LGBT Issues, Children and Education by Progressive Patriot 2.12.14

Many people who rail against gay marriage and gay rights have deluded themselves into believing that if we do not support and allow marriage, the issue will somehow go away. They claim that children will be taught that homosexuality is normal and good. Well know this, LGBT issues and people are a part of modern culture and depriving gays rights will not change that and you can’t shield the children from it.

Children always have and always will struggle with their developing sexuality including sexual orientation and gender identity issues. In the past, for the most part, children were left to try to understand these things alone and in silence. They would feel guilty and confused about any sexual matters and especially any LGBTI issues. Today, there is much open discussion about these issues-in the print and social media, among peers, on television, just about everywhere. In this electronic society where kids spend much of their days on line, it cannot be avoided. Many children know an LGBT child or adult. Children hear and see this all, and like it or not, they are very much aware. As we progress as a society, more and more of that discussion is positive, and young people are much more accepting of those who are different than many adults care to imagine. There is nothing short of criminalizing these lifestyles, and snuffing out free speech-in effect becoming Russia-that anybody can do about it. Can anyone dispute or refute any part of this statement?
My next question is: What do parents, educators and the rest of us do? Here are some options:

1. Do nothing, be silent. Leave the children to their own devices to figure things out for themselves. After all, that’s the way it was 30, 40, 50 years ago and everything was just fine. Or was it? In any case, this is now, times are different and sexuality is a much more salient part of life and discourse. This may not be a great option, if it ever was.

2. Condemn homosexuality openly and vehemently. Doing so will have the effect of marginalizing LGBT kids, crushing them with guilt, and setting them up for bullying. Then all that will be left to do is to keep tract of the suicides and mass shootings.

3. Engage in constructive dialogue with the kids and among ourselves as adults. Dispense with the hysteria and misinformation and start to deal with this as part of our human experience. We could dispense with rhetoric about “promoting homosexuality” and the scare tactics such as it leading to incest, polygamy and bestiality. Rather, the emphasis would be on human relations, not sex because relationships are really what it’s about. We could just let kids know that they are OK and loved no matter who and what they are…….because whatever they are, that’s what they are going to be. Maybe, just maybe it’s time to make a choice between ideology and religion on one hand, and the children that we claim to care so much about on the other. The only question is ….will they be happy, confident and secure, or guilt ridden, miserable and confused.

However, you still have ass hats who want to pretend that the issue will just go away. That is ignorant and dangerous. Fortunately , one community had the good sense to know it is wrong and fought back:

 

Seriously Tony? We're waiting. Do you think that the revolt is waiting for all 50 states to have marriage equality? I would think that if there were to be a revolt, 32 states would be enough.

What a jackass! Gay people have and raise children! Children need parents and it doesn't matter what equipment those parents have between their legs. There are already millions of children living with at least one gay caregiver and those children benefit by having married parents. People who claim that children are harmed by same sex marriage are either stupid or hypocritical and liars

The fall of Communism? Get real!

How is that Matt? Families destroyed. Bovine Excrement! Any specifics to offer?

 

I believe in keeping all ideology out of public schools period. The only purpose to include any form of ideology is to induct children into it. Children are a very popular target for all sorts of ideologies, and i feel they should be kept safe from them all.

The only thing that a child should learn is skills that would make them productive members of society.

Teaching children things about homosexuality, religion, politics, should be left up to the parents. Such is their right.

School should be a safe place for children to learn, and any form of ideology threatens children's safety.

The proof is Jane Elliot's blue eyes brown eyes experiment.

With private schools I have no problem. Such is their right and their choice.

But children in public schools have zero choice at all.

 

Seriously? So biology and health classes should pretend homosexuality doesn't exist, history and geography classes should pretend religion doesn't exist and history and civics classes should pretend politics doesn't exist?

Teaching about these things is vital and indeed unavoidable if you're going to provide any kind of fundamental core education. Clearly there is a sometimes difficult balance to be struck between teaching and preaching but the idea that this can be resolved by doing away with the teaching entirely is ridiculous.

 

And people wonder why private and charter schools have become popular.
Parents have more control on curriculum and rightly so. Public schools are filled with junk.

 

charter schools are public schools.....

 

Correct but structured different. At my location charter schools also have waiting list and in some cases a lottery.

Parents have gained control and are pro active. Imagine that, input from the parents about ones own child.

 

so your statement was wrong thanks for admitting it. How exactly are parents in control of charter schools?

 

What is your problem? Charter schools operate using the private school model. Use google to educate yourself and then come back to me.

And good morning Karma, you seem a little wound tight this morning? My statement about public junk schools stands. Private and most Charter schools outperform public schools.

 

How does this in any way address the OP in which I provided three choices as to how to deal with sexuality issues as parents and educators?Three choices. State you preference and the reason for it. It matters little whether it is a private or public school. We cannot pretend that it does not exist and we cannot shield the children from it. If you want to debate charter vs. public education start your own thread.

 

I will go with parents for $1,000.00 Alex.

Butt out of other peoples lives and parental beliefs. Stop polluting the curriculum with your hyper sensitive fears.

Never mind, I just realized that you are the straight man that baby sits gay threads. I am wasting my time with such a one trick pony.

 

Apparently you think that childhood development and education is a joke. I started this thread for a reason. It's an issue that I'm concerned about I dealt with it in the real world in my career in social services. What have you done? How would you deal with childhood and adolescence issues?

 

You can't raise children in a fish tank. Schools are where they learn things about society by being in society. There are gay students and teachers. They don't stay in the closet any more.

Teachers may not teach anything about social things but kids are learning.

The part that is up for grabs is whether or not the parents remain credible. A 12 year old finds out their parents were attempting to tell them something that isn't real...good luck with that one.

 

Are you suggesting that schools should be required to teach whatever the parents demand of them, regardless of the truth or consistency? If parents say 2+2=5, Germany won WWII and babies come from cabbage patches, that should be what the schools teach? What happens when two parents have contradictory beliefs?

You can make a valid point about lessons regarding birth control but you're going way beyond that now.

 

I did not suggest anything, Parents are seeking out private and Charter schools for good reason. Most parents want good education for the child. What Parents do not want is the curriculum filled with junk.

As for your examples below I do not know what to do with it, it is silly at best.

 

What exactly do you consider junk? Real science? Meaningful sex education? Discussions about real life issues and problems? Support and help with personal issues? What?

 

What parents want is what they believe isn't junk. The problem is that different parents will have entirely different ideas about what is and isn't junk. No school (including private ones) can possibly satisfy the demands of all the parents. This kind of thing is part of the point of having set curricula in the first place.

 

Good, you seem to think parents should have control = Parental rights. Local choices in the school district is the correct way to reflect the collective goal for that community. As it stands this centralized core stinks. Give the control to parents and local boards.

No problem.....

 

So if a local board at the behest of parents in Bogalusa Mississippi wants to teach children that the earth is flat, that there were dinosaurs on the Arc, and all homosexuals are going to hell, that would be OK? Ya think those kids might have a problem adjusting if they were to move to, say Washington DC at some point?

 

More silly (*)(*)(*)(*) and drama. Yup....we parents want the world to be flat. And you represent social services as a chosen career?

Anyways, stop putting up barriers between parents and the children. I am pro parent and will never be a component of some dude who babysits gay threads claiming he is straight while on a forum asking for more curriculum and power.

Not going to happen. In short, you pay attention to your children and leave mine alone and I will in return respect the same.

:

 

Rambling on and attempting to belittle me is not helping your credibility any. You keep ranting about parental control and taking pot shots at common core but you never once stated an objective concern about it. Do you even know what common core is or how it works?

Also, parental rights have limits. Parents do not have a right to do things that will result in children being emotionally damaged or undereducated idiots. That's call emotional abuse and educational neglect

And I'm still waiting for an honest and rational answer to my question in the OP. Not holding my breath though

 

For some reason you think you have authority over children that do not belong to you or never will. Sorry, can not help you.

I can say that my 2 grown children are well adjusted happy adults now and I am thankful that you played no role.

As polite as I am going to be.

Have fun with your mission in life.

 

I’m happy to hear that your children are well adjusted. Unfortunately, not all are. Too many are terribly screwed up by bad parents with strange ideas about education and child rearing in general.

As a former agent of the state, I most certainly did have authority over parental practices that were outside of the law. The law is clear about certain things that parents must do and certain things that they may not do. There are grey areas to be sure such as what constitutes emotional abuse. Often, that must be assessed based on the effects on the child.

Having said that, let me try to get you refocused on the OP and the topic of this thread: LGBT Issues, Children and Education. In my opinion, one of the most egregious things that a parent or an educator can do is to reject, marginalize, or in any way condemn a child who is experiencing sexual orientation issues or gender identity issues. Doing so often leads to mental health problems, drug abuse, and suicide.

I find it interesting and tell that someone who claims he knows what is right for children keeps ducking the question about how parents and educators should respond the issues about sexuality, which, like it or not will surely come up. Go ahead, give it a shot!

 

I actually agree with you. Parents should be their childrens' primary educators. And that involves participating in school. I am perfectly good with teachers sticking to math, science, history, languages, and so forth. Teachers should, and I believe for the most part they do, make knowledge understandable and attainable to children.

But there is more education occurring in schools than what teachers are teaching. I remember asking my parents if I could attend private school. I had gotten an invitation and a voucher. And my dad (greatest man I have ever known) explained it very simply to me. He said "polydectes, if you go to a private school you don't learn how to deal with the worst people, you grow up in a fish tank among others that have grown up in a fish tank. And you lose out on some lessons only public school can teach."

I thought long and hard about that. It was the best thing he ever did for me. He caused me to evaluate my future and at 14 I hadn't really given it that much thought.

The truth be told there isn't any groups making children more accepting of alternative sexualities it's their friends coming out. Their compassion for children that commit suicide. We should be proud of them. They are not bound by what bound us. They have grown. Even if they grow up to not accept homosexuality as... Whatever people are allegedly forcing the public to accept it as... They see people for their personhood, not their race, religion, sexual orientation, or whatever.

I think most people would support that ideal.

Of course there is indoctrination in schools, I remember as a youth having people come to our schools and tell us all about the rainforest and how it will all be gone by the time I was as old as I am today. How the world would be under 500 feet of water due to "global warming."

My dad, the MAN!, educated me on it. So at nine years old I knew those idiots were full of crap. Parents need to educate children. That doesn't mean homeschool, I graduated from public school. They taught me things he couldn't, and my mom couldn't. But when it was hundreds of so called "educators" against one man and woman, they didn't stand a chance. Because I trust them. They love me, they didn't want to just secure future votes from impressionable young minds. This is the way it should be. If your kid comes home and tells you something you know isn't true, you correct them. If you still hold their respect they will believe you over anybody.

 

it is the place of the school to teach kids math, English (yes, English) , actual science (not the Gore film), history (without discussing who had gay sex)

there are tests to determine that kids learned the basics

Beyond that, if a parent wishes to send their child to a Catholic school, or an art themed school, then so be it as long as the basics are met and not some leftist social construct