Well this has to be good news. Israel's President has felt the need to bring out into the open that Israel is a sick society. Nothing to do with how she treats the Palestinians but the roots of that must be in the society itself. Interesting he sees within Israel the way out as learning to talk, the very thing I have been saying is what has been missing with the Palestinians and making the possibility of resolution impossible. However if Israel begins at home and learns to talk among herself and sort out the problems there, it stands to reason that the new found consciousness will move towards the Palestinians. If she does not, then likely she will internally combust. http://mondoweiss.net/2014/10/israeli-presidents-diagnosis with quotes from The Jewish Telegraph and and the Jerusalem Post. and cont'd http://www.timesofisrael.com/leaders-put-sick-society-under-a-microscope-but-find-few-cures/ I would say the hatred continued to the attack on Gaza but thank goodness Israel has come out with the problems within her society. Only when you are open about things can you change them.
A rare to a - presumably - Zionist politician - Reuven Rivlin is lucky he’s a politician in Israel. Were he a politician in the United States, he’d be labelled an anti-Semite /self-hating Jew and likely forced from his job. Did he really suggest that his country’s Jewish citizens have “forgotten how to be decent human beings.” ? http://theuglytruth.wordpress.com/2014/10/22/is-israels-president-an-anti-semite/#more-72766 Rivlin will be well advised not to walk abt without armed bodyguards or visit any illegal settlements . .. ...
Yes, a lot of the problem seems to have come from the EU working Definition of Antisemitism which came out with the 'new antisemitism' that is antisemitism no longer exists much in the old form, it now can be seen by criticism of Israel. Not only that according to the EU working definition, anything which could be seen as antisemitism was to be taken as if it was antisemitism. Two people for instance could say much the same thing, one would be saying it because as far as they could see it was the truth, another could say it just to have a go at Israel because they hated Jews apparently but both were to be taken as hating Jews. It was a working definition and it was not created by the EU, it was created by some American's behind closed doors and it never was worked on. Clearly this stopped freedom of speech and so two or three years ago our Universities Union decided it could no longer go with it as it infringed freedom of speech. At the same time they made it clear they were bringing in their own policies concerning antisemitism. I am almost certain that the EU itself has stopped using it. However it allowed for a lot of harassment on freedom of speech and also in that way for Israel not to receive the criticisms any country needs to keep it on track particularly this century when she has gone more and more to the right and brought in through her Parliament many things which are antidemocratic. In this way it has become harder and harder for alternative voices to be heard in Israel and to some extent for alternative voices from Jews to be heard outside Israel although they certainly are growing... I will tell you one British group Yachad, who are a zionist group but believe in the two state solution have done an excellent job. Although being Zionist they have a strong humanitarian feeling and feel it is going to be difficult for Jews to continue supporting Israel if there are not changes. They still believe in a two state solution. They have been organising trips to the West Bank so that people can understand what it is like there. They meet with people from Breaking the Silence and other groups. I could not believe when I was listening to the Backbenchers debate on Israel, the number of MP's who said they had been to the West Bank and I'd bet it has something to do with Yachad. A year or two ago it would have been virtually nil and I am sure this has something to do with people's views changing. In Israel during this century we have seen the censorship of people having different views getting stronger and stronger. After the latest Gaza war Btselem came under attack. It was to be blacklisted from National Service - not too sure what that means but I think it means if you work there your life chances for employment are going to be reduced. I remember on this site when a poster was accused of liking Peace Now, he was so offended you would have thought he had been accused of being a traitor....but most of all it all came out with the three teens and the Gaza war. Rivilin is only concerned about what is going on in Israel. He apparently does not have much interest in the Palestinians but during the Gaza war there was so much shouting within Israel of Death to the Arabs, that included Israeli citizens. They suffered from mass arrest, were beaten up and many lost their jobs. There was a video of the far right stopping taxis and demanding threateningly to know if they were arabs. This was all accepted by everyone around. Anti war Israel's arabs and Jews were threatened by these people. Clearly it is as bad as it sounded and it seems it is the far right, who I think have got the hold of Israel's mentality at the moment who he seems to be most concerned about. They need to find a way whereby people listen to opposing voices, where the voices of people like Btselem are appreciated, are heard as an important corrective mechanism within society rather than being seen as traitors. It has to be good for Israel that he was speaking. But does he, as Philip Weiss of Mondoweiss ask " have the makings of a De Klerk, the ability to state to his fellow citizens that the project has failed and must be reimagined." It is a start. Seems it was this http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Po...is-a-sick-society-that-needs-treatment-379223 He has recognised what would have been impossible to miss during the Gaza war. Looks like he knows change must come or .... I don't know anything about the man but who knows. Sadly if he looks like being effective, that is true. - - - Updated - - - Couldn't agree more.
Rivlin definitely seems a man to watch [video=youtube;coavhSZmlwo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coavhSZmlwo[/video] http://972mag.com/watch-the-boy-who-put-equality-back-on-the-agenda/97346/ (I'm going to ask for the thread title to be changed )
Do you have any idea what his political views are? what party he came from ? what his views on peace ? its an easy read in WIKI if you really want to.
Yes but they are still a small minority, rabid dogs bark alot in social nets that's why we hear them alot (here as well) and why Rubi spoke against it, but its not the circus you made it to be in this thread.....
He is a Likud party member who believes in the settlements and a one state solution who also has a history of being against racism. He speaks for equality though possibly not for women. He has brought up the subject of racism within Israel which over the past years has become the subject of massive reporting. I do not understand why you think that a person's position on other things should nullify their position in another. No one has criticised what he has said. Indeed one place, could have been Haaretz said that his opening up discussion on the racism and inequality was as important as the situation of the Palestinians. (Both are Israel's shame.) Well no one suggested all Israel's are racist. However when someone denies something which even the President of their country has said, it is usually because they are complicit in it or I guess ignorant as to what racism is. I chose to change the title of this thread to hopefully give the opportunity for discussion. Clearly you wish for that not to be so. Your problem. A President does not call his society 'sick' if there are not profound reasons for it. The racism within Israeli society is arguably the backbone of the inhumane treatment of the Palestinians and Israel's refusal to live up to her promises and give them a State on 67 lines in accordance with international law which is a Palestinian Right not a bargaining chip to be stolen bit by bit. Arguably the roots of all that come from the racism within Israeli itself. You yourself have previously indicated your approval to ethnic nationalism in conversation with me. Ethnic Nationalism was the backdrop to the holocaust and not only the killing of Jews but the killing of all the others who were different. For looking at the intrinsic nature of racism in Israel one does not need to even look at Israel's treatment of Palestinian Israeli citizens. One can start with the Mizrahi. Are you unaware of the racism towards them intrinsic in Israeli society. I was interested the other day to come upon this article of a Mizrahi Jew in Britain speaking about how their culture and identity was denied because the identity which is presented of Jews is that they are all holocaust survivors. You will find plenty of articles there concerning the racism towards these people. However at the time reading it and being in an open space - that is feeling the problem of racism in Israel has been acknowledged, how can it be dealt with. The article above made me feel that it was time for Jews to let go of the Holocaust. Of course it happened and it will never be forgotten but it happened 70 years ago and it did not just happen to Jews. It would be good if holocaust remembrance was for all the people who were killed. Then we all could stand together and say 'Never Again' and mean together we were there to stop this happening again to any people. Then Jews could come into the family of nations rather than continually keeping themselves apart and then Israel could recognise all her people not just those who were harmed by the holocaust. I did not put that in at the time because because I wanted to do it in a sympathetic manner. I am not saying I have now but your denial that Israel is rotten with racism drew me to point out that Israel and according to the author of the article I gave British Jewry are racist towards Jews who do are not Ashkenazi and in this instance the reason appeared to be because the definition of a Jew, the entire culture of a Jew had become the holocaust. Perhaps you live in a tiny circle of friends and have never noticed the racism and inequality in Israel. Perhaps it is something you accept and believe is right so strongly that you do not notice it or perhaps you believe you can just say it does not exist and that is sufficient. That however is not how other Jews see it, never mind others. As I said I have seen no paper deny what he said. On the contrary they tended to welcome it. It may hurt but as I have said throughout this thread, acknowledging it is important. Without so doing it cannot be changed. It seems this has not been difficult for many Israelis given that they appear to welcome rather than deny what your President said. I am sorry it is for you.
Racism is Israel ? Sick Israeli society ? Ishmael Khaldi, Israels Deputy Consul General to the U.S. Pacific Northwest See http://www.aish.com/jw/id/98910714.html
You write alot (and I appriciate it) but my time is limited.....my boss expects me to work sometimes.. Ill just say Im happy you show signs of recognizing political sides in Israel and addressing messege rather than generelize millions of ppl. ill read on later.
