Rift widens between Obama, US military over strategy to fight Islamic State

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by BroncoBilly, Sep 19, 2014.

  1. BroncoBilly

    BroncoBilly Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2004
    Messages:
    29,824
    Likes Received:
    355
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I guess when you are a community organizer and an accomplished teleprompter reader, what on earth are those military generals doing trying to give military advise to Obama the all knowing.

    http://www.smh.com.au/world/rift-wi...y-to-fight-islamic-state-20140920-10jmt8.html

    Retired Marine General James Mattis, who served under Obama until last year, became the latest high-profile sceptic on Thursday, telling the House Intelligence Committee that a blanket prohibition on ground combat was tying the military's hands. "Half-hearted or tentative efforts, or airstrikes alone, can backfire on us and actually strengthen our foes' credibility," he said. "We may not wish to reassure our enemies in advance that they will not see American boots on the ground."
     
  2. nra37922

    nra37922 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2013
    Messages:
    13,118
    Likes Received:
    8,506
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Obama as CIC, what an unfortunate joke on our country :roflol:
     
  3. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    73,644
    Likes Received:
    13,766
    Trophy Points:
    113
    My favorite uncle was a Marine Air Corps senior officer much decorated with multiple tours in Korea, Vietnam and the Pentagon and he thought the same way. He was a hammer and every problem was a nail.
     
  4. Elcarsh

    Elcarsh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    2,636
    Likes Received:
    396
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Is really an ex-marine general the optimal judge of the diplomatic and geopolitical ramifications of a particular overall strategy?

    I'm sure he was good at his job, but his job had nothing to do with deciding whether or not it's a good idea politically and diplomatically to invade a nation that has quite recently violently opposed US occupation.
     
  5. BroncoBilly

    BroncoBilly Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2004
    Messages:
    29,824
    Likes Received:
    355
    Trophy Points:
    83
    My experience being in the military with regards to strategizing against the enemy, it is way above my pay grade. These people are experts in that field, and Obama would do well to listen instead of worrying about his precious legacy and ego.
     
  6. BroncoBilly

    BroncoBilly Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2004
    Messages:
    29,824
    Likes Received:
    355
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I would take him over a community organizer any day. There is more than just one holding Obama's feet to the fire
     
  7. Elcarsh

    Elcarsh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    2,636
    Likes Received:
    396
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Based on what, exactly?

    What are his qualifications when it comes to international diplomacy and policy-making?

    What is his stance on ignoring the fact that the Iraqi government does not want the US to invade their country?
     
  8. BroncoBilly

    BroncoBilly Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2004
    Messages:
    29,824
    Likes Received:
    355
    Trophy Points:
    83
    You can be sure that he is vastly more qualified than Obama on every front.
    As far as the Iraqis wanting us there, no one is suggesting a full out invasion, and if this ISIS is not contained and eliminated, there will be no Iraq, Syria, or any other country. Do you actually think these murdering pieces of feces are just going away?
     
  9. Russ103

    Russ103 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2014
    Messages:
    7,595
    Likes Received:
    3,281
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You ruined whatever potential credibility you had for your post by saying "ex marine"
     
    AlphaOmega and (deleted member) like this.
  10. JohnnyMo

    JohnnyMo Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2011
    Messages:
    14,715
    Likes Received:
    262
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Retired Marine General is the proper title. Just an FYI
     
  11. Daily Bread

    Daily Bread New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2014
    Messages:
    917
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Everybody better drop the politics as this is a dead serious problem . I'm sure the islamics feel there reason for hating us is just . We better not underestimate them and go into this divided , give them everything we got as there will be no " strategic withdrawal " from this one . We're in it so we better win it . I don't care who takes credit for it as long as it's American credit. If Obama doesn't waver we'll win.
     
  12. smevins

    smevins New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2013
    Messages:
    6,539
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Isn't this really the same as the "Date Certain" fight in relation to Iraq? The question is really about what we should be telling our enemy that could help them come up with counter-strategics.
     
  13. Elcarsh

    Elcarsh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    2,636
    Likes Received:
    396
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Are you frequently in the habit of hinging your view of other people's credibility on political matters on their grasp of foreign military vernacular?

    Because that does seem rather petty compared to actually weighing the argument itself.
     
  14. Elcarsh

    Elcarsh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    2,636
    Likes Received:
    396
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I ask again; based on what, exactly?

    I'd like to know what his qualifications are, that you base that assessment on.

    Actually, I count at least two people in this very thread who are advocating an all out invasion, so saying that no one is suggesting that seems contrary to facts.

    No, I don't think they are going to go away, at least not anytime soon. That does not mean the US needs to increase their recruitment figures by doing exactly that which they are accusing the US of doing to other nations.
     
  15. jackson33

    jackson33 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,445
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    48

    Are you suggesting a "Community Organizer" has better idea's on how to protect the US, than the Joint Chief's or former military commanders...Gee, all that money spent on military training and we could have just enlisted these local urban advocates years ago and we would have had no problems.
     
  16. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2009
    Messages:
    34,260
    Likes Received:
    8,086
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I wouldn't support boots on the ground so long as Obama is in office. Our troops deserve better...
     
  17. AlphaOmega

    AlphaOmega Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2013
    Messages:
    28,747
    Likes Received:
    4,821
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Wait a minute, are you going to sit there and tell me a community organizer/teleprompter reader with no experience whatsoever except how to put around on a golf cart knows less than military professionals who spent their entire lives studying what to do in these very situations? Cmon now Billy, most Presidents listen to these people but King Obama doesn't need any advice at all. Isnt it obvious? Sure everything he touches turns to crap but that's just because we give a crap. Who cares about ISIS when there is a golf course out there somewhere that hasn't been played yet! Generals?? hrumph.
     
  18. Nat Turner

    Nat Turner New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    Messages:
    5,082
    Likes Received:
    58
    Trophy Points:
    0
    What rift?

    He's the boss and they'll do what he says. Pretty simple.
     
  19. Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2013
    Messages:
    25,394
    Likes Received:
    8,172
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The former commander of CENTCOM from 2008 until 2013? Yes, he's qualified to comment on the matter.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Central_Command
    - - - Updated - - -

    True. Let's hope "the boss" also owns up to his responsibility for the ramifications of his actions instead of blaming underlings. You know, like Benghazi.
     
  20. Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2013
    Messages:
    25,394
    Likes Received:
    8,172
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Please cut him and others some slack. Most have no idea what it means to serve their country in the military....including the CIC.

    That said, President Obama is the CIC and the duly elected President of this here United States. It's his call.

    General Mattis, USMC(ret), has every right as an American citizen to voice his opinion on the matter.
     
  21. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    11,132
    Likes Received:
    4,899
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I personally believe Obama should listen to his Generals on this particular issue, however, I do understand why we have a civilian President who won't and shouldn't always just do whatever the military Commanders tell him to do in regards to war. Remember these guys are military and they do have a different view on how to handle things. I'm pretty sure we would have A-bombed N Korea into the Sea of Japan if MacArthur had his way.

    Many times I do hold the mentality of let the civilians run the country and let the military fight the wars but sometimes we do need to check the military.

    But again, on this particular case I believe Obama is wrong and he needs to listen to what his Commanders are saying. But I do understand why we have this whole process of checks and balances. I have seen some very upset Commanders in theater who lost one too many troops and would start leveling Afghanistan villages if nobody told them they couldn't.
     
    Gatewood and (deleted member) like this.
  22. Nat Turner

    Nat Turner New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    Messages:
    5,082
    Likes Received:
    58
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Trite Aphorism Of The Day : The coach, not the offensive tackle, calls the plays in the Big Game.
    ........................ Nat Rockne 2014
     
  23. Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2013
    Messages:
    25,394
    Likes Received:
    8,172
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Agreed. Despite the opinions of Obama-haters, the President has listened to the military in many respects even to the point of ticking off his supporters. In this particular case, he's playing politics by walking a tight-rope. Obviously he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't with the Republicans. His advisers are telling him of the menace presented by ISIS, but politically he's vulnerable in many ways. There's an election coming again (remember September 2012?) with close races which can effect the direction of the country.

    The President of the United States has a sworn duty to serve our nation, but he's also the titular head of his own political party. All politicians are either running for election or supporting those in their party running for election. President Obama is in a that position.

    General Mattis is simply stating the unvarnished military truth with the shine of politics on it. He's a good Marine and I agree with him. Politics be damned.
     
  24. EMTdaniel86

    EMTdaniel86 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2011
    Messages:
    9,380
    Likes Received:
    4,403
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Rank
    US-O10 insignia.svg General

    Commands held
    U.S. Central Command
    U.S. Joint Forces Command

    Supreme Allied Commander Transformation
    I Marine Expeditionary Force
    U.S. Marine Forces Central Command
    Marine Corps Combat Development Command
    1st Marine Division
    7th Marine Regiment
    1st Battalion, 7th Marines
     
  25. Gatewood

    Gatewood Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2013
    Messages:
    47,624
    Likes Received:
    48,666
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well said. Personally I wouldn't trust Barack Obama to give a drink of water to a man dying of thirst without spilling the life sustaining liquid on the ground, but nonetheless it is his job as Commander-in-Chief to decide how much -- if any -- discretion military generals and admirals have in any given situation. If he wants to be an LBJ and micromanage the military, tying their hands in the process then it's on his head. History will decide what to make of him when all is said and done.
     

Share This Page