Guilty or not guilty?

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Bowerbird, Aug 2, 2014.

  1. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    91,871
    Likes Received:
    73,626
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Stumbled on the story of Renisha McBride - a 19 year old girl shot dead while looking for help

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/expert-talks-about-cut-on-renisha-mcbrides-hand/

    So we know this unarmed young woman was in a car accident before coming to the house, we know she was probably drunk but was she so in the wrong that she deserved to be shot?
     
  2. Small Town Guy

    Small Town Guy Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    Messages:
    4,294
    Likes Received:
    354
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Nope, gotta call stupid, stupid. I see no evidence from the media reports that the homeowner was under imminent threat of death or great bodily harm....If a jury sees fit to find guilt I have no issues with it from what I see reported by the news media. Now....
    Guilty or not guilty

    http://gunssavelives.net/self-defen...invader-who-assaulted-his-72-year-old-mother/
    I await your response
     
  3. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    91,871
    Likes Received:
    73,626
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Could the son have defended his mother some other, less lethal way - probably, Was a gun needed? I have to ask why are they NOT needed in Australia and England

    If they are so necessary why are we not seeing the SAME stories here but with tragic outcomes?

    Oh! And one day I will take time out to prove that at least some of what is on gunsaveslives is pure fiction
     
  4. Small Town Guy

    Small Town Guy Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    Messages:
    4,294
    Likes Received:
    354
    Trophy Points:
    83
    This is gonna be a fun thread.
    Guilty or not guilty...come on y'all vote.
    http://gunssavelives.net/blog/polic...ter-without-a-doubt-i-believe-he-saved-lives/
    Here is another, Guilty or not guilty
    http://gunssavelives.net/self-defen...me-invaders-killing-1-to-save-his-girlfriend/
    One more for today
    Guilty or not guilty...
    http://gunssavelives.net/self-defen...ot-intruder-as-granddaughter-hides-in-closet/
    I expect honest answers based on laws of self defense not emotional fluff. If you believe a person was or was not under imminent threat of death or great bodily harm please substantiate your response as I did to BB's first question. Thanks for the thread BB
     
  5. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    91,871
    Likes Received:
    73,626
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female

    You have not answered why we do not see the same stories here and elsewhere but with tragic consequences??? Maybe because many of these so called home invasions are drug raids by warring cartels??

    Here the vast majority of home invasions ARE drug related
     
  6. smevins

    smevins New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2013
    Messages:
    6,539
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Not sure her being in an accident hours earlier justified her pounding on the person's door and windows. That said, the homeowner should not have shot unless she was coming through a door or window, so I would be inclined to convict him but give him a lenient sentence.
     
  7. Small Town Guy

    Small Town Guy Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    Messages:
    4,294
    Likes Received:
    354
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I don't know BB, can you tell me if there was a less lethal way? Was a gun needed? At least give me a guilty or not guilty, eh!

    Why are you moving the goal posts? You posted a story about a case in the US and now you are adding Australia, If you want a guilty or not guilty about Australia make one...I assume you were speaking of the US so lets keep it in perspective. :wink:

    I surely wish you would take the time now to prove that at least any of what gunssavelives posts is pure fiction...I guess that is kinda hard when the website just quotes local news web sites and provides links so you can get the complete story.....maybe you could go after all those local web sites and prove them liars. Good luck and thanks for the thread!
     
  8. Small Town Guy

    Small Town Guy Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    Messages:
    4,294
    Likes Received:
    354
    Trophy Points:
    83
    We're not talking about Australia, you post was limited to the US, as if you wanted to incriminate US thinking....again if you want a thread about guilty not guilty in OZ start a new thread...at least have the courtesy to stay with your original posts intentions.

    I in particular don't really care about OZ.
     
  9. Unifier

    Unifier New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2010
    Messages:
    14,479
    Likes Received:
    531
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Oh, give me a break. What does it take for you to admit that it's okay to kill someone in self defense? You wouldn't even use lethal force to stop someone from beating up your own elderly mother? Do you even love your mother at all? Look at how judgmental you're being toward the guy who saved his mother's life. You're more concerned about how he went about it than whether or not he successfully protected her. That says a lot to me about your priorities. You seem to be more concerned about the safety of the attacker than the safety of the elderly woman.

    There's a difference between being a pacifist and being a hoplophobe. A rational pacifist recognizes when it's time to put the idealism away and do what's necessary. A hoplophobe will always seek any and every excuse never to ever shoot somebody under any circumstances. With this post, I think you've officially raised your flag to show us where you stand.
     
  10. stjames1_53

    stjames1_53 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2012
    Messages:
    12,736
    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    0
    better roll up your sleeves and get after it....................you have a lot of work ahead of you..............prove it now!!!!!
     
  11. Regular Joe

    Regular Joe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2013
    Messages:
    3,758
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Give it up BB! You don't live here!
    I was half inclined to side with you on the OP. I would have met those people with a Glock and a cell phone. I would not hesitate one microsecond to use either one, as the situation required in real time. I can save your life, or I can take your life. This is a condition that applies ONLY to FREE MEN. You are voluntarily excluded. Therefore what we do here is NONE of YOUR business.
     
  12. stjames1_53

    stjames1_53 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2012
    Messages:
    12,736
    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    0
    subjects and peasants don't need guns
     
  13. Greataxe

    Greataxe Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2011
    Messages:
    9,400
    Likes Received:
    1,348
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Stupid is as stupid does.

    The girl was drunk and driving by her own choice in the middle of the night. Her departed soul bears full responisibility for her own demise.

    Guilty.
     
  14. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,760
    Likes Received:
    180
    Trophy Points:
    63
    No, of course not.

    Who considered it a bright idea for that trigger happy numbskull to be given gun licence?
     
  15. Small Town Guy

    Small Town Guy Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    Messages:
    4,294
    Likes Received:
    354
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Who gets to decide before a person purchases a gun if they are a "trigger happy numbskull"? Is there some sort of agency that you would trust to decide prior to someone doing a numbskull thing that they can't have an object of taking another's life? That is a scary thought right there! I also agree, she didn't deserve to be shot.
     
  16. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,488
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No, the prosecution is right, "he could have kept the front door closed and called police.", which is the first thing he should have done.
     
  17. SMDBill

    SMDBill Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2013
    Messages:
    2,715
    Likes Received:
    260
    Trophy Points:
    83
    No, of course she didn't deserve to be shot. Even gun advocates understand that they're to be used when faced with imminent danger of harm or death. Standing on the other side of a locked door from someone beating repeatedly on the glass and door(s) is not an imminent threat. It's a threat of danger to some degree, based on time of morning and the persistence of the woman, but in no way was his life threatened. Common sense says that while you have the upper hand (armed, access to a phone, and aimed at the potential threat), call 911 even if you just dial and leave the phone off the hook. And stay prepared to defend yourself. But until the threat materializes, it's just a potential threat and not deserving of action being taken with a weapon.

    Gun ownership carries a lot of responsibility and this guy failed. He fired on someone who was not an imminent threat to his safety or his life.
     
  18. stjames1_53

    stjames1_53 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2012
    Messages:
    12,736
    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    0
    you don't need a license to have a gun in your home........just shows ya what a subject knows about Liberty

    - - - Updated - - -

    res ipsa loquitor....you weren't there, you have no idea what really happened. You are merely projecting
     
  19. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2013
    Messages:
    16,248
    Likes Received:
    3,012
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And you were there to know that he could have defended in a less lethal way?

    Do you even know what happened? The attacker (Ben Beaudoin) did one home invasion:

    "Beaudoin broke a door lock and entered a home about 5:20 a.m. in the 4200 block of Hwy. 53. Homeowner Neil Reller grabbed a shotgun and struggled with Beaudoin, striking the intruder on the head several times with the gun so hard that the stock broke off the weapon."​

    Then drove to his second victims house, where he attacked the 78 year old woman and beat her head into the floor, when her son came into the room Beaudoin attacked him.

    And you think the son should have done......what? Fought with a younger, bigger, enraged man, knowing that his life and his mothers life were at stake? Talked the man into leaving quietly? What would you have the victims do?


    You probably have the same stories, based on AUS crime statistics I guess even more than in the US on a per capita basis.

    But in AUS, when someone like Beaudoin invades a home, instead of a case of assault and a criminal being killed it probably ends as 2 victims being beaten and in the hospital, the criminal goes on to a third house and repeats the crimes, etc. To some Australians, its only a tragic outcome if there are guns, a few severe beatings and a rape or two don't count as tragic.

    That's going to be hard since gunsaveslives stories include links to media reports. There are probabaly a few factual mistakes but I doubt the basic theme of a story is wrong
     
  20. OrlandoChuck

    OrlandoChuck Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2013
    Messages:
    6,002
    Likes Received:
    1,313
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Of course she didn't "deserve" to be shot.... that is evident because he is has been charged.
     
  21. SMDBill

    SMDBill Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2013
    Messages:
    2,715
    Likes Received:
    260
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I know she was unarmed and had not entered the house. When one cannot ascertain if a threat is a deadly threat or not, how do they choose to fire? I'm a gun advocate. I am not an anti-gunner in any way shape or form. But reality and common sense say you only fire on a known threat. She was beating on doors and windows. How could you make the stretch, even in darkness, that she posed an imminent threat to his safety from outside the home? Whether I'm projecting or not, he crossed the line a gun owner should never cross. You never fire upon an unknown target without confirming it as a threat. His life was not yet in imminent danger when he fired.
     
  22. stjames1_53

    stjames1_53 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2012
    Messages:
    12,736
    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The intent of the statement wasn't to justify what he did. The anti-gun nutter crowd would love nothing better than to whip this thing up into a piranha feeding fest.
    He'll pay the price for what he's done, that is not a disagreement. But that is another weak and vain "logical reason" to abolish lawful ownership. Instead of blaming the person pulling the trigger, they want to blame and punish the entirety.
     
  23. SMDBill

    SMDBill Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2013
    Messages:
    2,715
    Likes Received:
    260
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Yeah the ban talk gets old and every crime seems to get noted here with a tone of "if we didn't have guns this wouldn't happen," without much regard for the same applying to cars causing deaths, knives, hammers, baseball bats, bridge jumping, poison and so many other tools that are also effective at killing when in the wrong hands. I'm with you on blaming the culprit, not the tool.
     
  24. Regular Joe

    Regular Joe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2013
    Messages:
    3,758
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    48
    From the little shreds of story I see here, the girl was literally hysterical to get help. I can understand her frenzied efforts.
    I can understand that the shooter was jangled by the banging on his doors and windows. He had no way of knowing if she had twenty seven robbers with her or not. I'll stick with my plan of a Glock and a cell phone. It's a lot more sensible to yell through a door than to shoot through it...
     
  25. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    91,871
    Likes Received:
    73,626
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Not moving goal posts but asking a question you have never answered - why are all of these gun defence stories American and why do we NOT see similar stories from outside America but with tragic consequences you claim will happen if guns were not used

    As for the fiction - it is well recognised that many small news operators "copy" stories from elsewhere and elsewhen to fill space - what I would also like to see is not just the initial claims made by gunssaveslives but the court outcomes - and one day, when I have time I will research to see if there is any follow up on many of those stories
     

Share This Page