Greetings All, Thank you for taking the time to consider my remarks. This article proposes that the Mideast conflict between Israel and Palestine is approaching a historic fork in the road. Down one road lies a dramatic success in which almost all the goals of all the parties are met in an irrevocable permanent manner. Down the other road lies a dramatic failure of biblical proportions. Most reading this will live to see which road is taken. The following is a proposal which offers the parties an opportunity to take the road of peace by resolving the MidEast conflict in a decisive, permanent and timely manner. To prepare ourselves for such a wonderful future, we must first pay the price of saying goodbye to a tragic past. Saying Goodbye To The Past Before we consider the solution offered below, it's important for us to be resolutely clear about what has been tried already and proven beyond not to work. As the saying goes, repeating the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of stupidity. Any benefit a reader might receive from this article will necessarily be built upon their willingness to face a well documented fact that nothing which has been tried so far over the last six decades has succeeded in resolving the MidEast conflict. Not war or threats of war, not negotiation, not a finger pointing blame game, not analysis and talk, not experts, not American mediation, not the management of captive populations, not economic development, not clever technology, not waiting and hoping things will somehow get better. None of it. None of it has worked. Despite all these endlessly repeated efforts exerted over such a long period of time by so many so capable people, Israelis still don't have the peace and security they yearn for, and the Palestinians still don't have the freedom and land they so desperately desire. Both parties may instead be careening ever closer towards an uncontrollable descent in to chaos. If a reader can squarely face the failure of all that has come before, if they can surrender the notion that repeating the same repetitive patterns over and over will somehow bring different and better results, that reader will then be on the edge of seeing a permanent peace which can satisfy the core demands of all parties to the conflict. The Path To A Real And Permanent Peace Like all peoples, the Israelis long for a durable peace, security and freedom, a safe place to raise their children and build a prosperous future. The whole point of establishing the state of Israel was to secure these worthy goals. The bad news is that such a place will never exist for Jews in the Middle East. Three major wars, multiple uprising, waves of terrorist attacks, and six decades of never ending insecurity, hostility and death prove this beyond all doubt. So much blood has been spilled, so much hatred invoked, over such a period of time, that there is now no chance of a real peace within the lifetimes of anyone currently living. In fact, the stable secure peace that Israelis seek may not exist for anyone in the entire Middle East for a century to come, as the Arab world is not only in conflict with Israel, but with itself. How will Israel create a true lasting peace with it's neighbors if those countries should dissolve in to religious, political and economic chaos, a possibility which is looking increasingly likely? Israel should not confuse a history of defeating it's neighbor's strengths with an ability to survive their very real weaknesses. The path to a permanent peace will be built upon a realistic recognition that the tragedy of Zionism is that it's a very noble goal, married to a very bad plan. A great race, led to exactly the wrong place. A very understandable mistake, made by brilliant and brave people, with a potentially catastrophic outcome. The good news is that there is an excellent solution available which could accomplish the most fundamental goals of Zionism in a breathtakingly short period of time. The good news is that the safest, most secure and prosperous place on Earth would welcome the people of Israel with open arms. The good news is that the Jewish people can find everything they've been seeking for centuries in the United States. What Is The Bottom Line? Yes, ok, I know, I'm about to lose a great many of our Israeli friends. Ok, I hear you, leaving the Holy Land will definitely not be a welcome proposal for many. But before you go, perhaps you might help us understand.... What is most important to you? - An ever threatened Jewish state eternally in conflict with it's crumbling neighbors? - Or the best peace, security and prosperity available on the planet Earth for your children? What will your grandchildren inherit from you? What is it that you want most for your descendants? What is your bottom line? Welcome To America! The people of the United States would welcome the ingenius Jews of Israel as fellow citizens. America has after all been Israel's best friend since the beginning. The American West is full of empty federal land which can be shared with the Israeli people, who would undoubtably work miracles with it. Anti-semitism is minimal in the United States, and there are already about as many Jews in the United States as there are in Israel. This prosperous Jewish population of the United States would rush to assist the new immigrants, just as they have faithfully supported the state of Israel. The billions of dollars currently spent each year on defending Israel can be reinvested in the transition and in improving the lives of Israelis of limited means. The children of Israel would no longer be required to become soldiers. This benefit alone should be enough, shouldn't it? The people of Israel would be once and for all liberated from corrupt fascist dictatorships, religious fanatics, murderous neighbors, incoming rockets, tunneling militants, the disrespect of much of the world community, and a long history of chronic discrimination, oppression, abuse and slaughter. The people of Israel would instead become welcome members of the world's oldest democracy, and citizens of the most prosperous and secure nation on Earth. Come to America Israel, there is no faster, more reliable and durable way to secure the fundamental goals of Zionism. Giving up the ancient dream of Israel will be a painful price for many without question. Peace will not come for free. We can't ignore that a true sacrifice is required. But in return for that significant sacrifice Israelis would receive the assurance that their children will not perish in the firestorm which must inevitably envelope the Middle East sooner or later if this conflict is not resolved. This peace does not require war, death and suffering to achieve. This peace does not require danger or risk. This peace does not require endlessly unsuccessful negotiations with former and current terrorists. This peace does not require trust in pieces of paper, or the promises of those who seek Israel's extermination. This peace does not make the security of Jews dependent on what their enemies do or don't do now or in the future. This peace does not require waiting. Why should Israelis wait even more generations for the Palestinians to give them peace, when they can grasp the peace they seek all by themselves right now? Come to America our Israeli friends, come to America. The Price Of Failure We should recall that population-wise Israel is smaller than New York City. While the state of Israel contains some of the world's most capable people, eight million citizens still makes for a tiny country. To complicate matters further, Arabs are outproducing Jews within Israel. This means that at some point Israelis will face a lose/lose choice between surrendering their Jewish state, or surrendering their democracy. Both of these outcomes would destroy the soul of Israel. Israel has already lost the public relations war in Europe and most other parts of the world, and is steadily losing ground in United States as well. Whether this is just and fair and right does not matter. It simply does not matter. What matters is that the Palestinians are winning the decisive public relationship battle. The same underdog sympathy which was crucial to the establishment of Israel is now being aimed at the Palestinians. And that means the people of Israel will be ever more isolated and alone within the world community as we dive deeper in to an ever more globalized 21st century. If the conflict continues endlessly, sooner or later Israel will have no friends anywhere, and 8 million Jews will fight for their survival against 200 million Arabs completely on their own. This is what losing the public relations battle inevitably entails. We might also recall that Israel's defenders have to win every single time, forever. But Israel's enemies only have to win once, just once. Each year that passes without a resolution to the MidEast conflict is like another turn of the pistol barrel in a game of Russian roulette. While Israel looks invulnerable now, change is the one thing we can always count on, and sooner or later the chamber will contain a bullet. Even the ancient story of Israel teaches us that whatever the ever brave and brilliant Jews construct, the changing tides of history can quickly sweep away. It's true for all of us. The 21st century is going to be an era of unprecedented carnage, just as previous centuries have been. Technology is racing forward at an ever accelerating rate which further empowers everybody, including the bad guys. There is little chance the great powers can do more than slow the spread of weapons of mass destruction, given that they can't even liberate themselves from those weapons. Sooner or later the murderous bad guys will get lucky and figure out how to deploy weapons of mass destruction within the tiny country of Israel, and surely other countries as well. One bad day, one miscalculation, one unlucky break, one failure one time, one push of a button, that's all it would take to push Israel in to chaos. Israel could be gone in a day, an hour, in the time it takes to read this article. Welcome to the 21st century. This is an unthinkable future, but it is coming nonetheless. The Iron Dome will not stop it from coming. The IDF can not win every single battle, forever. The Israelis can not out smart everybody, always. Nobody overcomes every single challenge from now until the end of time. I beg our Israeli friends not to confuse their amazing accomplishments of the past with an ability to manage any future which might come. Israel has too many enemies. It is too small to survive the emerging mass destruction era of the 21st century. This reality must be faced with humility if the people of Israel are to be spared a Second Holocaust. All of us across the world must surrender our hubris if we are to save our kids. While this is a grim tale indeed, all the epic suffering coming to the Middle East can be avoided. There is an abundance of good news here for anyone who wants peace, and is willing to act decisively to achieve it. The people of Israel can choose their children's future over an ancient Zionist dream. If they do, all the peace, security and prosperity they so desire and deserve can be theirs. Not maybe someday in future generations, but for sure, today. Come to America our Israeli friends, come to America. You'll never find in Israel what is already waiting for you here in America right now.
Hamas terrorists kill innocent (Rare Video) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOJKkLlih94 The impostors , false, fake and fraud. Dead all of a sudden move and another scratches his nose... Everything is a theatre for the gullibles, watch it yourself. www.youtube.com/embed/xnjFFY4z8fk?feature=player_embedded
Right. Forget that the Arabs declared war on Israel and Palestinians still have yet to make peace Right. So the Palestinians are now going to renounce violence. Correct, Palestinians have yet to renounce violence. Correct as Palestinians will not renounce violence. Not really as Israel is getting on with their loves and taking out the capacity for Palestinians to do them harm so it is the Palestinians who rightfully suffer for their unwillingness to renounce violence. Agreed. Terrorism and violence has gotten the Palestinians nowhere. Right, in the land of their ancestors and ethnic cultural past. Strange, they are a thriving nation complete with everything the US has save in smaller quantities. Agreed. The Arab world will know no peace until they stop being at war with themselves. The can take them out one by one or all at once. This has been proven time and time again. Actually you have it backwards as Israel would demnd too much money to get up and move whereas the Arabs are lining up around the block in front of every US Embassy the ME on a daily basis to move to the US for nothing. So, better idea is to get all the Arabs to move out and leave the ME in peace as this will help the Arab Nations not to self destruct as you say. To move an Israeli to set up a new life complete with compensation for what they have now would cost probably a million per person on average but as I said earlier Arabs are willing to move to the US for free so, the cheaper more realistic way is to move the Palestinians out of their tents and rubble to the US or any country that will take them.
The very grim reality that the partisan backers of the Israeli's and the partisan backers of the Palestineans refuse to acknowledge: Both Israeli's and Palestinians live where they live. Israel is home to Israeli's, Palestine is home to Palestinians. A solution has to be found that includes both sides accepting that.
I totally disagree... they should all be transferred to the 21 Arab countries created this past century for their Self-Determination... Exchange of Population has already several precedents between i.e. India and Pakistan and very many places likeTurkey and Greece, Poland Czechoslovakia, the Balkan etc., Gaza should be bulldozed and given to the "Club Mediterranee" they will turn this into the best International summer resort ever.
That is as partisan blind as the OP. There is as much and as little rational to remove Israeli's or remove Palestinians. Your post- and the OP- are part of the problem- not solutions.
Palestine has been the home of Arabs for several thousand years... I don't think they would leave willingly.
I have dedicated All MY life TO TRANSFER... If this is not a solution for you, it is definitely one for me. I live here, this is now purgatory that is liable to turn into hell...
Once again the exaggeration denude of any substantiation. The Muslims came here on the seventh century made a physical presence, then left for there was nothing for them to gain. - - - Updated - - - No sir, Palestine is ISRAEL period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Then you have wasted your life in pursuit of a policy that is as wrong as what the OP suggested. And as fruitless. Neither Israeli's or Palestinians are leaving their home. - - - Updated - - - I am rather expecting to hear you telling us your FINAL solution to the 'Palestinian' problem.
No final solution, just an honest one. The minorities of Israel are 1/5 of the population. The group that peeves me the most are those Arabs that came at the wake of the Jordanian Legion led by UK officers in 1948. They are approximately 800,000 these should be repatriated, and the moment this is done the rest of the Arab national wish would be reduced by 800,000 and would be less vociferous since this will take the wind out of Nationalistic sail. We Have Israeli Arabs that have sworn allegiance to the State of Israel, flaunt their Israeli Passports, are represented in the Knesset, vote and even serve in the IDF. Gaza Arabs is a problem that will solve itself the moment Hamas is out of the picture.
Agreed. Forget all that. Thinking about it for 60+ years has not brought the people of Israel the peace and security they want and deserve. Instead, look for ways to secure that peace for Israelis that don't depend on anybody else. Palestinians, Palestinians, Palestinians, Palestinians, chanting these words for decades has not brought peace and security to the people of Israel. Neither has peaceful political dialog. Um, their children are required to serve in the army, and they are repeatedly required to engage in war, killing and death. US children are not so required. I want for them what we already have. Good luck moving 200 million Arabs, and the Persians too. This is the kind of idea that sounds clever on forums, but does not provide peace and security to the people of Israel. Given that no country including the US wants to take them, you have just made Israel security dependent on the Palestinians and something that is never going to happen. Let's talk again when you're more interested in finding peace and security for the Israeli people than you are the endless blame game which has never led to peace.
Actually they are thinking how not to have to kill the Arabs who attack them. If it was peace at any cost that cost will be a lot of Arab lives but peace it will be. Who on earth is chanting that? Palestinians have no intention of making peace, they are just trying to get back what they lost by attempting to destroy Israel and start over again trying to destroy Israel. It's in their official charters. Um, about half of Israelis are required to serve. And, they have what you have in their own homeland. 200 million? Try more like the population of Gaza, the West Bank and a portion of Lebanon which is about two and a half million Muslims. The rest of the Arab world is a peace with Israel for the most part. Any or all of them will move for a buck or two compared to the million USD it would take an Israeli to do so. Far more expedient and, they deserve a homeland free of Islamo fascist crud so better for them to move and, far far more cheaper. Let's talk again when you get the money figured out as it is far cheaper to move seven million Arabs who only have rubble and a donkey with no job and dependent on UN checks rather than five million people making a hundred thousand a year with a couple of cars in the driveway who can destroy their enemies at will if push comes to shove.
Sides, people are harping on to no end about how the Palestinians homes are destroyed and all whereas Israelis have homes that are intact so, it only makes sense to move the Palestinians and give them all new homes in the US.
More blame game, proven to accomplish nothing. Most of those who support Israel, including yourself. Read your own posts, arabs, arabs, arabs, palestinians, palestinians, palestinians. My point is that the people of Israel are better secured by forgetting all about everybody else, and solving the security problem unilaterally, without dependence upon what any arab does or doesn't do. An obstacle to that is that many people have become so addicted to talking about arabs that they don't want to give that up. Palestinians, Palestinians, Palestinians etc. The dictatorships in those countries are not currently attacking Israel. The people of the arab world hate Israel, so any peace that exists is temporary. Except that nobody else wants them or will accept them. The longer you beat this drum, the longer the Israeli people are insecure.
Hardly, you were stating what Israelis are thinking and I simply added to your contention. I don't chant them so, please explain for all of us and back it up with fact rather than a silly contention who is chanting this. They can do that simply by killing all the Arabs who threaten them with no need to move anywhere. I thought you didn't wish to play the blame game and here you are doing it. In response to your playing the blame game yet again. So they, in your misinformed opinion should move simply because somebody might, not actually doesn't but may in the future not like them. I doubt moving to the other end of the universe will settle this with any kind of security and someday another person or nation may set up shop there and they too might not like them and then it's moving day yet again. Proof that nobody wants them please and while you are at it, proof that a broad segment of the US population has or would give the green light to allow five million Israelis to set up their own country and nation in the US. Oh, and who is going to pay the million dollars per person to effect this move. And, when you come up with no study to indicate this then go back to square one and opt for the more logical move - hostile Arabs who have a tent or a destroyed house who would welcome the opportunity to move the hell out of their craphole and, would do it for one quarter the money.
The word you're trying to use here is "prove", not "proof". Here's why this will be my last reply to you... I made no such proposal. You are arguing with assertions of your own invention. I hope you enjoy debating yourself, and I hope you win. Good luck!
So your "solution" is to erase Israel from the map and move all the jews to America? Apoparently you are not aware of what the jewish homeland means to the jews. Given the amount of blood and treasure the jews have spent in establishing and protecting their homeland, do you really think that surrendering and becoming american is a viable solution? Seriously?
Thank you for your comment Jonsa. My solution is that all those Israeli Jews who are serious about providing durable peace and security to their children are invited to find that very thing right now in America. No more waiting, no more fighting, no more dying and killing, no more depending on one's enemies to give one peace. Please note that your use of the words "erase" and "move" is hyperbolic. In my suggestion, nobody is erasing or moving anything but the Jews themselves. I have not proposed that some outside party "erase Israel off the map" or "move the Jews", or anything of the sort, for the record. My impression has always been that the whole point of creating the state of Israel was to find a safe and secure place where Jews would be liberated from centuries of violence perpetrated against them. I see the state of Israel as a means to that end. What seems to have happened is that many people have become distracted by the means, and forgotten what the desired end has long been, protecting Jews. And so they focus on the state of Israel, ignoring the fact that it is smack dab in the middle of one of the most dangerous parts of the world, and after 60 years Jews are still not safe and secure there. That is, they ignore that this particular means does not accomplish the desired end. Look, this is simple. It's as if I said that what matters to me most is peace and security for my family, and then I move my family to the worst part of town. It's not a crime, just a mistake that's all, and we all make them. First, please note that you've offered no alternative solution which might bring a durable peace to the Jewish people. This is completely normal, as it seems almost everyone is content to sit back and lazily complain about other people's proposals without offering one of their own. What this procedure really is is an argument for continuing the status quo, which I remind you is sixty years of continual conflict. Second, whether my proposal is "surrendering" depends on why one is in Israel. If one's goal is peace and security for the Jewish people, then my proposal is not a surrender, but a huge leap forward towards accomplishing that goal. If one's goal is to grab a particular peace of land and hang on to it no matter what, then yes, my proposal is a surrender of that goal. The problem is that many Israelis have been persuaded by their leaders that they can have their cake and eat it too. That is, they have come to think that they can kill and control their neighbors in order to grab a piece of land, and somehow have durable peace and security too. PLEASE NOTE: I'm NOT arguing who is right and who is wrong in the conflict. So please spare me all these arguments, I'm not interested. I AM arguing that it's simply not going to be possible for the Jews to have both the land and the peace. Whether this is right or wrong, or fair or unjust does not matter. What matters is that over the long run these two goals, land and peace, are incompatible. If Israeli Jews choose peace, they can have it now in America, the conflict is permanently over, and all parties to that conflict will be in a much better situation than they are now. If Israeli Jews choose land, the conflict will endlessly continue, and sooner or later result in an explosion which destroys everybody's land, and so nobody on any side will reach any of their goals. This is what I'm attempting to avoid with my proposal. The best way to defeat and debunk my proposal is to come up with a better one. As example, if anyone can identify a country that would be willing to give Israel a nice piece of land far from any conflict, then Israeli Jews could have both peace and a state. That would be great, a big improvement on my plan. I would happily discard my proposal and stop arguing for it if anyone can credibly identify such a generous country who would be willing to participate. I'm sorry to report I seriously doubt America is such a country. Welcome Israelis as American citizens, yes. Give Israelis a chunk of American territory for a new state, no. Again this has nothing to do with right and wrong, or fair and unfair. I'm just reporting on the political reality I see here in America, that's all.
You said "the people of the United States would welcome the ingenius Jews of Israel as fellow citizens. America has after all been Israel's best friend since the beginning." So, have you a study showing five million Israelis can move to the US or not and, in your last post when I said it would be far more economical and, since many hostile Arab homes are rubble anyhow, to move those Arabs instead of the Israelis you said about the international view of Arabs; "Except that nobody else wants them or will accept them. " So it seems you have said that the US wants five million Israelis but not Arabs and, in the interest of factual discussion I asked for proof of this which, you seem determined to avoid providing at all costs. As well, you have yet to address the financial aspect as Israel is a fully developed industrial nation complete with factories, highways, bridges, ports, telecommunication systems as well as cultural and religious sites that will have to be sold, dismantled or reimbursed for. I put out the lowball figure of a million per Israeli but it's probably double or more, will you explain why it is not more realistic to move peoples out of rubble who have no factories and i frastrure than to attempt to recreate an entire first world nation in the deserts of Texas for example?
The word you want here is "infrastructure" not "i frastrure". I've said nothing about recreating a first world nation in the deserts of Texas. You are AGAIN arguing against proposals of your own invention. Drew, I have nothing against you personally, but your writing and thinking on this topic does not rise to the level of meriting an ongoing response. You're on your own here buddy, have fun.
That's ok, it's obvious you cannot support your contentions with anything remotely factual nor can you provide even a fantasy economic idea as how this could be carried out and won't even tell us why the Jews should give up their ethnic and ancestral homeland rather than the hostile Arabs who would do it for a so g in comparison. Oh BTW, somebody forgot to dot an 'i' in the entertainment forums, better get down there to attend to it - and take your unsupported trash with you and work on it prior to returning.
For the record, if you move the jews out of Israel, it will cease to exist as a nation, hence it is erased from the map. You miss perhaps the most important point of the desire for a jewish homeland. If the jews moved to america they would be a small yet influential minority EXACTLY like they have been for thousands of years in Europe and the Middle East. They would not be in control of their own destiny and defence. They were persecuted in many of the nations they resided in. They will never be persecuted in the nation of Israel. Jews from around the world will always find shelter in Israel and not be dependent on the goodwill or usually lack thereof of others. I do not argue for the status quo and never have. there is no easy solution to this conflict. Personally I am in favour of land swaps, resource sharing, removal of the vast majority of "settlements", a workable physical link between gaza and WB, complete demilitarization of palestine, security co-operation between Israel and palestine, and all the other aspects of two peoples attempting to wage peace. Now if only there was a couple tons of trust to be had. Totally missed the point. two words say it all for why the jews fought to establish the nation of Israel - NEVER AGAIN! I totally understand that the notion of right or wrong is not interesting to you. I am not at all surprised that you do not understand what Israel is all about and what it means to the vast majority of jews on the planet. I am also not surprised that you think that it is the Israeli's mere presence that fuels this conflict. I am also not surprised that you think nothing of capitulating to terrorists in the interests of "peace". I am also not surprised that you have not considered the economic costs of removing the jews and where exactly that money will come from.
The answer of all of this is the latest circulars of <Americans for a safe Israel> also called <AFSI> Go there www.facebook.com/AmericansForASafeIsrael http://www.afsi.org/
