Donetsk and Lugansk support unity of Ukraine on their terms

http://voiceofrussia.com/uk/news/20...nt-to-preserve-Ukrainian-unity-on-terms-1979/
Those conditions to stay as a part of Ukraine are very far reaching and contagious for the rest of Ukraine. They would have their own judicial apparatus and police force. Russian language will be their language. Ukrainian zealots forced Crimean Russians to speak Ukrainian, even children were required to speak "mova". "Duzhe pohano..." (too bad) for the Maidans in Kiev. How they can swallow this? With such terms, Lugansk and Donetsk will be always an example for Odessa and other cities in so-called Ukraine. Who will rule the united Ukraine? Will Ukraine be a kind of "United States of Ukraine"? I think this is a very unlikely scenario.

 

Donetsk and Lugansk are cities in Ukraine. Contrary to Russian belief, they are located in a soveirgn nation, called Ukraine. Russia, invaded this soveirgn nation with their "rebels", and tanks, and guns, and seized these cities from a soveirgn nation. Russian sanctions are killing their economy and in fact, crippling the very businesses that helped prop them up. Russia will back off.

 

this russian-speaking boy was tortured by kiev junta

 

Elf I don't know Ukrainian, but I read on the Vineyard of the Saker that these Transcarpatian children are part of a child battalion called 'Falcon', and that the song they are singing is: Glory to Ukraine. Glory to its heroes. Death to moskals! Ukraine is above everything. The East and the West are together".

Isn't Moskals a derogatory term for Russians?

 

Those cities rejected Ukraine. More cities in so-called Ukraine will reject it after some time. You know, house divided cannot stand. Hundreds of thousand of refugees from these cities fled to Russia. Majority of them will return and they will vote. "Duzhe pohano..."

 

Mysterious Elf from the Ukraine, why are you alone here? The rest of internet users in Ukraine are scared to death, killed or tortured? Duzhe pohano... Some Maidan junta "porushily" to Lvov. They do not know English to fight for Ukraine even in forums.

 

Can you please give me a date and an event that occurred that you are basing this Russian invasion on? I cant find that info anywhere.

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/significant-escalation-russian-tanks-enter-ukraine/

Russian tanks entering Ukraine. Lol.

How could you not find that anywhere? I found it on my first google search. Do you need assistance?

- - - Updated - - -

Do you have satelite images that counter these images and video?

 

I found this but it did not translate in my Uke/Eng. translator and must be slang.
"Moskal (москаль, moskalik, moskal&#8217 is is a term for Russians used in Ukraine, Belarus and Poland and currently considered to be derogatory.[1][2]


M.Fartukh "Moskali destroy Kiev", illustration from an 1934 history textbook (referring to the destruction of Kiev in 1169)
Moskal can be a type of ethnic slur with a mild negative connotation.

a derogatory reference word for Russian, or literally Muscovite (a person from Moscovia or Muscovy) to differentiate them from other Eastern Slavs such as people from the White Rus' (Belarusians), the Red Rus' (Galicians), others; used in several Slavic languages: Belarusian, Polish and Ukrainian, today it is considered largely an archaism and an ethnic slur.[3]
a soldier of the Russian Imperial Army (later the Soviet Army) in the Ukrainian language. People who were drafted to the Army were known to be taken into moskali (Ukrainian: у москал&#1110. Because most of the Ukrainians after serving in the Army spoke often in Russian after demobilization, the word obtained its negative connotation and was applying to the person who lost his roots as well.[citation needed]
Another ethnic slur that refer to Russians, common in Ukraine and Poland, is katsap (uk:каца&#1087 and kacap (kacap) respectivelly.

 

Did you imagined this in your dreams or what? Have you spoken to people who live in Donetsk or Lugansk? How are they living, who do they see? You have no information to make such statements. If you have please share.

Russian sanctions are killing their economy? Do you know that Ukrainian patreots go around trashing goods from Russia and Russian gas stations. Ukraine has a huge debt that it is not going to pay. Ukraine refused to go into Customs Union, so they chose their own way of living, by wanting to go to the EU.

 

You can prove that Russia invaded Ukraine? Or you guff? CIA, NSA and the Department of State United States can not prove the invasion of Russia in Ukraine. Shame on you lie?

 

From which it is clear that it is the Russian tanks? From which it is clear that it is Ukraine? One should not think that all the people on the forum stupid sheep who believe in any delirium.

 

The very first sentence of your article says that this is an ACCUSATION by Kiev and the west. Im looking for something more than the word of the people who have been proven to be continuous liars.
"Ukraine accused Russia on Thursday of entering its territory with tanks, artillery and troops, and Western powers said Moscow had "outright lied" about its role and dangerously escalated the conflict."
Can I interest you in some genuine big foot hair?

"

 

I like term "hohol", not necessarily derogatory. Ukraine - "Hohlyandia". This is all fine with me, but I am sure "mova" is very unpopular in Crimea now. To them, "mova" is a disgusting language of people with a sense of inferiority. This is a fruit of the nationalistic policy from Kiev. It backfired.

 

Russia really looks like they are dying.
http://thebricspost.com/russia-chin...st-germany-now-france-folds-syrian-airstrikes

 

I don't think that in Crimea it is that bad, since it is away from the hot zone. However I know for sure that in Donetsk and Lugansk and their regions(I'll call the people of Donetsk from now on), people hate everything Ukrainian related. They hate Ukrainian flags, Ukrainian traditional clothes, hate Ukrainian speech. I don't really like it and sometimes I try to reason with Donetsk people() but what can I say, when people say things like "They killed my sister, or burned my grandmothers house"

I know that people from Odessa did not forget what had happened there. It is forgotten by the media and maybe people from Kiev but not from Odessa. There are many that hate Ukrainian speech and other things that are Ukrainian. If a person speak Ukrainian in a bus, he can be asked to get off(this was a real life story by one of the people on the forums I visit)

 

One of my friends in Moscow wrote that when she visited her relatives in northern Ukraine, she was warned not to talk to locals on the street. She did not speak that "mova" and this was before Poroshekno's war on Donetsk, Lugansk and Slavyansk. I watched "Crimea for dummies" and my impression was that people of Crimea do not honor Ukrainian stuff, except may be borsch and vareniki. Now, Crimea is a part of Russia, but other cities in the south and east of Ukraine have a reason to be better prepared.

 

There is no proof of a Russian invasion or the OSCE would have said so. Poroshenko is lying to please his Washington bosses who want to frack the slate gas around Slaviansk .... and they are willing to fight to the last Ukrainian to achieve their objective. Now come on, you don't think the people living there were bombed for no reason, now do you?

 

Elf I forgot to post the video before, so I'm doing it now. I came across this video of Transcarpathian children of the Falcon battalion on Vineyard of the Saker singing the Ukrainian national anthem. At the end they chant Glory to Ukraine, Glory to its heroes, death to the Moskals, Ukraine is above everything. Why are they doing this to young kids?

[video=youtube;QZV2W_Kg0jc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZV2W_Kg0jc[/video]

 

To those who are interested, here is a compilation by ClubOrlov of what Ukraine would look like if Russia did invade:

1. Ukrainian artillery fell silent almost immediately. They are no longer shelling residential districts of Donetsk and Lugansk. This is because their locations had been pinpointed prior to the operation, and by Thursday afternoon they were completely wiped out using air attacks, artillery and ground-based rocket fire, as the first order of business. Local residents are overjoyed that their horrible ordeal is finally at an end.

2. The look of military activity on the ground in Donetsk and Lugansk has changed dramatically. Whereas before it involved small groups of resistance fighters, the Russians operate in battalions of 400 men and dozens of armored vehicles, followed by convoys of support vehicles (tanker trucks, communications, field kitchens, field hospitals and so on). The flow of vehicles in and out is non-stop, plainly visible on air reconnaissance and satellite photos. Add to that the relentless radio chatter, all in Russian, which anyone who wants to can intercept, and the operation becomes impossible to hide.

3. The Ukrainian military has promptly vanished. Soldiers and officers alike have taken off their uniforms, abandoned their weapons, and are doing their best to blend in with the locals. Nobody thought the odds of the Ukrainian army against the Russians were any good. Ukraine's only military victory against Russia was at the battle of Konotop in 1659, but at the time Ukraine was allied with the mighty Khanate of Crimea, and, you may have noticed, Crimea is not on Ukraine's side this time around.

4. There are Russian checkpoints everywhere. Local civilians are allowed through, but anyone associated with a government, foreign or domestic, is detained for questioning. A filtration system has been set up to return demobilized Ukrainian army draftees to their native regions, while the volunteers and the officers are shunted to pretrial detention centers, to determine whether they had ordered war crimes to be committed.

5. Most of Ukraine's border crossings are by now under Russian control. Some have been reinforced with air defense and artillery systems and tank battalions, to dissuade NATO forces from attempting to stage an invasion. Civilians and humanitarian goods are allowed through. Businessmen are allowed through once they fill out the required forms (which are in Russian).

6. Russia has imposed a no-fly zone over all of Ukraine. All civilian flights have been cancelled. There is quite a crowd of US State Department staffers, CIA and Mossad agents, and Western NGO people stuck at Borispol airport in Kiev. Some are nervously calling everyone they know on their satellite phones. Western politicians are demanding that they be evacuated immediately, but Russian authorities want to hold onto them until their possible complicity in war crimes has been determined.

7. The usual Ukrainian talking heads, such as president Poroshenko, PM Yatsenyuk and others, are no longer available to be interviewed by Western media. Nobody quite knows where they are. There are rumors that they have already fled the country. Crowds have stormed their abandoned residences, and were amazed to discover that they were all outfitted with solid gold toilets. Nor are the Ukrainian oligarchs anywhere to be found, except for the warlord Igor Kolomoisky, who was found in his residence, abandoned by his henchmen, dead from a heart attack. (Contributed by the Saker.)

8. Some of the over 800,000 Ukrainian refugees are starting to stream back in from Russia. They were living in tent cities, many of them in the nearby Rostov region, but with the winter coming they are eager to get back home, now that the shelling is over. Along with them, construction crews, cement trucks and flatbeds stacked with pipe, cable and rebar are streaming in, to repair the damage from the shelling.

9. There is all sorts of intense diplomatic and military activity around the world, especially in Europe and the US. Military forces are on highest alert, diplomats are jetting around and holding conferences. President Obama just held a press conference to announce that “We don't have a strategy on Ukraine yet.” His military advisers tell him that his usual strategy of “bomb a little and see what happens” is not likely to be helpful in this instance.

10. Kiev has surrendered. There are Russian tanks on the Maidan Square. Russian infantry is mopping up the remains of Ukraine's National Guard. A curfew has been announced. The operation to take Kiev resembled “Shock and Awe” in Baghdad: a few loud bangs and then a whimper.

Armed with this list, you too should be able to determine whether or not Russia has invaded Ukraine last Thursday.

http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2014/08/how-can-you-tell-whether-russia-has.html

 

I wonder when was it. Because in 90s there was no problem speaking Russian in Western Ukraine, like in Lvov. However the situation changed a bit in 2000s.

Crimea maybe is not honoring Ukrainian stuff, but it is either temporarily because they did not suffer as much as Donetsk and Lugansk or Odessa. It's one thing to watch stuff on TV and the other to actually see dead bodies and burned houses. However there is a tention between Crimea and Ukraine in the net, because of the stupid propaganda that when Crimea got separated everything became worse. That spawned a lot of mocking posts from Ukrainians and irritated answers from Crimean people

 

all the people of the forum? You speak only for yourself ...no one on this forum is naive enough to believe this is anything less than a russian invasion...well no one except the you and your fellow russian sheep.....

 

It doesn't matter much anymore, Putin and the rebels have won. Any renewed hostilities will be in a different context, that of broken promises by Kiev and by then the eastern regions will have a more thoroughly established infrastructure. The east is the industrial and agricultural base so once it's independent it will only be a matter of time before it subsumes the western half of the country.

 

I don't agree with you. Things are quite simmilar to Germany in 1949. The DDR, which I'd like to compare with Novorussia had nearly the complete industrial heard of former German Reich on it's territorry especially in Sachsen and Sachsen-Anhalt.
Exept coal and steal in Nordrhein-Westfalen the BRD mainly stated from poor agricultural regions like Bayern, Hessen, Niedersachsen and Schleswig-Holstein.
But they started with western help and even more important with the western economical system. And it didn't take too long, they made a much better performance than the eastern brothers. And we all know the end some 40 jears later, which was only of economocal reason, not military.
If - and I got big worries, as the Ukraine has a very very long way to go off corruption, old system and mafia structures - one day the Ukraine is a modern, democratic country f.e. like Poland, Czech or Slovakia, they will be in a position towards a seperated Novorussia like the BRD was to DDR at least after the 1960's. But they have a hard way to go and maybe it will need a new - non sovjet raised generation to achieve this, like Germany got what it is now after the generation of WW2 disapeared from might.

For Ukrainian officials it may be the same decision now as for Adenauer in 1950. But sacrifice the unity of the country (in Crimea and the russian occupied territories in the east) and building up the rest of the country may be better than a long lasting war they can't win or a permanent slow down for the whole country by russian influence. But this is a hard and non popular decision like it was for Adenauer too.

 

Europe2050, I understand value of your observation, but, as far as I know Germany and Ukraine, Ukraine is very much different from Germany, except the fact of division within presumably one nation. Germany was divided not because east Germans liked communism and west Germans liked capitalism. It was entirely artificially enforced division cause by occupational troops of the former Soviet Union. Communists did so the same way they had done it all over Russia and other parts of the former Russian Empire. When Gorbachev triggered dismounting Communist system, one of the first results of it was reunification of Germany, which was natural and quite happy process. In Ukraine, we have only one ingredient, which poisons everything: this is nationalistic Catholic fraction from Lvov and Galicia. This part had been artificially (by force) added to Ukraine as a result of WWII and those nationalistic elements cannot accept the fact that Ukrainians are Russian speaking people, they are zealous to remake Ukraine and this what EU, USA were betting on, when they prepared the Maidan coup. Another major part of the problem is the same as in Russia after communist rule. Ukrainian population has no experience of self governing and respecting law under conditions of free market. People are prone to steal and bribe, when they can, without rigid control from above. It takes time for adjustments in the society. Even countries with a long history of democracy, such as Italy or USA, constantly struggle with similar problems. What you expect from Ukraine, from bottom and up? However, Lvov fraction will be always incompatible with peace in Ukraine. Actually, they should be separatists, not the most of the Ukraine. Let them go and everything will settle up naturally, like it had been in Germany.