If I was Prime Minister

The first thing I would have done when I heard about the MH17 incident would be.

A polite but firm phone call to President Poroshenko. "Mr Poroshenko, at this point in time a small contingent of SAS operatives are preparing to travel to your country. They come with all hopes of a full co-operation from your government and it's forces. We come for one purpose, to secure the sight of the murder of at least 28 of our nationals and to aid any other countries that wish to obtain access to the area. We wish to obtain three objectives. To find, identify and repatriate our citizens remains and their belongings. To secure the area to ensure that any evidence to the crime is not destroyed and to ensure that international experts have free and safe access to the scene. To ensure that someone pays for this outrage. We are not putting any blame, we are not coming to judge, we are coming to get our people and see that they get justice. Australia is certain that you and your countrymen would want the same."

 

If a Ukrainian was murdered in Australia I doubt we'd accept Ukrainian military forces entering our country.

 

Its not quite that simple is it. I am sure if they have nothing to hide they would be happy enough.

 

DV,
our PM is only a real man when he can send our border personnel into international waters to send refugees back or a real man to sit in an completely unnecessary fighter plane to demonstrate the real man..
But returning to the subject, Toneee Abbotts is such a man that he won't do anything without asking the Americans of what and how to do. Never was our country or better government so immature in international relations then now....
Regards

 

one Aussie wasn't...29 were, at once. as isolated as your land is, i would think you'd be more sensitive to transportation safety.

 

You really think if 29 foreigners were murdered in Australia that Australia would allow a foreign military to enter our territory?

 

Depends.

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Since the area is contested it would be difficult, but for what it's worth, I like the idea and the approach. Problem is though, how many special forces troops from various countries should the Ukrainians allow into the area?

 

Hello Australian citizens. My name is Julie "big-mouth" Bishop, and I have taken this opportunity of people's deaths, to take advantage of any medai coverage I can get to spread my false propaganda.

I am flying to the USA for 2 weeks on an Australian tax payer funded "junket" under the disguise of telling the USA Government, that the Australian Government wants them to conduct an independent invesitgation into Malaysian flight MH 17.

But wait, only majority support of the UN council member Nations can order an independent inquiry. So why am I fying over to the USA for 2 week vacation to ask them to provided something they cannot do?

Yes. You citizens have to work until you are 65, and your youth cannot get any welfare assistance after leaving education, because I tell you the country cannot afford it, but I can vacation in the USA at tax payers expense under the disguise of a political junket.

My name is Juile Bishop.

 

I have read reports of looting at the crime scene, destruction of evidence, removal of bodies
and general chaos...investigators have been denied access by pro Russian rebels....
all this while Bishop flies to America for two weeks....
I would have thought:
a) any or all of the above would be considered an act of war
b) representatives of the countries of domicile of the deceased would have flown
to Russia to speak with Putin...

If any of the above is considered an act of war by Russia...what is everyone doing....
sitting on their hands....its as if Russia can do as they please.....and Nero fiddles on....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntLsElbW9Xo

 

I was watching the UN council speaking their false propaganda on ABC 24 the other night, and when it came time for the Chinese representative to speak, the ABC said they didn't have any Chinese translators available. This was a deliberate act of deception and lies by the ABC, and they no loner have the right to call themselves reporters or journalists due to their bias reporting. They didn't want the Australian public knowing that the Chinese UN representative has told the USA and the rest of the crows including the Australian "no-bodies" to back off accusing Russia of this crime, without any proof they were involved. How the hell can Russia be accused of anything when no independent investigation has even been started? For we know, the Ukraine's shot down the plane thinking it was a Russian jet, because they had the missile capability also in the same area.

The Yanks are just causing trouble by accusing Russia of this crime without evidence and proof, because Russia is one of only 2 countries left on the planet that has the balls and the guts to stand up to them.

 

What's really p1ssing me off is people using this tragedy. At this point in time there should be one, and only one concern. To secure the area and retrieve the bodies. The politics can wait.

To panzer, if we were in a similar situation to what the Ukraine is, it would be a different story. If Australia took this action of it's own accord, we would be seen as doing it impartially, but if we wait for the USA to take the lead, we will be seen as supporting them, not our own people.

 

How many countries and bandit groups does the USA sell military equipment too? Why are not the USA blamed for the untold deaths of innocent women and children "their" military equipment kills?

Or is Russia the only one we are allowed to point the fingers at these days, because the USA tells us too?

I am simply disgusted in the biased way our politicians and media have conducted themselves in this matter. I don't think their morals and ethics are any higher than the people who shot down the plane. Water always finds its own level.

 

I agree, I have always spoke out against how the US tries to manipulate the world. This thread is about securing a possible murder site and the repatriation of the victims.

I do not think politics was on the minds of the dozens of children destroyed. I don't think those parents who lost one of their parents and three children are either. I think they are more interested in burying their loved ones with some dignity.

 

I also agree 100 here. Its about allowing family and friends to claim the remains of the deceased - nothing more at this time. I am also against US manipulation, and hopefully this time with the support of China in the UN, they will not be allowed to spread their false propaganda so easily.

 

Disappointing to see the lack of interest in this act of war by Putin...
36 Australians killed....nil Americans...maybe we are just interested
in the footy results....what a pathetic species we are....
Go to "Latest US and World News" and thread entitled "Passenger Plane shot down over Ukraine"
and post 558...very interesting...558 replies and 4858 views....
We cant even get a discussion going......pathetic....

 

OK I will explain more now I have a computer with a keyboard and more time.

We call the US a friend, and it is, but tell me this, how often do you ask your friends for permission to do something. Sure you may tell them what you are doing, you may tell them that you are going to do it, or if needed you may even tell them what you have done after you do it ... but do you ask them permission?

We not only look like puppets, but our pollies on both sides race over there and hand them the strings...

This incident has nothing more to do with the USA then any other country, maybe less we don't seem to have any Americans on the manifest.

We seem to underestimate our own potential, something that has plagued us for many years.

We do have a fairly good military, yes we are small and definitely under armed, but that is as it has always been and we have always put in more than our fair share. We do however have a relatively small but pretty awesome Special Air Service and Commando units. 500 of these blokes offer a pretty formidable force.

We do have a reputation both as a people and our politics of being pretty easy going and fair, maybe that was a bit tarnished by Vietnam and Iraq, but generally we are seen as fair people, not a country that goes looking to make trouble.

Ukraine has been asking for help from the west since this rot began.

I am sure we could convince them that this is purely to secure the site, to protect the remains, and allow fair access. We would ensure them as soon as it was complete, we would remove everything as quickly as we came.

I do not think that any reasonable country would not support us, maybe join us. I am sure, that of all the countries in the world that could stand up to Putin and cause him to concede it would be Australia or the Netherlands. Australia is a more scary prospect I believe than Holland, no ill feeling meant.

Australia just needs one thing ... a Prime Minister with balls.

 

DV..this is an act of war by Russia....and no-one will do a bloody thing about it.......

 

Like I said, we need someone with balls, let's be the mouse that roared, after all we are "The Rats". Let's call their bluff, all this bullsh1t is getting monotonous

I doubt if Putin would declare war on Australia over this, wouldn't look good in the history books.

 

Pffft hehe, a group of SAS would not be that useful up against tens of MBT's and various types of armor, especially if the pro-Russian's have under cover Russian special operations forces embedded. The only thing I would have liked to see would have been a dozen Dutch AH64's escorting a contingent of Dutch Marines aboard CH47's flying in to secure the crash site. I mean, they did lose a lot more and are a LOT closer. Heck, they could drive there if they wanted....

The UK could join in providing CAS, SEAD, top cover and ISR and the Royal Marines to close off the border with Russia. The AH64's and CAS would finish off any pro-Russian insurgent reaction in good time. Geez even the US might send some Marines too.

Expecting Australia to do more is... cute.

 

I am not talking declaring war, or even getting involved in it, I am talking about securing a crime scene. I feel that except for the most heartless, all would respect that. When a crime is committed, say in Kings Cross. They don't call in a thousand cops, a few is usually enough.

 

Yea my angle too, but it would have had to have been approached with force protection, and its a good idea to use sufficient force plus some more, ideally enough to intimidate the defenders enough to not bother fighting at all!! I think in reality it was a Russian missile and they've all been scouring the area looking for fragments so not to directly link back to the fatherPutinland. Russia would have always been the wild card with any deployment of serious military assets to secure the wreckage, but assuming they were already looked too dirty from this I'd guess the outcome would have depended on the insurgents response - if they fought.. then Ukraine could have linked up and finished em off, but if they didnt fight then it would have been back to the status quo. Of course, it it was a Russian missile that did the deed, then stopping anyone from the West getting on the ground early could have been enough reason to actually engage any attempt to secure the site. <shrugs>

 

Of course they don't want it linked back. I am certain, that the delays have been while they found the missile parts to hide the perpetrators. The rebels are highly uneducated farmers etc, they will be bound to miss a vital piece of evidence. Alexei: "We have to find all the bits so they don't know it is us". Vladimir: "It's OK, don't worry, we got all the big pieces."

Yes, in the big chess game I am sure they (Russians) would have pulled their heads in, maybe the rebels would have tried to fight but I am sure that a team of 500 SAS and Commandos would have no problem. If we went it alone I would say it would take only hours for someone to get our back, especially the dutch. Even Putin would know that any ... any act against these troops would bring in the entire Western world and I don't think that even he would take us all on over this. Diplomacy certainly has first priority, but sometimes a stick gets better results. "Can we come get our people?" "Well guess what, we are!"

 

Why would Putin be worried about what weapons he gave or sold to the Pro-Russian separatists. Putin, nor Russia is responsible for how these separatists use these weapons.

If we follow this logic. Then isn't the USA and Barrack Obama guilty of the same crimes as Putin & Russia, by giving and selling Israel weapons, that have killed hundreds of innocent Palestinian men, women & children?

Don't forget people, it was the good old US of A that originally supplied the Taliban with weapons to help drive the Russians out of Afghanistan in the 80's. The same weapons that were used to killed USA and Australian troops in the current war against the Taliban.

This is like saying. I have all intentions of buying a car and killing someone with it, and everyone else blames the person who sold me the car for murder.

Why are we listening too, and taking any notice of this biased and illogical media that's controlled by the USA, who's only agenda is to make Russia look bad.

 

Because they seem to have operational involvement beyond just supply, and they deny it. It's use was not defensive, as high altitude aircraft are not invovled in ground operations in such a small area like the Donetsk region.

Israel is irrelevant, that is an open purchase intended for self defence and its use is generally speaking 'legal' by the laws of war. You might need to have a closer impartial look at the conduct of both sides in Israel as it sounds like your just peddling the pro-Palestinian biased perspective.

 

Please read the following link. You might get a better understanding of American propaganda and their bias intentions relating to other countries. The USA is always the first to point the finger at someone else with the help of the bias media, but never at themselves.

Didn't here much "world" outrage and condemnation about this, but then again, only innocent Iranian men, women, and children were killed in this brutal attack - no international passengers. After all, it was an American missile - and who would blame them?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655