Think the government must convict you of a crime before it can punish you for it?

Discussion in 'Law & Justice' started by Hoosier8, Oct 21, 2014.

  1. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Think again.

    By Radley Balko

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/people/radley-balko

    Radley has written "Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America's Police Forces". He does some good work. This case is surprising to me as I did not know this happens. Look at the rare dissent from Judges of the Court's refusal to review.

     
  2. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The justice system is a facade. There are no courts but kangaroo courts.
     
  3. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    " Think the government must convict you of a crime before it can punish you for it? "

    never been that way, you think multi million dollar bonds are not punishment? your not convicted of anything awaiting trial, yet you are being punished

    the war on drugs is another good example, they can take your money you have on you, and you must prove you earned it to get it back, again same thing... that is punishment (never see them do this to a company, only to "real" people)

    .
     
  4. Casper

    Casper Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    The "Justice" system has been a mess for years and it is only getting worse. The day that Citizens feel they will no longer get a Fair trial in this Nation is the day that many Good Police Officers are going to start getting involved in shootouts of what would have been simple arrests in the past, why would a person put themselves at the mercy of a court system they know will ignore the Justice system this Nation was supposed to have.
    That said I doubt this is a common occurrence, yet, but the more courts get away with the more this sort of thing will occur and at some point the Courts will be judged for their own actions by The People, ask the French Nobility how that worked out for them.
     
  5. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    the more money you have the better "justice" you get, for starters.. rich people with enough money to run, can afford bail thus avoid jail while awaiting trial, then after, they can not go to prision while waiting for appeals... ect.. ect...
     
  6. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Politicians appoint the judges and write the legislation - they form policy based on what will give them the greatest power and length of office. Like any other game, they're trying to find the most appropriate set of alliances and betrayals to that end.

    The consensus in a society provide the bulk of this power - so politicians try to find the best selection of policies to fit the largest majority of the people. But also, special interests can provide politicians with a greater influence over that consensus. It's all about what fulfills their ambitions, naturally.

    I don't think pandering to the consensus or special interests is justified.
     
  7. fifthofnovember

    fifthofnovember Well-Known Member

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    What a load of bull(*)(*)(*)(*). (*)(*)(*)(*) this country.
     
  8. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    Well if you don't commit crimes then there is nothing to worry about and why system has an appeals process.
     
  9. stjames1_53

    stjames1_53 Banned

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    did you read the entire article? You don't have to have committed a crime to stand in front of a judge.
    Look at a simple ticket (PI). A cop claims you were PI. They are not required to give you any kind of test to determine with or not you are drunk for a PI charge. You go stand in front a "judge" and who is he going to believe? You or the cop? And while that is a minor offense, it stays on your record that can be used against you in the future. Now you have a criminal record for doing nothing illegal.
    But people don't complain anymore, or have the resources to fight back. It does no good.
    It is interesting to note that lawyers write the laws, prosecute or defend, and judges are lawyers. We also elect lawyers.....see the pattern here?
    Ever evaluate the costs of an appeal?
    and of course you get to hire an attorney to file an appeal.................
     
  10. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    That is the system we have, I don't see the issue its your duty as a citizen to obey the laws when driving for example which is a privilege the States give you among those is safe operation of the vehicle your in don't be impaired, unduly distracted, alert and obey the rules of the road if you don't you get usually a ticket with a chance to pay the fine, or go to challenge it before a judge (a Constitutional Right).

    The government is not to get people, but you have to obey and submit to the rather modest demands made by it upon citizens or you can get into trouble.

    Now there is an issue of judicial oversight of judges, most lifetime appointments, that is done by the Bar Association and lawmakers the ones people elect, you want that fixed then elect better representatives.
     
  11. stjames1_53

    stjames1_53 Banned

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    you've never had to deal with an appeal for a PI charge, have you. Often times it's just cheaper to pay it than appeal it. And you damned well know it is. But that is far from fair.
    Bet if you were in those shoes, and not PI, you'd just go ahead and pay the fine.....and not appeal a wrongful charge.
     

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