Too Old to Keep Around – But Perfect for Fighting ISIL!

They have been trying to retire the A-10 forever and each time they try another conflict emerges which shows its usefulness.

Fighting ISIS or whatever they want to be called now may be the Warthogs last horah, but I know she will go out with a bang. Nothing in our arsenal strikes fear into the hearts of our enemies better than the A-10 and AH-64. It's almost humorous to see terrorists literally throwing down their weapons and running when they see them coming overhead.

Good luck to that squadron and the men and women who have the privilege of flying that beast. Give em hell guys. I know you will.

 

Especially in a day and age where that "one thing" is pretty much the main thing we NEED aircraft to do. Yes we must remain dominant on paper and always stand ready for a WWIII scenario, but in reality we are fighting a ground war right now and will be in the foreseeable future. Go talk to the troops who have been on the ground. I won't speak for all of them but I will speak for me (and I know quite a few combat troops....). We didn't really care when we heard F/A-18s, F-15s, F-16s etc flying overhead, we knew what they were doing which was....flying overhead, and may occasionally drop a bomb on somebody once in a blue moon after pulling teeth to MAYBE get clearance from a General somewhere. And guess what, the enemy knew that too. They didn't care if they saw jets flying they knew the jets weren't going to bomb them.

When we saw A-10s and AH-64s overhead we knew exactly what that meant...and the enemy knew it too.

Sometimes a one trick pony is necessary when you're fighting a one trick pony war. Last US dogfight was 25 years ago. Last time we needed to attack somebody on the ground was yesterday.

 

These are the things that many people don't understand. We are fighting a guerrilla war right now this isn't a conventional army. No conventional army is going to go toe to toe with the US military in the foreseeable future due to the fact that we have the most powerful military in the world. It's literally suicide to fight the US head on with conventional means, everyone knows that. We will be fighting terrorism for years if not decades. Wars like this require air to ground assets more than ever. We aren't going to be dropping bombs on tank columns or APC columns we need to be able to strike light trucks and human beings from the sky. F-16s, F/A-18's etc can't do that as well as a pure CAS aircraft like the A-10.

Plus they aren't designed for it. Fighter jets aren't designed to take punishment like that. Yes they can take a beating I've seen videos of an F-15 land successfully after having its damn wing ripped off in a mid air collision. Constant exposure to small arms fire is something a CAS aircraft can take. A fighter...not so much. It CAN (sort of) but not really. Thats why A-10s and AH-64s are designed to be flying tanks. Its not uncommon at all to see them come back riddled with bullet holes or even have parts of the aircraft blown off. It's also designed to fly at those slow speeds which is why the wings are shaped the way they are. Jets aren't designed to fly that slow they don't handle as well.

Just because an aircraft CAN drop bombs doesn't mean it can do so effectively in this current theater of operations in these close quarter environments. The A-10 carries air to air missiles but I 110% guarantee you that if the E-3 Sentry pings enemy fighter jets on radar, even if its older Mig-21s or something the very first thing that A-10 pilot is going to do is scream "HELP!!" and turn and run away as fast as it can. And the real fighters will be right there. It "can" shoot down an enemy plane but its not going to, its going to run away because its not designed for that, we have birds designed for that.

Just like when our ground boys are in contact and they scream "HELP!!" the first thing that F-16 flying overhead is going to do is say "Hey guys I'm circling overhead, Hogs and Apaches enroute Ill circle until they arrive". Yes that F-16 "can" drop a JDAM on somebody but he can't do it in a city or he "can" use his gun to strafe targets but he won't, its not designed for that, we have birds designed for that.

"Multirole" fighters are designed for a conventional war where they can drop cluster bombs or JDAMs or something on enemy stuff in the open. This IS NOT a conventional war. The Taliban doesn't have tank columns driving around in formation. And after about 36 hours after we arrive neither will ISIS or any other terrorist wannabe real army. Thats where real CAS birds come in, to pick them off when they aren't riding around in formation. Something a "multirole" fighter just cannot do I don't care how damn good the pilot is.

 

Them trying to scrap the A-10 isn't really anything new. The reason its a big deal right now is because of the conflicts we are in. The military has been moving towards a "multirole" mission for a lot of things for years. Instead of having specific aircraft for specific roles they are trying to have 1 airframe that can be outfitted to do multiple things. For example they are trying to replace the KC-135 fuel tanker aircraft by converting C-17 cargo planes into fuel tankers. They have gotten rid of the scout OH-58 Kiowa helicopter and have upgraded the new AH-64E model to do both scouting and attack. They came up with that STRYKER vehicle that can be outfitted to carry troops like an APC, carry mortars, or stick a 105mm gun on the top and make it act like an Abrams tank. Just like the new F-35 is supposed to be outfitted to fly from carriers, take off like a Harrier, maneuver like an F-22, etc.

That works in some cases, but sometimes "one size fits all" just doesn't work. A STRYKER is a decent ground vehicle but its not an Abrams tank. But since we aren't exactly fighting tank on tank battles it can do the job. But we are fighting a war that requires weapons delivery systems that just aren't available in these multirole jets.

The military doesn't have a replacement CAS aircraft for the A-10. Thats the problem. They are relying on multirole jets for that role but those jets can't do what the A-10 does.

To be honest the absolute best all around air to ground attack aircraft is a helicopter like the AH-64 or the AH-1Z. They are much more maneuverable than a fixed wing plane and can literally chase you down a zig zag alleyway whereas a fixed wing bird has to make its gun run then fly out and turn around and come back. A helo can go as fast or as slow as it wants and can go up, down, left, right, backwards, stop in mid air and hover, etc. Plus the guns on attack helos swivel as well unlike fixed wing birds to they don't have to do "gun runs" they can just sit fly around slowly and pluck people off no matter where they go. The problem is that since they are helicopters they can't carry as much fuel and can't go as far as a fixed wing plane. So they are limited to the amount of time they can hang around.

If the military could give an attack helo the range of a fixed wing plane then I'd say scrap fixed wing CAS aircraft all together because they would no longer be needed. The only real reason the A-10 is still around and hasn't been replaced by AH-64s and AH-1Z's is because of its longer range and increased payload. Choppers can do everything the A-10 can do but better they just can't go as far or as fast.

 

Yeah thats true, I was mainly thinking about these current wars and not really thinking about "real" wars that may arise in the future.

 

Show me the last time the GAU-8 was actually used for its intended purpose.

 

I agree 100%. I've been on both sides of the spectrum, a ground pounder and a flyboy and I can attest to how nervous people get on the ground when calling in airstrikes from fast movers. We called in an F-16 to drop some JDAM's one day and all we kept doing was nervously joking to each other saying we really hope this JTAC is as good as he thinks he is and we damn sure hope that pilot doesn't miss.

Like you said, explosions and whatnot look and sound really cool on video but its a whole other story when you are on the ground and even a 500lb bomb goes off somewhere near you. Very few things are more terrifying than literally putting your life in the hands of a JTAC and a pilot who can't see you and just hoping that they are both perfect. Our JTAC's and pilots are absolutely top notch professionals and DAMN GOOD at what they do, I'll never take anything away from them, but I still felt much more comfortable when A-10s and AH-64s were overhead than I did with F/A-18s and F-16s. I know those jets have the technology and skill to literally drop a bomb on someones welcome mat but I'd still much rather have somebody who can actually see me before they release ordinance in my direction.

Thats why I love helo's they can see exactly where you are and where the enemy is. It's very comforting to hear a pilot say "Is that you guys waving? Roger we have you in sight, just to confirm have the guy next to you wave right now, ok just making sure we're actually looking at you guys. You are the last man right, no more friendlies north of you? Confirmed we got you covered we're engaging everything north of the guys waving". Just to know that they can see you is very comforting, I absolutely hated holding my breath hoping that our JTAC wasn't just a little off when giving grid coordinates and we would have a 500lb landing in our lap.

As you know from experience, the difference between a bomb landing on the enemy and accidentally landing in your lap is literally screwing up ONE number on a grid. That's just scary to think about.