastwood film is "The Outlaw Josie Wales". Doesn't matter, I've seen 'em both a dozen times.
"Open Range" got a little political but was still a good western. "3:10 to Yuma" was superb. "True Grit", old and new, were superb. Still plenty of room for a good western. My favorite genre.
HBO's Deadwood with its' Shakespearean script. Certainly "of the west". No great open vistas. Had the music. Had the morality play. Some forgiveness for it was, historical fiction. Yes there was a Bulluch, Starr, Swerengen, George Hearst, and a Black Lady they patterned as in his employ. Deadwood was a good drama. Does it count as a good Western? Moi No
"I didn't surrender, but they took my horse and made him surrender. They have him pulling a wagon up in Kansas I bet."
John Ford was old enough to remember the old west. Stagecoach was good but two quintessential masterpieces in my mind is 'The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance', and 'The Gunfighter' with Gregory Peck. 'The Shootist' was John Wayne's version of 'The Gunfighter', and the movie 'the gunfighter' was written with Wayne in mind to play the starring role, and he felt cheated for not getting the opportunity to play Ringo. Another well written movie about the hardness of the west was 'The Oxbow Incident'. 'The Oxbow Incident' was to the psyche of the western what '12 Angry Men' was to court room dramas.
Wayne may not have taken the role in "The Gunfighter" if it didn't help mold the John Wayne persona. Out of persona roles, such as "The Searchers" were rare by his decision. The Ox Bow Incident was just a drama that could be set in almost any time period. Thanks for your suggestions but "Stagecoach" wins because of the music, open spaces with islands of moderate civilization, and the timely rescue by the cavalry. I know more because John Wayne spent his last years in my city The Shootist, like Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman in its' last year were exploring the Civilizing of the West. The Indians were pretty well gone. The substitution of trolley lines and motor cars for a horse. This was probably The West of Ford's childhood. Not Stagecoach - although I bet he heard stories as did Margaret Mitchell, author of GWTW growing up with stories of the War Between the States. Moi I know more because John Wayne spent his last years In my city Old West
It wasn't about molding a persona, but a personal grudge with a man named Harry Cohn who had treated Wayne when he was a contract player. Cohn actually bought the rights exclusively for Wayne to play the part but Wayne's pride was too stubborn, and the grudge too deep. Cohn sold the script and informed 20th Century Fox Wayne wasn't interested so he didn't want to do the project. They then took on Peck, thinking Wayne didn't want to play the part, when he actually would have if Cohn was out of the picture. The rest is movie history. Interesting bit of trivia, the Gunfighter was considered a flop at the box office, but it was television where it grew an audience. One producer blamed the dire box office tickets on the cheesy mustache Peck wore, and said if he had seen some out takes in the early days of filming he would have made him cut it. Unfortunately most of the filming was in the can when they actually watched some of the dailies and nothing could be done at that point. The OxBow incident was a drama but the main storyline/attitude was all western. Yes he was born in 1894, so most of the midwest was settling down but many historians include the old west in some areas up until the 1912's. Significant to that date, the adjoining 48 states became complete, and the settling of the west was complete. They were still having old west style shootouts, settling the area, and staking claims in Arizona up and into the 1920's. Big Jake was also a turn of the century, times are changing, type of a western, along with the Wild Bunch, and a few others as was the theme of The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance.
Silverado.......not sure why but I really like that Western alot. I pretty much like any movie with Clint Eastwood in it especially GBU. I hate John Wayne movies. He is literally a one act actor with no ability to play anything other than his default character. The only movie I like that he was in was that black and white WW2 film and that as mostly because at the time it was one of the more realistic war movies similar to a Saving Private Ryan. Hell on Wheels is a Western TV show that I really like. It is slow and does drag from time to time but it doesn't pull any punches and similar to Game of Throwns, no one is immune from getting killed off.
Laughable, especially when you consider how Clint Eastwood and John Wayne were members of the far right.
Stagecoach (1939) The Western Standard hard to beat I do like the title of this topic. John Wayne was better known for his roles in "True Grit" and "The Searchers" - both films highly praised over the years by commentators and deservedly so. But I always felt his role in "Stagecoach" was greatly under rated. In fact, I felt this was his best role, ever. The movie also had a superb supporting cast.
One good Western often overlooked is "The White Buffalo" with Charles Bronson. Sort of a Western/Horror hybrid, very spiritual, with the heart of the story taking place in a cave. Has what is the best line in movies IMO, but I'll let you judge for yourself when you hear it.
A Good Western is also a Good Morality Play! Remember how "Dallas" was shunned although she was the "Madonna of the West". There are even a few frames where a cross is hanging on a wall behind her. At the end, she is given invitations to visit if in the n'hood and Dallas gives her cloak to the snobby woman who just had the baby. Watch how the "nurse" and older women who take the baby into their care treat Dallas. It goes on. Sit back and look at the grand, desolate vista as the "lifeboat" stagecoach traveling across the desert sea. Okay, the Indians. One explanation I subscribe to is that the Jewish Hollywood Studio owners came from experiences with pogroms committed by Cossack. Peaceful people being attacked by mounted hooligans, it was an easy transfer from Cossack to Indian. Stagecoach can be watched over and over, like Casablanca - and feel a new viewing experience. Moi r > g View attachment 38782 Across an immense, unguarded, ethereal border, Canadians, cool and unsympathetic, regard our America with envious eyes and slowly and surely draw their plans against us.
Significantly, the movie's principle writer was Ben Hecht - great Jewish conservative scholar who wrote the stunning book Perfidy. The book is MUST reading for everyone just as this Hollywood gem is a MUST see movie for all.
I agree that it is a "morality" play - one based on how conventional morality was defined at that time. "Dallas" was shunned by the local Pure Prairie League because she was a lady of the night - women were known to be hanged for daring to live such a lifestyle years before that. While she had been exiled for her misbehavior she was to be redeemed by marrying Ringo Kid and because she ably assisted the pregnant woman (sorry, forgot her name) who had fainted when she mistakenly believed her soldier husband was killed or severely wounded. The Doc was shunned as well - in those days the Temperance League was in full force and they would soon demand the enactment of Prohibition. The fact that he was a drunk also made him persona non grata. And then there was that evil banker - one who not only absconded with the funds, he left his wife behind in an era when divorce was considered evil. Luckily he got his. The one mysterious character was the sharp looking Southern gent played by John Carradine. He had only one bullet remaining - did he intend to use it in order to keep a white woman from being captured and used as sex slave by the Indians? Or was she a target because her husband was a Yankee during the Civil War? We don't know. But we know what happened to him. Ringo Kid got his revenge. He (a wanted criminal) was redeemed as was Dallas. The doc was saved and presumably started a new life - one that was sobered. The law man fulfilled his duty. Justice was done. Morality (as defined in that era) was preserved. There is probably a lot more that can be said about this movie.
Clint is my fave. The 3 guys he killed (that he was supposed to rob the bank with) in FAFDM were Blackie, Chico and Paco.
