Naomi Ragen sums it up as it should be, since Haaretz jumped the wagon and speaks for the enemy now. Naomi explains the situation to unmask some of the goody good <pea brains> that say we have been extremely heartless confronting these bombers of indiscriminate missiles that kept whole families in shelters... Read on. Its Okay. Dont Cry for Us Israelis ~By Naomi Ragen Im sitting here in Jerusalem after a week of heartbreak over three murdered teens, followed by two weeks of sirens, bomb blasts, and finally, the funerals of young IDF soldiers, of whom one-third are students who should be taking their final exams, instead of risking their lives. Im reading on the internet about what a horrible person I am as an Israeli and as a Jew, and what a terrible, immoral country I live in. All this criticism comes mainly from the European press: The Guardian, the BBC, papers in Italy, Norway, France, and dont forget America: The New York Times, CNN. And Im thinking: Gee, the British should understand. After all, they lived through the blitz, Nazis raining bombs indiscriminately down on them, the way Hamas is raining bombs down on us. And when the brave pilots of the RAF aimed their bombs at Dresden killing 300,000 men, women and children, they didnt throw down leaflets telling people to politely evacuate; didnt send their soldiers to knock on doors to see if theyd followed the leaflets instructions ( as CNN complained Israel failed to do at an UNRWA school, which was probably hit by a Hamas bomb anyway.) And I think of the rest of Europe, who rounded up our grandparents and great-grandparents, and relatives men, women and childrenand sent them off to be gassed, no questions asked. And I think: They are now the moral arbiters of the free world? They are telling the descendants of the people they murdered how to behave when other anti-Semites want to kill them? As for Americans, represented by the New York Times, that bastion of high-minded hypocrisy and mediocre journalism parading as the newspaper of record, one has only to read the article by Professor Auerbach in the New York Observer (Two Weeks of Shallow, Facile Moral Equivalency From the New York Times) to see how Jodi Rudoren and other Times apparatchiks have learned to close their minds and love Hamas. After all, there are CHILDREN DYING. It doesnt matter that the Palestinians have educated an entire generation to be little Nazi-wannabes, who worship death and hate Jews, murdering their souls, and are now callously putting their bodies in harms way to use for touching photo ops. We shouldnt be shocked by this omission by the Times. After all, The New York Times was one of the last news outlets to bring to the attention of the reading public the Nazi atrocities in Europe. Read the Times during the nightmare years, and see if you cant find a pattern here. And so, as an Israeli, brought up with Jewish values, and an American, taught to love freedom, justice, democracy and fair play, I have to tell all of you- Europeans, Americans, and last of all Muslim terrorist sympathizers and barbarians, that what you are saying no longer moves anyone of good moral judgment and intelligence. The current crisis in Gaza is so morally clear-cut, so absolutely a case of self-defense, that I must say to you, as someone finally said to Senator McCarthy: Sir, have you no shame? I prefer that you - writers of these lies and libels-- hate me and my country, if it means that you can save your tears for other peoples dead. We arent greedy for sympathy. After all, we got so much after the Holocaust, we prefer other people to have their share now. These days, we prefer to live, rather than have people cry over us and the injustices done to us. So by all means, cry for the Palestinian people - men women and children- whose duly elected leadership has callously left them without protection from just retribution for their terrorist crimes. Who took their aid money and are living in Qatar in five star hotels building shopping centers for themselves. Who built terrorist tunnels under their homes, mosques, hospitals and schools, and recruited their sons to die for Allah, while they sit in bunkers waiting for the U.N. to rescue them. Dont cry for us, or our families, or our children, or grandchildren. Not this time. Not ever. Not if we can help it. Because this time, thank God, we have a country. We are armed. This time, with God's help, we know how to protect ourselves from Nazis and their high-minded media cheerleaders. I would like to end this with an expletive and a hand gesture towards the people Im addressing. Please choose one you think would be fitting. I can think of many
If America will stop supporting one of her few true friends, the Arab Muslum violence will spread and reach it's borders. And it's gonna hurt !! real bad.
Israel is not a friend, the Jews were also instrumental in passing the so called 1965 dream act which opened the borders for third world immigrants to flood America. Stop being a leach and a coward, fight and pay for your own wars. What's wrong? You can't stand up to the poor gazans living in an open air prison? That is pathetic.
Jewish Involvement in Shaping American Immigration Policy, 1881-1965: A Historical Review pdf version By Kevin MacDonald Based on Chapter 7 of The Culture of Critique: An Evolutionary Analysis of Jewish Involvement in Twentieth-Century Intellectual and Political Movements. MacDonald, K. B. (1998/2002). Westport, CT: Praeger; paperback version: Bloomington, IN: 1stbooks Library, 2002. Also available at Amazon and Barnes & Noble. MacDonald, K. B. (199. Jewish involvement in influencing United States immigration policy, 1881-1965: A historical review. Population and Environment, 19, 295-355. ABSTRACT This paper discusses Jewish involvement in shaping United States immigration policy. In addition to a periodic interest in fostering the immigration of co-religionists as a result of anti-Semitic movements, Jews have an interest in opposing the establishment of ethnically and culturally homogeneous societies in which they reside as minorities. Jews have been at the forefront in supporting movements aimed at altering the ethnic status quo in the United States in favor of immigration of non-European peoples. These activities have involved leadership in Congress, organizing and funding anti-restrictionist groups composed of Jews and gentiles, and originating intellectual movements opposed to evolutionary and biological perspectives in the social sciences. INTRODUCTION Ethnic conflict is of obvious importance for understanding critical aspects of American history, and not only for understanding Black/White ethnic conflict or the fate of Native Americans. Immigration policy is a paradigmatic example of conflict of interest between ethnic groups because immigration policy influences the future demographic composition of the nation. Ethnic groups unable to influence immigration policy in their own interests will eventually be displaced or reduced in relative numbers by groups able to accomplish this goal. This paper discusses ethnic conflict between Jews and gentiles in the area of immigration policy. Immigration policy is, however, only one aspect of conflicts of interest between Jews and gentiles in America. The skirmishes between Jews and the gentile power structure beginning in the late nineteenth century always had strong overtones of anti-Semitism. These battles involved issues of Jewish upward mobility, quotas on Jewish representation in elite schools beginning in the nineteenth century and peaking in the 1920s and 1930s, the anti-Communist crusades in the post-World War II era, as well as the very powerful concern with the cultural influences of the major media extending from Henry Ford's writings in the 1920s to the Hollywood inquisitions of the McCarthy era and into the contemporary era. That anti-Semitism was involved in these issues can be seen from the fact that historians of Judaism (e.g., Sachar 1992, p. 620ff) feel compelled to include accounts of these events as important to the history of Jews in America, by the anti-Semitic pronouncements of many of the gentile participants, and by the self-conscious understanding of Jewish participants and observers. The Jewish involvement in influencing immigration policy in the United States is especially noteworthy as an aspect of ethnic conflict. Jewish involvement has had certain unique qualities that have distinguished Jewish interests from the interests of other groups favoring liberal immigration policies. Throughout much of this period, one Jewish interest in liberal immigration policies stemmed from a desire to provide a sanctuary for Jews fleeing from anti-Semitic persecutions in Europe and elsewhere. Anti-Semitic persecutions have been a recurrent phenomenon in the modern world beginning with the Czarist persecutions in 1881, and continuing into the post-World War II era in the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe. As a result, liberal immigration has been a Jewish interest because 'survival often dictated that Jews seek refuge in other lands' (Cohen 1972, p. 341). For a similar reason, Jews have consistently advocated an internationalist foreign policy for the United States because 'an internationally-minded America was likely to be more sensitive to the problems of foreign Jewries' (Cohen 1972, p. 342). However, in addition to a persistent concern that America be a safe haven for Jews fleeing outbreaks of anti-Semitism in foreign countries, there is evidence that Jews, much more than any other European-derived ethnic group in America, have viewed liberal immigration policies as a mechanism of ensuring that America would be a pluralistic rather than a unitary, homogeneous society (e.g., Cohen 1972). Pluralism serves both internal (within-group) and external (between-group) Jewish interests. Pluralism serves internal Jewish interests because it legitimates the internal Jewish interest in rationalizing and openly advocating an interest in Jewish group commitment and non-assimilation, what Howard Sachar (1992, p. 427) terms its function in 'legitimizing the preservation of a minority culture in the midst of a majority's host society.' The development of an ethnic, political, or religious monoculture implies that Judaism can survive only by engaging in a sort of semi-crypsis. As Irving Louis Horowitz (1993, 86) notes regarding the long-term consequences of Jewish life under Communism, 'Jews suffer, their numbers decline, and emigration becomes a survival solution when the state demands integration into a national mainstream, a religious universal defined by a state religion or a near-state religion.' Both Neusner (1987) and Ellman (1987) suggest that the increased sense of ethnic consciousness seen in Jewish circles recently has been influenced by this general movement within American society toward the legitimization of minority group ethnocentrism.
I have nothing but pity for those so scarred by war and hate. Who is to blame here? Everyone. In a war so deep seated in hate none are innocent and before long the streets of Jerusalem will run red with the blood of the guilty. I mourn for their losses.
What a stupid whiny Birch. Don't worry no one is crying for you. You've just hit another school and bombed a market place.
They must've killed five thousand people in those two hits if they were full but I never got the casualty count so they must've been empty after being warned Hamas was operating there and they were about to be targeted for that reason. - - - Updated - - - So let me get this straight, Jews are bad and Muslims are good?
The Holocaust 6 million, some Zionists use it as propaganda for there own ends, at least 40 million died in WW2, how about a big thank you to the people who died fighting tyranny instead of constantly whinging about how the world "did nothing". Do you think you have some kind of moral right to grief and regret for those who died in WW2, do you think only the Jews suffered? The majority of Jews live in peace within the nations of the west, they have disproved the zionist idea that Jews could not live with others. So zionists want their own country, well start acting like a western democracy rather than a rabid animal, then you might get to live in peace with your neighbours. Zionist's behave like spoiled sulky teenagers whenever anyone opposes or criticizes them. About the only hand gesture Zionists should be giving to the USA, Britain and the other countries is a big thumbs up for their support and help.
Yes, tens of millions of European white people died in WW2. Yet the Jews only talk about the holocaust.
Actually the systematic murder of six million is an indication of the need to ensure it never happens again and, given the persecution of Jews over the centuries I can see why they do. True. No greater group of them a result of systematic murder than Jews. Who is not doing this? Where on earth do you get this idea from? I believe there is no nation on earth that gets fired on by terrorists on a daily basis that does nothing about it so the "live in peace with your neighbors" comment is rather silly.
So since half of a peoples were systematically murdered they shouldn't speak of it or remember it? Incredible. At the moment, less than one two thousandth of a percent of Palestinians are used as fodder by Hamas and people here on this forum are crying like it was the crime of the century.
Why do you say that they must have been empty? Who warned them they were about to be targeted? The UN already told the IDF where the UN centers are, so why bomb it? And if its full of some thousands of Hamas fighters then theres no room for Hamas. They were more likely on another street. Therefore the IDF is to blame for those deaths; One cannot praise the precision of IDF weapons in built up areas then avoid blame when those weapons kill innocents. The difference between us is that I view both sides as having the right to defend themselves, you, taking a more evil and bigoted position, view Gazans, being squatters, as only having the right to die. - - - Updated - - - Um,,, not really. Far more Palestinians have died than that and there are no mass market American movies being made on the subject.
penny wise pound foolish. that money comes back to the US in the form of arms purchases, technological exchange, joint weapons testing under combat conditions, intell sharing and much more. Its actually money well spent.
Let me get this straight. Israel takes the money we give them and -because they spend it on arms to commit war crimes- it's somehow money well spent? I suppose we bought the weapons that sunk the USS Liberty too, as well as giving you the money to give back to us for reparations. By your logic that was wise use of money too. Technological exchange, and intel sharing? Really? Are you referring to the Pollard incident? That kind of 'sharing'? How is that in any way a good deal for us?
They buy the arms from the United States. It appears you are woefully ignorant of the dimensions of US/Israeli relations, despite having such strong opinions of same. AS for spying, I guess the Israelis have just taken their lead from the US.
Because if they were full the death toll would ahve been in the thousands. Hamas uses places like that to fire and store rockets. Thought you were aware of this as UNWRA explained this themselves. They don't have to be in the place they can be nearby to make it a viable target or, have their stuff stored there as we know they frequently do. More likely Hamas who changes an entire civilian environment into a War Zone. Certainly can, no other nation on earth has shown this amount of care in pinpoint targeting. Hamas for example just knows their missiles will land in a civilian area, Israel gets them far more close to the intended target than any other military. I don't view terrorism as a viable defense of anything, you do. That makes you able to justify terrorism and actually believe it is a viable defense. Deliberately targeting a civilian is not a defense of any kind. Correct, I just did the math and of 6 million Palestinians, one percent is 6,000. Of nine million Jews pre Nazi era six million dead is 75%
Only if the building were obliterated. Maybe it does, that doesnt make targetting it when you are warned ahead of its occupation by innocents. They're being nearby doesnt make the UN refugee centre a legitimate target at all. Thats ridiculous, cowardly and evil of you to say so. Ridiculous, self defence isnt turning a city into a war zone. The Warsaw ghetto defended itself, as did Stalingrad, as did Berlin. Churchill planned to make every element of Britiain into a battleground. Stop talking cowardly crap. Rubbish, the allies in Afghanistan, the UK in Northern Ireland. Hamas bombs can land anywhere, they dont know. Israelis know their bombs exactly where their bombs will land and how much damage theyll do. They will kill many civilians, they accept that - you do to. Yes you do, you view Israeli caused casulaties as acceptabe to you. And tunnels and unguided rockets are not terrorism. 50 IDF soldiers have been killed so far. Thats not terrorism, to label it such is just cowardice. Youve just said if Hamas are nearby then its ok to bomb a UN refugee centre that holds people in it, just in case their might be some weapons in it. Thereby youre justifying terrorism. Um no someone else killed these Jewish from europe, the number of total Palestinians killed over the period of the conflict is far higher than the current number killed recently.
When you know Hamas is using it to hide their stuff or themselves in, near or around and warn the people ahead of the attack to get out it is. A vacant building being used by Hamas is a viable target. Hamas is using these places and, you and your like minded posters all verify this fact quite eloquently by stating that there is no other place for Hamas to use as a base of terrorism which you are so fond of stating is 'defense' so while ty may at some point be populated, prior to the attacks the people are warned it will be hit so anybody still remaining in or near is on their own. Wondering, what and how does it being brave or cowardly enter into any sort of factual discussion? Also, wondering why you believe that terrorism is not evil? I don't recall Churchill using London as a fire base to launch attacks against German civilians and the Jews of Warsaw certainly didn't fire missiles at German school children so your comparisons are ridiculous. "Colonel Richard Kemp, former Commander of British Forces in Afghanistan, spoke in 2011 about Israeli operations in the Gaza War. He said that a study published by the United Nations showed "that the ratio of civilian to combatant deaths in Gaza was by far the lowest in any asymmetric conflict in the history of warfare" Deliberately targeting civilians is terrorism under any and all definitions of terrorism. Weapons being used by terrorists are viable targets. I never stated killing of soldiers is terrorism. It is not. No I did not. I stated that it is fine to target a civilian structure that is, has or will be used by terrorists if care to ensure as much as possible that civilian casualties are minimized if taken. And terrorists and their munitions are a military target by any standard thereby making your claim that an attack on them is terrorism foolish and false. Your number is ......?
As Jonsa just mentioned, apparently with you <ignorance is bliss> the USS Liberty was not sunk, it managed to go to Malta for repairs and from there went home to the US... (1)Interchange of moneys with the US was a formal paper exchange the money does not come physically to Israel. (2) The moneys goes to defray the importation of things that Israel does not build, i.e. Airplane motors and such. (3) Israel never begged for money, it was a US suggestion. Israel turned to be the most beautiful, unsinkable airplane carrier and the arsenal for the US. As Jonsa just mentioned there was a quid pro quo . As for Pollard he was framed and punished... All he did was to advise Israel about the missiles in Syria and Iraq. A lot of stories came from Jew Haters that he sold information to the Russians etc., that ended to be a fallacy. Israel can survive on its own... you have to believe what I say for it would take a long time to explain.
The aid to Israel benifits everybody Palestinians included as it amounts to about 3% of the Israeli GDP with spending conditions that benefit the US as a return in exchange for first class intelligence, state of the art weapons and computer improvements and equipment, battle test weapons systems, an entire front in the ME that doesn't require a complex of set defense agreements with blowback potential or a carrier group to sit outside it's borders threatening it for fear of causing regional strife and providing what Haig said was "Israel is the largest American aircraft carrier in the world that cannot be sunk, does not carry even one American soldier, and is located in a critical region for American national security." and in return, Israel has to allow the US to place a collar on it so it can't do what it wants to do and defend itself properly. Without the US placing a muzzle on Israel the Palestinians would have been given no other option than to make peace as their capability to make war would be non existent as their supporters would be long dead.
Not if people are sheltering in it. The UN centres are checked by the UN themselves and the Gazans living there have nowhere else to go. The UN also warns the IDF of the presence of people in it and whatsmore the UN centre was not required to evacuate because, as a UN centre, it was already agreed as a place of shelter for Gazans. So you dont have a leg to stand on in jusitying its shelling. That holds true for building generally, but not UN centres. Because you wouldnt accept what is being done to Palestinians either, you wouldnt even accept Zionism. Thats why your position is cowardly and evil. Further your previous definition of Palestinians as squatters tells us about your lack of morality. As for terrorism, its no more evil than indiscriminate shelling of people. Of mass punishment, or ethnic cleansing, or occupation and settlement. The fact that you think these things are less evil is proof you have no moral compass whatsoever. Interesting, I recall Churchill being quite willing to carpet bomb cities. The Jews of warsaw, fought within a city, thereby putting other people nearby at risk - you forget that, it seems, because your bigotry outweighs your pro-zionist feeling. Either way, like your 'squatters' comments, its proof of your immaturity, ignorance and the cowardice of your position. Good old Richard Kemp, and whats the source of this study? Go on back something up for a change. The rockets have no targetting capability. Every time Hamas has been able to kill IDF through tunnels rather than moving on to kill civilians through tunnels it has done so. Israelis have the worlds best technology in targetting yet hundreds of civilians have died. Israelis, who dont mind punishing or expelling masses of people and who have committed numerous atrocities before, are therefore terrorists, and youre an apologist for terror. Then you admit Hamas's defence of Gaza by attacking its soldiers is not terrorism. Good for you. No I stated that attacking people is terrorism. Epecially if you have the most accurate weapons, and are warned about the presence of people. If youre warned that people are there, and still attack because you think there are also munitions there - then youre a terrorist. Thousands at least since 1948. How do you justify that by saying its not as big as 6 million Jews?
So in effect we buy arms from ourselves and give them to Israel. The Israelis then commit war crimes with those weapons. You have yet to explain how this is a bargain for the US. Not really. I just don't try to put a positive spin on an inherently destructive relationship. Israel is not a friend of the US. They have spied on the US. They have committed acts of war on the US. Those are not the actions of friends. Israel is a highly militarized and very nationalistic country. It is interesting to note that these are the salient characteristics of Fascism. I'm pretty sure the US should be frowning on Fascist countries, not arming them. Speaking of being misinformed, you should be aware Pollard's story broke in the eighties. That would be Israel breaking new ground in their relationship with the US, not taking the US's lead.
thousands of Palestinians killed in Gaza. 50 Israelis killed. no wonder the Israelis get less sympathy.
