New York Times post – There should be no Palestinian state

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by HBendor, Oct 17, 2014.

  1. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    New York Times post – There should be no Palestinian state
    Friday, October 17th, 2014
    ~Caroline Glick

    The New York Times online debating forum Room For Debate asked me to participate in an online forum regarding the rationale for recognizing the non-existent state of Palestine.

    Read the whole article click on the link

    http://carolineglick.com/new-york-times-post-there-should-be-no-palestinian-state/

    Here’s what I wrote:

    When Swedish Prime Minister Stefan Lofven announced his decision to recognize the non-existent state of “Palestine” earlier this month, he inadvertently gave the game away.


    Lofven said, “A two-state solution requires mutual recognition and a will to peaceful coexistence. Sweden will therefore recognize the State of Palestine.”


    The Palestinians refuse to recognize or peacefully coexist with the State of Israel.


    Like his coalition partner Hamas terror master Khaled Mashaal, and despite his sweet talk to Western audiences, PLO chief Mahmoud Abbas has pledged, repeatedly, over decades that he will never, ever recognize Israel. During his speech to the UN General Assembly last month he reverted to PLO language from the 1970s, referring to Israel repeatedly as “the occupying Power,” and “the racist occupying State.”


    So when Lofven recognized “Palestine,” he joined the Palestinian campaign to destroy Israel. He used the language of the “two-state solution,” to reject the Jewish state.


    Former British foreign minister and Labor MP Jack Straw went a step further this week as he addressed his Parliament before its lopsided 274-12 vote to recognize “Palestine.”


    The vote, he explained, was not about advancing peace. It was a straightforward bid to harm Israel.


    In his words, “The only thing that the Israeli government…understands is pressure.”


    Lofven, Straw and their colleagues throughout Europe aren’t stupid. They know what they’re doing.


    They know that Gaza, which Israel vacated nine years ago, is a terror state run by the genocidal jihadists of Hamas.


    They know that if Israel succumbs to their political and economic warfare and cedes its capital city and historic heartland to its enemies, it will be unable to defend its remaining territory.


    And they know that like Gaza, those areas will quickly be taken over by Hamas, which will use them to launch a war of annihilation against Israel in conjunction with its jihadist brethren in surrounding states.


    In other words, they know that in recognizing “Palestine” they are not helping the cause of peace. They are advancing Israel’s ruin.


    If they were even remotely interested in freedom and peace, the Europeans would be doing the opposite. They would be working to strengthen and expand Israel, the only stable zone of freedom and peace in the region.


    They would abandon the phony two-state solution, which as Straw and Lofven revealed is merely doublespeak for seeking Israel’s destruction and its replacement with a terror state.


    With strategic blindness and moral depravity now serving as the twin guideposts for European policy towards Israel, Israel and its supporters must tell the truth about the push to recognize “Palestine.”


    It isn’t about peace or justice. It’s about hating Israel and assisting those who most actively seek its obliteration.

    Originally published in The New York Times.
     
  2. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    opinion pieces from right-wing bigots, don't really matter.

    Caroline Glick is known for her extremist ideas.

    Israel annexing all of the West Bank, would lead to international isolation and sanctions, just like Apartheid South Africa.
     
  3. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    Here is a SANE British person who explains it in pure English for the intellectuals on this board. I say intellectuals because the other programmed contributors are a lost case. Relax have a cup of ice tea and listen to reality.

    Pat Condell: Hypocrisy over Gaza - הצביעות ביחס לעזה - תרגום עברי
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TqK-WLP-_s

    Pat Condell: No Peace in the Middle East? Blame Israel
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYmB38n1Y6Q

    Pat Condell: Why I support Israel
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHC8KC5cLs8
     
  4. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Caroline Glick and Pat Condell... what a pair.
     
  5. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    Better than the murderers Khaled Mashaal and Abbas (Abu Mazen) who subsidized the murder of the Olympics Jewish athletes in Munich.
     
  6. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    HBender if as per your article Jack Straw said this
    I want a source for the quote. I did not hear him speak but clearly if he said that he was arguing against the motion. I was a bit suspicious of him anyway given that he was one of those involved in giving Israel a free ride with Hamas and the Palestinians not to engage in negotiations with them but to call them terrorists similar to Al Qaeda which Netanyahu is now trying to make the most of by calling them ISIS - to International ridicule, and by not engaging in negotiations to engage only in a military conflict with them - something clearly Israel would always win due to her superior power.

    Most of your article was make believe but do please let me have the quote of Jack Straw if that was what he really said. He more than most knows what has been going on there and more than most has some responsibility for this in allowing Israel to act in this way. Let's hope his conscience has got to him.

    http://www.lrb.co.uk/v33/n05/alastair-crooke/permanent-temporariness
     
  7. Pardy

    Pardy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Using this logic, Israel cannot be a state because Palestine doesn't recognize it as a state.

    Glick is fighting a losing battle as the world is increasingly recognizing Palestine's existence.
     
  8. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    they didn't target Jewish athletes.

    they targeted the Israeli olympic team, be they Jews or non-Jews.
     
  9. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    So what one must do? Crawl in a corner and commit Hara Keri?

    Listen to that man maybe he will give you some backbone that many here have already lost...

    Pat Condell: Why Do MUSLIMS Always Blame The JEWS.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziXyfLf-oxI
     
  10. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I welcome Israel acting on the One-State Solution plan, and offering all Palestinians full citizenship.

    Once these millions of Palestinians become citizens, they can vote in more Moderate and equality-loving Israelis, who will change Israel to become a more equal and tolerant society.
     
  11. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    Go there http://carolineglick.com/new-york-ti...stinian-state/ and write Caroline Glick she always answers,

    and for the last time the family name is HBendor!!!!!
     
  12. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I can now give you his speech.

    http://www.publications.parliament....141013/debtext/141013-0002.htm#14101322000001

    Jack Straw clearly neither said nor implied that he wanted this vote to harm Israel. Your writer was lying. He merely gave an argument for Israel to keep her word and his belief that Israel would not move unless put under pressure.


    I haven't read them. I more often call you Bender and if anything was trying to be polite today ;) It reads to me that H is your first name and Bender your family name. Why is there a problem calling you that when you have it as your forum name and what do you like to be called?
     
  13. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    My first name is H and the family name is BENDOR and nothing else! You are mixing me up with another member called Bender, I am not this person, I am HBendor.

    Find Bender here http://www.politicalforum.com/current-events/212868-back-bus-furor.html
     
  14. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, Israel should annex the West Bank and give citizenship to the Palestinians.

    everyone can live anywhere they want. everyone can vote.

    true democracy will take hold in a matter of months.
     
  15. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    972 makes the point that at this stage it might be more helpful to vote against the Occupation, rather than to vote for the Palestinians state. Perhaps that can be the next Back Bencher debate in 3 months or so. They also point out that some of the MP's still do not have any conscience as to what has been and is continuing to be done to the Palestinian people and is indeed the policy now by Israel. They point out instead that some of the MP's for instance Ottoway, the vote is not for Justice for the Palestinians but rather simply a vote against the current government for making him look a fool.

    http://972mag.com/instead-of-voting-to-recognize-palestine-vote-against-occupation/97733/

    He believes that Israel has made a fool of him for supporting them. I think when you get such a continuous strong supporter of Israel right or wrong who has had family involvement since the conception of Israel and is now turning away, it is the beginning of true alienation of Israel in the world by the West. However 972 is suggesting this quite simply is not good enough. Active work for justice the Palestinians is needed and it is needed now. Despite the UN telling us Israel's actions were 'Humanity's Shame' and that what just happened in Gaza cannot be repeated, Israel has no intentions of changing how she acts. They may spend billions building up Gaza but Israel will just destroy it again. Next time no doubt she will need to do more, so will kill about half the people there. Of course there will be a next time as Israel has no intentions on changing the situation. She has no intention of allowing the citizens of Gaza any life other than something similar to what she can remember of the Warsaw ghetto, though likely it is now getting worse in Gaza what with no water for half a million, the reality that it is reckoned it will take 20 years to rebuild and the UN's prediction that unless the siege ends Gaza will be uninhabitable by 2020. Israel also has zero intention of doing anything but occupying any of the West Bank she wants while treating the Palestinians no better than stray dogs. She is now on a roll with her friends Saudi Arabia, Egypt and apparently Jordan believing the Palestinian people can be annihilated and they will not care. Given that certainly Egypt and Saudi Arabia give not a damn to human rights she is on a roll. The people of their countries are going to be furious as to what their rulers are doing but as we have seen in Egypt, the Government believes in mass murder of their own when they do not like their ideas. Clearly they and Israel are of one mind.

    I am not sure if there is any hope left for the Palestinian people. Israel though will be a nation shunned by those who believe in Human Rights. Israel is the reason for ISIS. Perhaps Rev can rejoice that in it's own way Israel has started Armageddon.
     
  16. Tommy Palven

    Tommy Palven Active Member Past Donor

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  17. Tommy Palven

    Tommy Palven Active Member Past Donor

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    If Israel gave Palestinians the vote it would no longer be a Jewish theocracy. They have to drive the Palestinians out, first.
     
  18. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Its too late for a two state solution because Israel has built up settlements on every hilltop in the West Bank.
     
  19. Tommy Palven

    Tommy Palven Active Member Past Donor

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    France is also voting on a two-state solution. Sweden and England voted overwhelmingly in favor of it. Now Spain and France are voting.
    http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-C...Palestinian-state-if-negotiations-fail-378888

    If the entire world with the exception of the US and Israel recognize a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders, it seems that Israel with be hard-pressed to maintain it's Jewish-only apartheid settlements in the West Bank.

    Fwiw, Kerry seems serious about a two-state solution. We'll just have to wait and see what develops.
     
  20. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Even if we allow ourselves a big imagination that this could happen and the Palestinians would have a 'state', they would need a military or someone else's military to protect them.

    Israel has said she will allow Palestinians 'autonomy' in Bantustans. Ya'alon has also said they can declare an Empire for Palestinians, no problem. They will never have the ability to protect themselves and will never get rid of the occupation. They will be a 'State' or Empire in name only.

    http://972mag.com/defense-minister-...oking-for-a-way-to-manage-the-conflict/97761/

    Hence why it is not sufficient to declare a Palestinian State but instead must be a demand for the end of the occupation....and why once the occupation is over the Palestinian State must have the ability to protect itself.
     
  21. Marlowe

    Marlowe New Member

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    Bendor family name , Hmmm - sounds like they originate from Central -Eastern Europe - NOT from the Levant/Eastern Mediterranean .


    ..... -
     
  22. Marlowe

    Marlowe New Member

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    Kerry speaks with forked tongue .

    "According to the Israeli Haaretz newspaper, John Kerry's family are actually Jews whose surname was Kohn. His paternal grandfather Frederick A. Kerry, was born Fritz Kohn in a town in what today is the Czech Republic before changing his name ahead of his immigration to the United States a century ago

    http://judaism.about.com/od/jewishgenealogy/a/jewpas_kerry.htm

    a crypto like Madeleine Albright - :wink:

    ...
     
  23. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think Kerry is honest in his desire to create a two state solution - he may be a bit late but I think the desire is honest and also has to do with wanting to protect Israel. Prior to him wanting to start a last stance 'peace effort' better if it was called 'justice for the Palestinians' effort, Obama had completely given up on Israel. Obama expected Israel to be ostracised by the world and to suffer from economic sanctions particularly from the EU. He did though say the US would always militarily protect Israel and by that the US is still the enabler of the status quo in Israel.


    http://972mag.com/war-is-the-new-system-of-governance-and-five-other-gaza-takeaways/96135/

    - that presumably requires the US getting another ally in that region from whom they can get the intelligence they get from Israel or maybe realising that the cost is not worth it. Who knows maybe Kerry just keeps going on and on about these Peace talks which Israel has no intention on moving in, to justify supporting them militarily.

    Kerry has pissed of Bennet by suggesting that Israel is a major cause of iSIS

    However he did add
    http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-C...ving-peace-is-more-important-than-ever-379062

    http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-C...stinian-conflict-to-ISIS-proliferation-379080

    I was pleased to notice in the UK Backbenchers debate that several people pointed out that the Palestinians had nothing left to compromise with and that it would have to be Israel giving. This of course is due to the lack of effort of the quartet to get them working, most of all in allowing Israel to refuse negotiations in particular with Hamas but in general all the time letting them add to this settlement, pinch this resources, demolish this living space until now there is no one at all that cannot see that Israel has no intention of being an honourable nation and providing what she has previously promised. Ever since Palestine started getting her voice heard at the UN, Israel has been building more and more settlement houses. There is no question now that the leading voice not just in the Knesset but also among the Israeli population is the far right Nat Religious.
     
  24. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    looks like anti-Semitism.
     
  25. Marlowe

    Marlowe New Member

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    Not really -

    Just%u00252Bthe%u00252Bfacts.jpg

    ....
     

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