"Wrong"

Wrong. Wrong by what standard? Factually? Gramatically?

You often hear bigots espousing their "morality", saying that they only stand for what's right. Where does this moral even come from? Murder is labeled immoral because it deprives one of one's life, theft of one's property, rape of one's right to their own body, but what do I deprive you of by loving another man? Does it pluck out your eye or set fire to your house?

I'm reminded of Nietzsche, if I may bring of philosophy for a bit. Nietzsche viewed morality as a herd instinct, as something dogmatic that's used by followers to keep people in line with the crowd. Nietzsche didn't advocate for senseless hedonistic crime, mind you. Nietzsche instead suggested that people abandon the morality of the masses and instead build their own virtues and values.

In this situation, morality is being used as a bludgeon by the fearful and bigoted with which to harm others. My virtues and values happen to be empathy and compassion, so you can imagine why I take issue with this.

 

Many of the same rightwing homophobes who talk about "defending traditional marriage" in their opposition to gay marriage....are fans of thrice-divorced, quadruple-married Rush Limbaugh.

Same rightwingers who bemoan "children brought up without a father" or how "vital it is that children are with their biological parents"......are fans of Laura Ingraham, single adoptive mother.

Same rightwingers who demand "religious liberty" to ban gay marriages......would oppose a church having the right to marry a gay couple.

Same rightwing men who drool over lesbian-oriented porn.....and then come to blogs to talk about how "homosexuality is an abomination."

 

It seems to me that "Traditional" is a codeword for "Things I can't justify but want to protect anyway".

 

As well as being the logical fallacy of appealing to tradition, just because something has been "that way" doesn't mean it is right . .it is when these anti-SSM people are challenged on the logic of not allowing SSM that they start grasping at straws.

They are all for the freedom of the individual as long as it aligns with what they think is right.

 

Gay people are born and wired gay. I have a little brother, James who was a homosexual. It was pretty obvious even from a young age, and when he did finally come out of the closet at the age of 16 no one in my family was surprised. We (me and my dad) were bigoted towards him, but we weren't shocked at all. You didn't have to have gaydar to pick up on that case. But you can't tell me he all of a sudden one day decided to "choose" that. So if it wasn't a choice, if he was wired this way, how can it be wrong? Many things go against nature, but that's nature for ya. Unnatural is just another word for different as far as I'm concerned, because we see unnatural behavior in nature all the time.

My brother was gay. He didn't have a choice. But I did have a choice. I had the choice to accept him for what he was, or to shun him based on bigotry. I chose the latter, and so did my father and many at his school (though he had plenty of friends who loved and supported him). And it was probably due to those actions by me and others that drove him to commit suicide.

There was only one wrong committed here, and it wasn't his homosexuality.

Case was ruled an accident, but he left a note on his Facebook wall a week prior outlining what he would do and reached out to several friends of his who reached out to me, letting me know what he had really intended. My brother Jaime was in so much grief because of all the bull(*)(*)(*)(*) handed his way over the last several years of his life that he couldn't take it anymore.

http://prev.dailyherald.com/story/?id=319897

 

I also want to add that I'm one of the biggest advocates of LGBT rights you'll ever meet. Sucks that it had to take a tragedy for me to come around. I'm not even religious, my opposition towards homosexuality was 100% ignorance and stupidity.

 

Jim Crow was a "tradition"....wasn't it?

 

Most homophobia is.....but there is also a certain segment, obvious from some male posters on this blog, where it's based on SELF-hatred, because they are themsleves homosexual, trying to live as straights because they were raised to believe that homosexuality was evil. And thus like the "Klansman with 'black blood'"....they scream the loudest.

 

No. Segregation was new. It was just a bunch of bigots who got tired of sharing things with non whites and decided to pass laws allowing them to stop having to.

Look at baseball. Back in the late 1800's, baseball was fully integrated even in the south. It was not segregated until the jim crow laws passed.

 

From what I've been told by some Southerners I've talked to, Jim Crow laws were revenge for the ending of slavery.

Which again, makes the Civil War about slavery and not about state's rights.

So what about liberal tradition? You should know about John Locke, some people consider him the father of modern liberalism.

One thing he wrote is this:

So, is this a bigoted statement by ignorant bigots?

Is john lock an ignorant bigot?

What about the creators of the Constitution? That's a pretty liberal document, because, liberals are for change and the Constitution enacted a lot of change but has not become a tradition.

freedom of speech, a radical liberal ideal, is a tradition. But I guess it's invalidated because the creators were bigots for creating a brand new, at the time, tradition.

I find the entire op inconsistent and in poor taste.

 

Well said. One of my biggest issues with religion is that it at times places a negative judgment upon an harmless action. The problem here is that what constitutes harm is subjective and relative to the individual. Many religions have a universal take on morality, backed by the authority of a God who will condemn you to places like hell if you dare disobey.

I understand that my morality is relative to me and does not extend past the end of my nose. Sadly some religious types believe their morality is in line with a universal morality and use this as the basis to judge those who do not conform to their beliefs. But on the flip side I am betting that there are many secularists that have universal binary views on morality too.

 

To me its a reflection of the establishment which is IMO a conservative ideal. If it ain't broke then why fix it (I would imagine my former conservative self would argue). But broke when in the context of society is subjective as broke to one will be anything but to another.

 

WOW! I am floored as I honestly do not think that I have ever read a more impactful testimony. If this does nothing to sway others away from bigotry nothing will...

I have respect for your changed attitude yet am saddened by the price paid to gain it. Let not your brothers death be in vain.

 

Everybody's bigoted and hateful in some way. Mostly people just exchange one bigotry for another.

 

How many YEARS between Plessy v. Ferguson....and Brown v. Board of Educaiton?

 

sorry for your loss

I too lost a loved one to suicide and it took all of us quite a while to come to grips that it was a personal choice and misdirected guilt is unwarranted.

Your story is heart wrenching but it seems that a support group might be in order. It was not your fault nor do you bear even 1 shred of responsibility.

 

Morality causes humans to act in a predictable manner. This makes control of the masses possible.

It's not good or bad, it just is.

 

What do I deprive you of by believing "loving another man" is perverse, and saying so out loud? Hmmmmm?

 

Actually I'd suggest his "friends" deserve at least half the blame.

 

I rest my case

Neither we nor any other family need you to come and tell us that the death of our loved one is on our hands.

Most people can cope with what life hands them, some can't.

 

Being surrounded by decent people, for one.

 

If you think the actions and words of others have no effect on one's choice to commit suicide, then you are the personification of ignorance.

 

BS. You don't deprive me of anything if you love another man, and I don't care if you do or don't love another man. The problem is when you try to force people who are not hindering you to accept your lifestyle. I believe homosexuality is a sin, I do not condone it, I don't want homosexuality taught to my children as if it was equal to traditional marriage, but I also don't believe a homosexual should be treated differently by the government - and that means equal treatment in such things as insurance and taxation, and also not receiving favored legal status. People should not be dismissed or disqualified from a job if the sexual preference is not a factor of the job (such as being a church worker).

But that attitude of live and let live isn't enough for the gays. Repeatedly they have targeted and demonized people for holding anti-gay opinions, even when those people have not demonstrably hindered or harmed gays. Gays are now using their preferential legal status to attack thought - not action. That's the problem.

 

Straight person: "Gay marriage is stupid"

Gay person: (kills self)

Gays: "Straight person caused suicide!"


The only thing "common sense" about that.... is that it's common.

 

If you think a straight person saying "gay marriage is stupid" is what drives gay teens to kill themselves, you are even more ignorant than I thought.