Quantum entanglement across time

Discussion in 'Science' started by wgabrie, Dec 23, 2014.

  1. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    The first quantum entanglement of photons through space and time.
    Scientists in Israel managed to entangle photons across time, where the first photon was destroyed before the last photon began to exist, yet the first photon and the last were entangled and shared properties.

    This is one of the quirks of quantum mechanics showing that aspects of it transcend time, called 'non-local' when effects happen regardless of what time it is. Things can bind to other things across time! :omg:
     
    waltky and (deleted member) like this.
  2. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    I think there is also a logical arrangement to this entanglement across time.

    It's called the Law of Syllogism. basically a group of conditional statements can be reduced to form a valid argument, connecting the first with the last like so:
    if p, then q.
    if q, then r.
    therefore if p, then r.

    That's just something I think about when judging the HOW of how it was done.
     
  3. Methusala

    Methusala Banned

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    This sounds like the p versus np or something problem in programming, yes? you can read about it in the works of Brett Nortje.
     
  4. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    I'm not sure about that. Mainly because I can't wrap my mind around the p vs np problem right now.

    I'm just noticing the string of events that leads from the 1st particle through 2,3 and finally to the 4th particle.
     
  5. Clan_Of_Wroth

    Clan_Of_Wroth New Member

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    That is awesome. Are there other sources?
     
  6. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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  7. AlpinLuke

    AlpinLuke Well-Known Member

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    Once the principal of locality is surpassed, and it's not a little step, nothing can avoid that this means also non contemporary existence. If energy / information can be transmitted in a not local way in the space time it's not related only to space systems of reference, but also temporal. It's clear. To state where something is, it's not enough if we don't add WHEN it is there.
     
  8. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well, with non-local time things connect across time and affect themselves despite not sharing the same place and the same time.

    As opposed to Local time which is the tick-tick-tick of the passage of time and all that matters is NOW.
     
  9. AlpinLuke

    AlpinLuke Well-Known Member

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    The principal of locality [I remind this to myself] is fundamental.

    When we blow and a sheet of paper moves, we make that sheet of paper move just because [locally] our mouth makes pressure on air, that air transmits this pressure [kinetic energy] to other air ... which transmits [locally] this energy to other air ... until this energy reaches the sheet of paper making it moving.

    It's exactly why in the vacuum the vibration we call "sound" cannot be transmitted. There is nothing to transmit it at local level.

    It's obvious that this transmission can be only within the limit of the speed of light.

    The entanglement poses a little problem: if the principal of locality can be surpassed in some way, how can we be sure to deal with semi-close systems? Einstein doubted that in such a context empirical science could survive ...

    Of course, as usual Quantum Mechanics has to be left in its proper field of application [classic mechanics works as well, if we avoid to take a look at the extreme little].

    Anyway ... Extreme point: what if a particle in entanglement passes the event horizon of a black hole? Will that entanglement be erased or not? Will the information of the entanglement be "recorded" in the EH?
     
  10. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    A very good question about the Black Hole. I don't know. I assume that an entangled pair of particles would remain entangled even if one of them went into the black hole and the other one remained on the outside.

    I'm pretty sure we're not there yet with the Physics to explain it. Or whether it'd be useful for examining the Black Hole.

    Of course if there's a non-local element the effects might be there even before a particle enters the Black Hole. But I'm not sure.

    Maybe this is why they need to record the information from both sides of the pair to make heads or tails of it. And that limits the usefulness to the Speed of Light.
     
  11. 10A

    10A Chief Deplorable Past Donor

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    That's the basics of Hawking Radiation and ironically where Hawking went wrong. What goes into the black hole is not really lost, but becomes an observable hologram, while the other particle is radiated.
     
  12. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    An OBSERVABLE HOLOGRAM???

    OK....where did this nonsence come from?

    AboveAlpha
     
  13. 10A

    10A Chief Deplorable Past Donor

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    From black hole thermodynamics and string theory...Hooft, Thorn, and Susskind. Look up the Holographic Principle.

    I'm almost surprised someone as supposedly self-enlightened as you claim missed it. Almost.
     
  14. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Yeah...those morons have no clue.

    First of all even if they were using the word Holographic as a representation...which they are not....it really has no place in such a concept.

    Black Holes are Singularities and as such are ripping through our Universal Space-Time.

    And since we are talking about a Singularty which is in essence a 1-D reality....the Space-Time Geometry would not allow anything to escape Quantum Level or not.

    AboveAlpha
     
  15. 10A

    10A Chief Deplorable Past Donor

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    Yeah, ok, PhD's in physics have no clue but you know better. ROFL. Let me know when you win a Nobel prize in physics.
     
  16. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    OK....suppose you tell me how they justify even using the word Holographic?

    AboveAlpha
     
  17. 10A

    10A Chief Deplorable Past Donor

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  18. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    I am aware of their work I just don't agree with it and they did this work what?...back in the late 1980's and perhas published in the early 1990's?

    This is an old and outdated concept and I never could understand WHY they ever chose to use the word or even associative concept of a Hologram.

    Space-Time exists specific to it's Geometry and this if the Geometry is not there...and it's not in a Singularity...then NOTHING is coming out of it and nothing is being radiated or broadcast or whatever.

    AboveAlpha
     
  19. 10A

    10A Chief Deplorable Past Donor

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    More gibberish from an idiot.
     
  20. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Really?

    That's the way you want to come at me?

    So...rather than attempting to detail why you believe this concept or theory has validity you instead just insult those who disagree?

    I would just LOVE to read how you would explain how Quantum Particle/Wave Forms can escape a Singularity.

    But then again...I forgot...you can't.

    AboveAlpha
     
  21. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

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    It is the phenomena called interference. There are correlations that are a very fundamental part of the nature of the universe. It's not necessarily a signal. All that quantum "randomness" is not actually really so random. It's still entangled across space and time. Think of entanglement as a correlation, one that is required to conserve universal laws, but which ends up having far-reaching implications.

    It no doubt has to do with the nature of the existence of matter itself, which we still do not fully understand.

    No one is really sure, though of course there are several theories.

    Entanglement never truly gets "erased", though it effectively does for practical purposes in many situations. And there are all sorts of ways information could theoretically escape from a black hole, too complicated to go into here.
     
  22. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Please detail ONE Theoretical Example by where ANYTHING information or otherwise could escape a Singularity?

    AboveAlpha
     
  23. Gelecski7238

    Gelecski7238 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    “Non-local” disguises scientific dogma, the reluctance to consider the phenomenon to be outside of/beyond space-time, does it not? Einstein said that space-time is an illusion.

    Entanglement action is faster than light speed. But nothing travels faster than the speed of light in space-time. Therefore entanglement is transmitted outside of/beyond space-time.

    Realization of whatever is outside of/beyond space-time may well require thinking outside the box.

    Einstein was right about empirical science becoming useless in certain domains. The shortcomings of determinism are starting to show.
     
  24. AlpinLuke

    AlpinLuke Well-Known Member

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    Overall, it's the quantum approach to the "all" ... usually it's said that there are three base principals in the theory [this came from the criticisms by Einstein and others]:

    * the principal of locality
    * the principal of reality
    * the principal of completeness

    If the first two principals are respected, it's obvious that the third one is not respected ... quantum mechanics is not complete.

    Anyway, the approach of QM is different: it puts the principal of reality before of the principal of locality, so that the theory presents localities [like in the fields theory] and not localities [like the entanglement] when the principal of reality wins.

    So, to Einstein we could answer [like scientists have answered] that quantum theory is complete, but more real than local.
     
  25. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    The most likely REASON that QM is incomplete is because QM goes beyond one single Universal State of Reality.

    Even Many Worlds Theory is too limited and this is why Multiversal Theory which takes into account not only Infinite Divergent Universal States as a part of a Single Universal Baseline Reality.....but as well Multiversal Theory also takes into account INFINITE BASELINE REALITIES as well.

    AboveAlpha
     

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