Scotland motivates Catalonias fight for independence

kathrinekennley · Sep 21, 2014

Scotlands possible separation from the United Kingdom, which was eventually rejected in a referendum, has reignited the sense of nationalism in Catalonia, Spain and their desire to become an independent nation.

Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy said he was against the separation and hoped that Catalonia didnt go rouge on Spain, as Scotland had on the U.K. The processes in Scotland and Catalonia are a torpedo to the direct waterline to the flotation device of the European spirit, he said.

Scottish expat Nick Ashley, who lives in Spain, agreed with Rajoy that Catalonia should not go down the same path. Ashley said that a possible separation between the Spanish region in the Iberian Peninsula would be less civilized than what we see happening in Scotland.

Read More: http://www.pangeatoday.com/scotland-motivates-catalonias-fight-for-independence/?orderBy=popular

waltky · Nov 9, 2014

Next thing ya know the Basque region will want it's independence...

Catalonia Holds Informal Vote on Secession From Spain
November 09, 2014 ~ Spain's northeastern region of Catalonia is holding a symbolic referendum Sunday on independence.

Spain's Constitutional Court on Tuesday ordered Catalonia to suspend the vote. However, Catalonia is pushing ahead with an informal vote with thousands of volunteers manning the voting stations.

Opinion polls indicate as many as 80 percent of the 7.5 million people in the region want more autonomy from Spain, with about 50 percent in favor of complete independence.

Pro-independence demonstrators of Catalonia and Basque Country raise their regional flags as they gather on a square to support an informal independence poll to celebrate in Catalonia, in Pamplona northern Spain

Catalonia is one of Spain's wealthiest regions. Its long-standing desire for independence has been fueled more recently by the country's deep recession over the past few years.

http://www.voanews.com/content/catalonia-holds-informal-vote-on-secession-from-spain/2513697.html
Click to expand...

Spooky · Nov 9, 2014

I think France should send a monarch to rule in Spain and unite the people.

The House of Bourbon still has descendants alive.

Ethereal · Nov 9, 2014

I think secessionist movements all over the globe will become increasingly emboldened in the coming the years as a reaction to the failure of centralization and global government. People do not want to be ruled by distant, arbitrary politicians, and they do not want their political destiny tied to millions of strangers who do not share their values and aspirations. It's time for the era of decentralization and independence to come about.

waltky · Oct 17, 2017

Spain’s top court ruled Tuesday that an independence referendum in Catalonia was unconstitutional...

Catalans protest sedition case, court declares vote illegal
October 17,`17 — Spain’s top court ruled Tuesday that an independence referendum in Catalonia was unconstitutional, adding weight to government efforts to block the region from breaking away from the rest of the country but not persuading demonstrators demanding the release of two jailed separatist activists.

The Constitutional Court’s ruling was not a surprise. The Spanish government had repeatedly insisted the referendum was illegal. Regional leaders defied the Madrid-based central government and held the Oct. 1 vote even after police seized millions of ballots and used force to close polling stations. Supporters of secession maintain the “Yes” vote won and Catalan officials have a mandate to declare independence. Portraying the central government as repressive, they showed no signs of giving up despite the court ruling that concluded the referendum was invalid. Thousands of people holding candles and banners flooded a main avenue in Barcelona on Tuesday night to demand the release of the two Catalan activists jailed by Spanish authorities on possible sedition charges a day earlier.

Jordi Sanchez and Jordi Cuixart, the leaders of grassroots organizations Catalan National Assembly and Omnium Cultural, are being investigated for organizing rallies last month that allegedly hampered a judicial probe of preparations for the secession vote. “We are facing an executive power in the state that uses the judiciary branch to block the legislative,” Catalan government spokesman Jordi Turull told reporters shortly after the Constitutional Court ruling was announced. Spanish Justice Minister Rafael Catala said Sanchez and Cuixart, were jailed because they are suspected of committed crimes by interfering with a judge’s orders. Catala rejected the term “political prisoners” to describe the two, saying it could be considered a case of “politicians in prison.”

Holding signs reading in Catalan ‘freedom’, people gather to protest against the National Court’s decision to imprison civil society leaders without bail, in Barcelona, Spain, Tuesday, Oct. 17, 2017. Protesters were gathering for a fresh round of demonstrations in Barcelona Tuesday to demand the release of two leaders of Catalonia’s pro-independence movement who were jailed in a sedition probe.

Catalan President Carles Puigdemont made an ambiguous statement about the region’s future last week, saying he has the mandate to declare independence but adding that he would not immediately move to implement it in order to allow time for talks with the central government. Spain has said that no dialogue can take place with independence on the table because a reform of the country’s Constitution with an ample majority in the national parliament is the only legal way to achieve secession. On Monday, a Madrid judge provisionally jailed Sanchez and Cuixart, leaders of different grassroots groups promoting independence for Catalonia. The judge ruled they were behind huge demonstrations Sept. 20-21 in Barcelona that got in the way of a police operation designed to prevent the referendum.

Participants in the Tuesday protest chanted, “Political prisoners, freedom.” Meanwhile, Agusti Alcoberro, the man who standing in for Sanchez as head of the Assemblea Nacional Catalana, said peaceful protests would be the local response to what he said was the Spanish government’s heavy-handed approach. “No modern state in the 21st century can survive if it bases its legitimacy on subjugating politically and dominating part of its population with the police and military,” Alcoberro told The Associated Press. “That is suicidal, and somebody should explain it to the Spanish government.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...d5f1ea-b388-11e7-9b93-b97043e57a22_story.html
Click to expand...

waltky · Oct 23, 2017

Catalonia Officials 'won't follow orders from Madrid'...

Catalonia Spain: Officials 'won't follow orders from Madrid'
Mon, 23 Oct 2017 - The warning comes as the Spanish government moves to reassert control over the region's authorities.

Catalan authorities will not follow orders from the Spanish government if Madrid moves to reassert control over the region, a senior official says. A regional government spokesman told the BBC that the central government was acting against the will of Catalans. Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy has announced plans to sack the region's government and curtail some of the powers of its parliament. The Catalan parliament will meet on Thursday to decide on its response. The pro-independence leaders could decide to formalise a unilateral declaration of independence, the BBC's Bethany Bell in Barcelona reports. The Spanish Senate is expected to approve the government's measures on Friday along with a proposal for fresh regional elections.

How did we get here?

The Catalan government, led by President Carles Puigdemont, has refused to halt an independence drive following an outlawed referendum held earlier this month. On Saturday, Mr Rajoy said he was triggering Article 155 of the constitution - an unprecedented move - which allows for direct rule to be imposed in a crisis on any of the country's autonomous regions. But Catalan leaders say they will not accept the plan. Speaking to BBC Radio 4's Today programme, foreign affairs spokesman Raul Romeva said: "How can the European Union live with that situation [if this happens]? "Because what I can tell you is that the people and the institutions in Catalonia will not let this happen." He said the Spanish government needed to recognise that the people of the region had voted for independence. The Catalan government said that of the 43% who took part in the 1 October referendum, 90% were in favour of independence. Unionist parties who won about 40% of the vote at the 2015 Catalan elections boycotted the ballot.

What happens next?

Apart from stripping Mr Puigdemont of all his powers, the central government will also seek to take control of Catalonia's police force and its public broadcaster, TV3, reports suggest. Mr Rajoy insisted the measures would not mean Catalan self-government itself was being suspended and that they were intended to remove the people who had taken illegal action. The country's Deputy Prime Minister, Soraya Sáenz de Santamaría, told Spanish radio Onda Cero (in Spanish) that Catalan leaders were "completely not in compliance with the constitution and the statute of autonomy". Once the Senate approves Article 155, Mr Puigdemont will stop receiving a salary and will not be able to carry out his functions, she added.

Pro-independence posters and graffiti in Barcelona

Catalonia's far-left CUP party - a key support for Mr Puigdemont's minority government in the regional parliament - has warned of a campaign of "massive civil disobedience" if Madrid imposes direct rule on the region. Spanish media report that the Catalan leader is planning to present his arguments to a commission of the Spanish Senate on Wednesday, but this has yet to be confirmed. There have been calls by Mr Puigdemont's supporters to declare a snap election before direct rule becomes effective. The EU has refused to back the drive for Catalan independence and said the crisis was for Spain to resolve.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41719081
Click to expand...

See also:

Catalonia independence: Spain's unfathomably delicate task
Sun, 22 Oct 2017 - The prime minister has meandered through previous crises but that won't work now, says Tom Burridge.

Spain's prime minister rarely talks in such stark language. But his message to Catalonia's devolved government, which spearheads the pro-independence movement, was blunt. He said Madrid would remove its leaders and impose direct rule. Mariano Rajoy is conservative by party, and in his political style. He has meandered his way through other crises; a financial one for his country; a corruption scandal that tainted his party. His "keep calm and carry on" strategy worked each time. But Catalonia today is a completely different ball game. This Spanish region has enjoyed a high degree of autonomy since the 1980s - only the Basque Country has more. It's also important to note that in cultural terms, Catalonia is arguably the most distinct of Spain's regions.

The Catalan language is widely spoken and from the folkloric dance of Sardana to human towers, there is a long list of cultural traditions here, which enforce the sense of Catalan identity. And a large part of Catalan society will see Madrid's planned takeover as an affront to their whole way of life. The word among the pro-independence camp is that, in the coming weeks, peaceful direct action will be the order of the day. The Spanish government has outlined a clear strategy, couched within a legal framework. Advisers close to the prime minister emphasise that the decision to intervene was not taken lightly but they also argue that Mr Rajoy was left with no choice.

Competitions to build tall and elaborate human towers are a common sight at Catalan regional festivals

At stake, they say, is Spain's entire system of governance; no other Western government would allow a regional administration to ride roughshod over its constitution and laws. Catalonia's independence, or a legitimate vote on the matter, has never been and never will be an option, they exclaim. But over the next days Mariano Rajoy's government faces an unfathomably delicate task. It must now reassert Madrid's authority in Catalonia. The practicalities of that won't be straightforward. Some within Catalonia's civil service will be die-hard supporters of independence. Others will simply hate the concept of Madrid being ultimately in charge. Catalonia's regional police force, Mossos, insists it remains impartial. "We are policemen, not politicians," Inspector Albert Oliva told me. But he admits that his force is in the middle of a "political hurricane." Over the coming weeks the loyalties of Catalan police will be tested to the absolute limit. Before we reach that point, the Spanish senate will have to approve Madrid's proposals. That could take days.

In the meantime, the soon-to-be-sacked Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont will try and convene the regional parliament, before it is stripped of powers. If that happens, he will probably make a more emphatic declaration of independence. The vast majority of Spaniards will, in turn, declare that meaningless. But every twist and turn from now will play into an already febrile political atmosphere. Every time I speak to a taxi driver or an old lady pushing her shopping trolley down the street, be it in Catalonia or in the neighbouring region of Aragon, people's views, on both sides, have hardened. To the naked eye of a tourist, Spain is a country at ease, a country of sun, sea, beautiful buildings and friendly people. Scratch below and there are deep political divisions. And in Catalonia the situation is becoming fractured beyond belief.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41714662
Click to expand...

Plus Ultra · Oct 23, 2017

Puigdemont has just 2 choices; either he makes a unilateral declaration of independence and accelerates Spanish takeover by about 5 days, or he calls for a snap election which maybe could calm Madrid and delay the abolition of his government. There are no other options.

He doesn't want to call for a snap election because he governs by coalition and half of it is profoundly disappointed he didn't declare independence already, the others are on the fence, not so sure about this given the lack of support from EU members and the strength of their solidarity with Madrid. The opposition in Catalonia is against independence, so Puigdemont knows he will lose his job no matter what he does.

He didn't declare independence because he wanted to bargain with Madrid a transition that would facilitate membership in the EU, use of the Euro and continued trade, but Madrid isn't negotiating territorial integrity, the Spanish Constitution authorizes any means to protect territorial integrity and the Senate in Madrid has authorized application of Article 155 thus specifying intervention against the Catalonian government.

Rajoy will proceed with calm deliberation, a week from today Puigdemont will be formally removed from office, his signature will mean nothing and anyone following his instructions will be subject to arrest and prosecution for sedition. Functionaries in the Catalonian bureaucracy who resist the lawful implementation of the directives issued by whoever Madrid appoints to run things in Catalonia, will be fired for cause and replaced with more compliant ones. In about 6 months, once Madrid is adequately satisfied Catalonian institutions will not facilitate unconstitutional conduct, regional elections will be held and Madrid will transfer authority back to whoever Catalonians elect.

waltky · Nov 8, 2017

Spain could allow referendums, says FM...

Catalonia crisis: Spain could allow referendums, says FM
Wed, 08 Nov 2017 - Proposed constitutional changes to allow votes on independence are a response to the Catalan crisis.

Spain is considering constitutional changes that could allow its regions to hold referendums on independence in the future, the foreign minister says. Alfonso Dastis has told the BBC a nationwide vote on the issue could be held. The move is in recognition of the events in Catalonia, where the regional government was deposed after a unilateral declaration of independence. Protests were held against the detention of the region's ex-leaders. Meanwhile, Spain's constitutional court has ruled that the declaration of independence was "unconstitutional and void".

Demonstrators gathered in front of the Catalan government building in Barcelona

What has the foreign minister said?

"We have created a committee in parliament to explore the possibility of amending the constitution to be able to accommodate better the aspirations of some of the Catalan people," Mr Dastis told the BBC. "We acknowledge there is a political situation that deserves to be looked at but, in any case, it's clear that the decision will be taken, will have to be taken by all Spaniards." He also said he was sorry if people got hurt during the banned referendum last month, but that there was no disproportionate use of force. He had previously said some pictures of violence were "fake".

An olive branch to separatists

This appears to be an olive branch to supporters of separatism in Catalonia, who are protesting once again across the region. It offers the prospect of a referendum to change the Spanish constitution and therefore make it legally possible to hold a referendum on Catalan independence. But what that means in effect, is that the entire population of Spain - 47 million people - would vote on whether Catalonia should have the right to self-determination. Alfonso Dastis said the legal change might help resolve the Catalan crisis for future generations. But it is a far cry from what deposed Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont had called for, the right for Catalans only to decide.

Police tried to remove protesters blocking a street in Barcelona

What about the protests?

Some major roads and rail services were still blocked as part of demonstrations called by pro-independence groups. Minor scuffles were reported earlier when police moved in to remove protesters. Hundreds of people also gathered in front of Catalonia's presidential palace in Barcelona. A call for a general strike was not backed by the region's major unions, and shops and businesses opened as normal. Universities and some schools were affected. Eight politicians are being held in an investigation by Madrid authorities into alleged rebellion and sedition linked to the declaration of independence.

What else is happening?
Click to expand...

See also:

Puigdemont criticizes EU leaders for not condemning Spain
7 Nov.`17 - Former Catalonia leader Carles Puigdemont has urged the region’s political forces to come together against Spain.

Puigdemont, who is waiting for extradition news from Belgium, criticised European leaders for not condemning Spain for prosecuting Catalan officials. He was speaking at an interview in Brussels with Catalan public radio. The ousted Catalonian leader said that there is an "absolute disconnect between the interests of the people and the European elites" and that Catalonia's problem is an "issue of human rights that requires maximum attention." Puigdemont is currently fighting extradition to Spain where a number of the ousted leaders have been sent to jail.

Puigdemont has been living in Belgium since Spain dissolved the Catalan parliament and called an election in the region, scheduled to be held on December 21. Meanwhile, pro-secession parties reportedly want the vote to become a de facto independence referendum. Two of those parties, Puigdemont’s PDeCAT and the ERC party, said during the weekend that they might contest the election on a combined ticket. Puigdemont said in a tweet, “We don't have any other alternative but to run all of us together.” However, to do that, they would need to register before midnight of November 7 and experts believe that the time to bridge their differences is very little.

Puigdemont, in his interview, also added, “The ideal would be a broad regional list of parties... that stand for democracy and freedom,” ERC’s spokesman Sergi Sabria has said that it will consider coalition if other parties join them too. Puigdemont received complete support of 200 Catalan mayors earlier this week, who attended a rally in Brussels. They called for continued non-violent resistance. Toni Comin, one of the four former cabinet members in Brussels, said, “Perhaps the path toward freedom will be longer than we thought, but it continues and we haven’t given up.”

http://www.bignewsnetwork.com/news/...riticizes-eu-leaders-for-not-condemning-spain
Click to expand...

Lesh · Nov 8, 2017

kathrinekennley said: ↑

Scotlands possible separation from the United Kingdom, which was eventually rejected in a referendum, has reignited the sense of nationalism in Catalonia, Spain and their desire to become an independent nation.

Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy said he was against the separation and hoped that Catalonia didnt go rouge on Spain, as Scotland had on the U.K. The processes in Scotland and Catalonia are a torpedo to the direct waterline to the flotation device of the European spirit, he said.

Scottish expat Nick Ashley, who lives in Spain, agreed with Rajoy that Catalonia should not go down the same path. Ashley said that a possible separation between the Spanish region in the Iberian Peninsula would be less civilized than what we see happening in Scotland.

Read More: http://www.pangeatoday.com/scotland-motivates-catalonias-fight-for-independence/?orderBy=popular
Click to expand...

This is yet another Russian destabilization move

waltky · Nov 11, 2017

Granny says, "Dat's right - dem Cats is sayin', `Let my people go'...

Protesters flood Barcelona demanding release of separatist leaders
November 11, 2017 - Hundreds of thousands of Catalan independence supporters clogged one of Barcelona's main avenues on Saturday to demand the release of separatist leaders held in prison for their roles in the region's banned drive to split from Spain

Wearing yellow ribbons on their lapels to signify support, they filled the length of the Avenue Marina that runs from the beach to Barcelona’s iconic Sagrada Familia church, while the jailed leaders’ families made speeches. Catalonia’s two main grassroots independence groups called the march, under the slogan “Freedom for the political prisoners,” after their leaders were remanded in custody on charges of sedition last month. The protest is seen as a test of how the independence movement’s support has fared since the Catalan government declared independence on Oct. 27, prompting Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy to fire its members, dissolve the regional parliament and call new elections for December.

An opinion poll this week showed that pro-independence parties would win the largest share of the vote, though a majority was not assured and question marks remain over ousted regional head Carles Puigdemont’s leadership of the separatist cause. “Look at all the people here,” said 63-year-old Pep Morales. “The independence movement is still going strong.” Barcelona police said about 750,000 people had attended, many from across Catalonia. The protesters carried photos with the faces of those in prison, waved the red-and-yellow striped Catalan independence flag and shone lights from their phones. The Spanish High Court has jailed eight former Catalan government members, along with the leaders of the Catalan National Assembly (ANC) and Omnium Cultural, while investigations continue.

The High Court last week issued arrest warrants on charges of rebellion and sedition for Puigdemont, who flew to Brussels after being deposed, and four other former government members who went with him. “Your light reaches us in Brussels and illuminates the path we must keep following,” Puigdemont tweeted during the protest. On Thursday, the Supreme Court ruled to release on bail the Catalan parliament’s speaker Carme Forcadell and four other lawmakers, who enabled the declaration of independence by overseeing a parliamentary vote. Another lawmaker was released without bail. Forcadell left jail on Friday after agreeing to renounce any political activity that went against the Spanish constitution, in effect banning her from campaigning for independence in the December election.

Those terms threaten to undermine the independence movement just as cracks are starting to appear and tensions rise between the grassroots and their leaders. Puigdemont’s PDeCAT party has failed to agree on a united ticket to contest the election with another secessionist party, the ERC, denting the pro-independence camp’s hopes of pressing ahead after the election. On Saturday, the ERC said its leader, jailed former Catalan vice-president Oriol Junqueras, would be its candidate in December and he would campaign from behind bars. Pepita Sole, a 61-year-old pensioner in the crowd on Saturday, said she understood the Oct. 27 declaration was symbolic but now wanted the real thing. “They better understand that we’re not faking.”

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-s...g-release-of-separatist-leaders-idUSKBN1DB0PW
Click to expand...

Log in or Sign up

Scotland motivates Catalonias fight for independence

kathrinekennley New Member

waltky Well-Known Member

Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

Ethereal Well-Known Member

waltky Well-Known Member

waltky Well-Known Member

Plus Ultra Well-Known Member

waltky Well-Known Member

Lesh Banned

waltky Well-Known Member

Share This Page

Log in or Sign up

Scotland motivates Catalonias fight for independence

kathrinekennley New Member

waltky Well-Known Member

Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

Ethereal Well-Known Member

waltky Well-Known Member

waltky Well-Known Member

Plus Ultra Well-Known Member

waltky Well-Known Member

Lesh Banned

waltky Well-Known Member

Share This Page

Useful Searches

Scotland motivates Catalonias fight for independence