In the USA blacks only account for ~14% of the population. However black males commit over 34% of rapes. Racist anti-white lefto whackos may claim that much of the violent crime committed by blacks is because of their economic conditions, however, in a violent crime such as rape there is no economic payoff. So that excuse does no apply. Why do blacks rape so much more often than whites? Share your thoughts...
No, there is no economic payoff, but I think you are missing the whole picture then when it comes to poor economic conditions. Poor economic conditions also brings with it poor education which obviously could have an effect on perception and could lead to a different standard of morality. Further, those in poor economic conditions are not just effected financially by those conditions but subconsciously, emotionally and egoistically. Meaning, people with a deep feeling of being deprived their whole life might at one point or another feel a loss of control, men in general when feeling a loss of control (I believe biologically) often seek to "take" what they want and often in an aggressive fashion. Those so "frustrated" by their conditions. Further there are obviously financial ramifications in a dating context. The same frustration may mount because of rejection by a female, which may be perceived as having to do with their economic status or further more because of their racial status. Also, culturally the "African American" community (these days I find you really need to define the word "black" because the word itself is lost without context as no group of people is actually black and NO guidelines can be met scientifically to designate someone as black, therefore this thing where people call other people black or white or yellow only has to do with skin color, and since not ALL people who have "black" skin are part of the African American community, logically they are not one in the same) has its share of what I would call poor too completely terrible and awful male role models. There are also cultural leftovers in certain African American communities (really I wonder if you can even call it African American communities if a large portion of those communities are now mixed race) that lend themselves towards aggression and misogynistic perception. Now of course I call them cultural leftovers as they are the remnants of a dead world where things like that were more acceptable as a whole to society. I think it can be inferred that communities that lack in economics and education progress towards modernity at a slower pace than those with money and quality or at least standard and not sub par education. Now I don't know the statistics, but where are they coming from ? Firstly is this 34% coming from convicted rapists? If it is then again there are numerous reasons why an African American male is more likely to be arrested and convicted. I would also ask in what specific communities are we talking and from where are these African Americans coming from? Are they fresh off the boat Africans? Islanders? And if they are Africans from what part of Africa are they from? Now if this 34% is mostly made up of African Americans who's ancestors have been here for over a 100 years or more, then I think that speaks even more to the cultural and economic reasons for the disparity. Now I will not discount the idea that genetics may play a role. While this is not proven, every year we are finding out that genetics and epigenetics play a larger and larger role in aspects of our lives we didn't realize and in changes in our bodies and minds that we did not think probable until recently. Now this is not to say that African genetics would be at fault here, not at all. This goes for any community of people that have been separated from the rest of society and breeding for many generations, or in part are the long product of a breeding program. This type of insular breeding is shown to hasten changes and narrow down the gene pool. It is also shown to cause more health and mental issues as we see in the Orthodox Jewish communities and in European Royalty. This is not to say that African Americans in these communities have been breeding with their siblings and cousins, but it is to say the gene pool of the local African American population in specific areas might be narrow. We also are unaware exactly of how certain traits are passed on, but we do know of something called the "Warrior Gene" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_oxidase_A). In short it is thought that this gene may lend itself to violent behavior and aggression and a unique proportion of released chemicals and I believe hormones included as well as depression. Now I am just using this gene as an example, however lets say a large portion of a population, which is semi segregated from the rest of the population has this Warrior Gene. Also, lets say the specifics of this culture and community tend to regard certain male traits as more attractive or perhaps even necessitate those traits for survival, like aggression would benefit someone in a more violent community perhaps. Well what would eventually happen? Women, either out of necessity, attraction or socialized tendency would produce more offspring with males with these traits and this gene right? That's what history tells us. So that gene would become more pronounced, and since this community was mostly breeding within itself, that would lend itself to even further the gene. Now I don't know the genetic makeup of rapists or African Americans or African American rapists, and I was just using the Warrior Gene as an example. But there are a number of DNA sequences we don't really understand, actually the majority of them. It can be hypothesized there are other genes which may work in the same manner but not necessarily for aggression, but perhaps sexual violence? Again none of this is proven, just theorized as a possible link to a real world issue. And again this is not an African American problem, or this would not be an African American problem, this would be an issue for sub-communities if they are breeding inclusively. Now, I believe it has a lot more to do with social and economic factors. But it is not out of the question that there are genetic factors, all be it unproven. As a hypothesis I think it would be fine to argue and believe you would have a very possible theory on your hands. But it certainly can not be claimed to be true at this point in time as I do not know of any genetic study on the matter. Maybe one is out there though? By the way I am in no real way liberal. I also hate the idea of white guilt, don't understand it and believe many light skinned people to be ethno-masochistic. I however would not, on this issue (or pretty much any issue) use the word "black" to describe the community you are discussing. Not because I think it's racist, just because I think it is scientifically unfounded and irresponsible in the context of such a discussion. I in fact am very objective I find when it comes to racism and don't fear discussing it. On some issues I might even agree with you that the liberal faction you speak of has done a great deal of damage to the minds of many a person in this country and altered the morality of our nation in a disgusting and impractical way. I would also say the idea of PC repulses me and the idea of what passes for morality on television these days is absolute neutering our populace. It's pretty awful in fact. However, rape in this case is not an issue I would blame the liberal media for capitulating on. In this case I believe there is a lot of truth to the factors you mentioned and in this case I believe the populace is objective about. You'll find when something as awful as rape takes place the majority of people can more easily look beyond race, women can more easily bond over their similarities and differences and truth tends to reign. The problem actually seems to be getting men to care more. Not than many men don't care, but enough don't to make greater changes. However, some are overstepping their bounds on this as in the law passed in I believe Michigan, legally mandating anyone on a college campus, or at least any male on a college campus needs to get some official document signed by the female stating this will be consensual sex. Now I am all for ridding the world of rape. But this is absolutely NOT the way to go about it, nor will this solve the problem. This is just an intrusion into people's personal lives and it better not spread to my State. If I were in that State and a college student, I would seriously be lobbying to get rid of this new and ridiculous law. However when it comes to how awful "white" people have been over the course of history or some such nonsense I have to say I am glad I don't consider myself "white". I may have light skin but I am certainly NOT "white", I am "other" now and forever and therefore am not bound mentally by "white" feelings of either guilt, shame or on the other end of the spectrum superiority. I think this is how more people of all skin tones need to think of themselves and others and is the only way you can end the racism on both sides. Oh yes on both sides, meaning once a group of people lump themselves into a group based on their skin color or the skin color of others, they instantly have become racist. Race doesn't exist so why should anyone have "pride" in it? What are you so proud of? The fact that your ancestors either got more or less UV rays than someone else? Kind of silly isn't it?
i9nteresting that white rape on black women in the US is so small as to be statitistically negligable whilst its massive the other way. Whatever the reason , and I suspect testosterone is a major cause, it is clear the black men are a far greater danger than white men when it comes to rape and when the left whine they should be firmly reminded of it.
There will always be a large number of people who basically deny that race is an issue here when it so blatantly is. If reliable statistics could be gathered from Africa (virtually impossible, except South Africa with a whopping 840,000 rapes per year (in a population of 52 million and rising) I'm sure the exact same can be found. It would quite easily explain the average birth rates of up to 7.00 and above (2.10 being considered replacement value, and developed nations being generally well underneath that). Rapes with no available abortions and contraceptives make an "excellent way" of increasing the population to ridiculous levels such as that which the whole world will be facing as Africa's population quadruples before 2100. It's ironic how Africans are the only one with these problems and then whinge "colonialism" when the entire world has been colonized and got over it so quickly. Japan gets two nuclear bombs on it and rebuilds into a world power. Singapore was colonized by the British, occupied by the Japanese and ends up one of the most advanced city states in all of history. In that same time; Africa sustains anything more than petty tribal wars that make very little impact on it's overall population, is full of natural resources, and is still hopeless. And naturally will be till the end of time. Just to rub it in further- they like to say they've been here perhaps 500,000 years while the same types say those "evil Europeans" have been here 6,000. What have they been doing all that time since they've gotten such a head start? Who makes such a big effort to deny that race exists given all that?
What about all of the rapes committed during American slavery by White men on Black women? Was that just cultural or was it also genetic? Complex social behavior can not be explained by genetics and the racial disparity in rape statistics is obviously caused by Socioeconomic factors. Poor people don't just have low income they are statistically more prone to substance abuse and domestic violence which can impact a child psychologically and make them more likely to grow up becoming a criminal including committing rape. You haven't really thought this through. You want to make a genetic claim because you are a racist but you don't really understand genetics. Lee Ellis in his work Theories of Rape had the same racialist ideas as you and so did J. Philippe Rushton who had an obsession with Black penis size and the idea that Blacks were oversexed due to evolutionary factors. All of this racist garbage was refuted by Joseph Graves.
A. I hope you are joking. B. If you are not joking, perhaps this issue is to complex for you? C. Perhaps someone of your specific lineage should consider how your ancestors bred in a way that actually lowered your intellectual capacity. D. You are basically arguing nature vs nurture, which has been relatively proven to both play a major role in the outcome from child to adult. E. Why would I make excuses? I am in no way bias on this issue. I do not consider myself white, but you would consider me white most likely. F. I too want to "jump the bones" of many of the women I see out and about in the world. What stops me from doing so? What stops those African Americans (and now I guess African) that don't "rape" who share whatever genes are being accused here, from raping? G. You are overlooking a long history of rape on this planet. Rape has a natural place in the human psyche. I don't mean to sound "sexist" here, but it has clearly been proven that women have "rape" fantasies, or at least what they would call "fantasies of being taken" and men have aggressive sexual fantasies about just "taking" a woman they don't know. ALL ethnic groups of men. Not just African, African American, European, North European, Chinese or Asian. ALLLLLLLLLL. Because such aggression serves a survival purpose in the animal kingdom (not as much in the modern world, but then please explain 50 Shades of Gray). This is NOT to say that women want to be "raped" and men want to "rape" this is to say you are dealing with a very old and very real part of the human psyche and not every man has the capacity to transform this sexual aggression in to a 21st century acceptable way. Meaning, I generally don't "wooo" women. I don't buy them crap, I don't date. I "take" a woman I am interested in. However, if I am stopped (you know pretty quickly if you are being stopped) I stop. Every time , whether I am drunk or whatever. What makes me capable of stopping and other people (of all colors) incapable of stopping? H. How do you explain the history of Viking rape, English rape on the Irish and Scotch and the English themselves, the Roman rape, the Mongolian rape (doesn't Ghengis have like 19 million descendants? No way that was all consensual), the Japanese rape, Chinese rape, Southern Rape, Confederate Rape, Nazi rape? Why do people without whatever specific gene being blamed, rape? I hope you understand, this issue is complicated and "rape" is something built into the foundation of the male human brain. Any man that denies this, I believe to be lying to themselves and others about this truth. I. I do not know how this effects homosexual men, nor do I know if this aspect of aggressively taking a mate is slowly being weeded out in certain populations. That seems to be part of what the liberal powers in this country are trying to do, which I think is a huge mistake. I cherish my aggressive tendencies. I think they are important to the human race and important to survival. To rid ourselves of these genes and these tendencies would also get rid of many positive traits because the urge to procreate is directly connected to the urge to "take" a mate. J. I have no problem admitting I have urges to take what I want. Im sorry if anyone is offended by that and understand why the public is so fearful of such things, but that is a product of misinformation and neutering that many (ignorant) people are pushing for these days. Eventually we wont even want to put our dingalings into their things if this keeps up and every baby will be a test tube baby. K. Did you not understand what I wrote though? It was far from excusing anyone of rape. What I was describing is a situation that needs to be managed. Rape will always exist in every community and in every ethnic group. Mediating that predisposition, controlling it, and educating about it are the only ways to minimize its occurrence. L. I am sure Africa currently does have a tremendous amount of rape. But honestly, have you seen the economic and social conditions in much of Africa? These communities are so far behind the times they mine as well be living in medieval Europe. By the way, if they had taken rape statistics in medieval Europe I think many would have claimed that Medieval Europeans just could not keep it in their pants. M. How are you discerning institutional rape (a conquering party raping the women of the conquered as the British Empire had a tendency towards in their colonies) to cases of modern individual "violent" rape? Of course all rape is violent but in these cases it is initiated by despair rather than the idea that it is your right via conquering. N. Again, RACE doesn't exist. Rayne stated "There will always be a large number of people who basically deny that race is an issue here when it so blatantly is." So Rayne, who are these "black" people you are actually speaking about? What haplogroups do they belong to, what genes do they share? What lineage do they have? You are using a continents inability to progress towards modernity as a sign of ethnic inferiority? But the dark skinned people in Africa are NOT the same gene pool as the dark skinned African Americans who are not the same gene pool as the dark skinned West Indians. So what gene pool is responsible for this exactly? There is no such thing as ONE African gene pool and not all dark skinned people share the same genes so I don't understand how you can make such a general and broad remark about people that are not really connected to one another through the majority of their DNA. What do you say towards Jews and West Asians and many Italians, Greeks and Spaniards who share in African haplogroups and DNA but just do not show their shared heritage in the form of skin color? O. You are overcompensating and ruining any insight you might actually have in to the awful things the liberal media is doing to the minds of people in this country. You are just as bad as the conspiracy theorist who speaks about actual facts having to do with oppression and mind control and then turns around and blames it all on Aliens wanting to take over the earth, or reptilians hiding under the skin of the "elite" class. P. It is obvious that the African American community has a larger proportion of rapists than other communities. It's a fact. But you can not only blame genetics because this group does not all share in the same gene pool. Therefore, again, while genetics may play a role, it is absolutely NOT 100% of the cause for real world rape. It is probably not even 50% but I guess its pointless to throw out arbitrary statistics. Statistics in general can be misleading if parts of the puzzle are missing, which they certainly are. Q. If you are going to argue about genetics and about "race" then you really need to inform yourself on how genetics actual work and how "race" does not actually exist in the scientific world. How can you possibly have any insight in to the issue of genetics if you don't even understand that not all "black" people are related and all "black" people don't share the same genetics? How? Ok. I will stop with the alphabet, >>>MOD EDIT Flamebait Removed<<<
Ok. While I agree with much of what you said, I have to say you are probably wrong in the fact that "Complex social behavior can not be explained by genetics and the racial disparity in rape statistics is obviously caused by Socioeconomic factors." The argument of nature vs nurture is over and neither side won, meaning both sides play a large role in social behavior. Getting in there and figuring out what comes from what is almost impossible though and genetics that lead towards whatever tendency still need to be "nurtured" or activated in some fashion. To just blame NURTURE (socioeconomic conditions) is just as wrong as it would be to just blame GENETICS. If you try to discuss one without the other you really will not give or receive the entire picture. The studies you lay out do not by any means negate the idea that genetics may play a role in this. It does take the veil off of some stereotypes and shows that many of the stereotypes about physical characteristics are not true, but it does not disprove the idea that genetics very likely play a role. This division of ideas perplexes me. Why must so many choose sides in this matter and why do you have to be on either side of the fence? How hard is it to believe and why is it so hard to believe that both genetics and socioeconomics play a role in behavior?
My immediate thoughts while reading this thread: There is no excuse for rape period, so damn all the justifications/excuses/reasons. If black males are committing over 34% of rapes, who is committing the other 66%? The OP's question tries to paint black men as the face of rape, when the majority of rapes are committed by white men against white women. If we stop thinking about race for a split second and look a little closer, we see that the majority all rape is committed by men. The question should be "What compels a man to feel a need to violently force himself onto a woman?" . . . . . . . . . . My thoughts after looking at some statistics: White men are committing the 65 of the 66% of the other rapes. Whites & Blacks were victimized most often by their own race Rapist are repeat offenders 34% of rapists were intoxicated "Wow, what compels a man to feel a need to violently force himself onto ANYONE!" Men were also victims of rape, and this includes male-on-male rape (military & prison)
As I stated in my post above this tendency is hardwired in to our brains. I freely admit this. I am not a rapist but I share in the male brain that wants to "take". You can not rid the human race of these tendencies and you can not and SHOULD not rid the male gender of these factors because they are connected to and related to other tendencies that make a male of our species what they are. I really don't mean to sound sexist, but you are dealing with one of the oldest and most primal parts of the brain here. The question isn't "why" at all. "The question should be "What compels a man to feel a need to violently force himself onto a woman?" - The why is because it is hardwired into our system. I feel that is easy for me to admit as a male. I don't deny my urges, but connected with those urges is not the violent urge to do harm towards women, it is the primal urge to "take" a mate and procreate. It exists and needs to exist for the sake of our species. Without this, our species would most likely NOT be here today. Again, in the 21st century the goal is not to breed these tendencies out of existence but to mediate and inform men of their primal urges and to educate them on how to mediate these urges. If you fear "black men" (not you specifically darkskies but the general "you") because you believe them to have the urge to "take" a woman by force then in all honesty you should fear ALL men (at least heterosexual men, I don't know how this effects homosexual men and it would be nice if we got some insight from that community as there is different brain chemistry at work when compared to the majority of heterosexual males). I could say with all honesty that many men live in a minefield, and navigating ones own urges and transforming them in to acceptable ways to procreate is a very large part of what religions and social systems have been trying to deal with for thousands of years. Again, at the heart of rape is procreation. But just like sexual tendencies and fetishistic tendencies these primal urges get altered by cultural factors and factors of "nurture". How one perceives their urges is part of the issue, however there are those men with other genetic and socioeconomic factors that make it even more difficult for them to mediate their urges. This is by no means an excuse, and I think many confuse explanations with excuses when it conflicts with other rational and philosophical ideas. When a dog bites someone and has a tendency towards violence we don't justify the dogs actions but we do understand the dogs actions and deal with it (usually by putting it down) so it can no longer continue that action. Just because you understand and can explain why something happens does not mean you are justifying it. To make a very crude comparison, human beings have to pass gas right? It's completely natural and understandable. But most humans have control over their sphincter right? So what happens when someone farts in a crowded room? You understand why they farted, but you don't justify the fact that they did not step outside. You yell at them and say, "come on you know better". And if it is someone who can't control their sphincter or an ignorant child do they get excused? No the adult who lacks control over their sphincter is expected to manage their issue without it conflicting with societal norms. The child is reprimanded in hopes that they learn that they are supposed to step out of the room. Sorry, was trying to bring a bit of light heartedness to his conversation. However, I think my comparison is somewhat apt when considering the difference between explanation and justification.
Just so I'm clear, at least you agree that the focus should be on gender versus race, right? On another note, I see what you're saying about being hard-wired, culture and nurture, but you are dead wrong. Rape is about dominance, power, anger, and gratification. Egalitarian posted an example of this when talking about the slave owners and the slave women. Other examples include male-on-male rape in prisons and the military, which obviously shows no motive for procreation served.
Ah yes I absolutely agree that the focus should be on gender and not race. Again, I don't believe "race" is an actual thing, but a mental construct crudely used to group people by skin color, which has no actual real world value. However, I would disagree that I am dead wrong of course. Yes, rape is OFTEN having to do with dominance, power, anger and gratification, but these are "perversions" of the basic instinct in which I am speaking. What I claimed does not contradict what you are saying, but perhaps I did not explain it properly. There are different types of rape yes. I believe there are differences between institutional rape as an example the right of a conquering group to take by force the women of the conquered or the rape of say that thing in Braveheart where the English ruler or whatever had the "right" to devirginize a newly wed Scottish woman. This type of rape is slightly different than other forms of rape as we are talking about in today's society or as you so aptly used the example of prison rape. What I am saying is ALL of these things are emanating from the same biological factors, and then through OTHER genetic factors and OTHER social factors are being perverted in the individuals brain and being played out in all these numerous forms. Does that make more sense? The urge to dominate and the urge to procreate, at least in my brain, are VERY Connected. Part of my personal urge to procreate, is to spread my seed, which is attached to me EGO partially in which I subconsciously want my genes to "dominate" the gene pool. Part of my urge to procreate also has to do with "gratification" and anything having to do with orgasm also has to do with "gratification". I seriously do not believe you would have one without the other. Anger, is slightly different than dominance which is similar to power which are all different to gratification. And it can be said that any or all of these factors are at play in any individual situation of rape. You can not disconnect my urge to procreate with my urge to dominate with my urge for power. As I can not speak for ALL men on this issue, I would think there are many men who feel the same way about themselves. I know through personal experience that many men do feel similarly. But I don't have a poll or something in which I could show you these results. Rape is a complicated matter and there are SO many variables. It is not ONE or just a few things that go in to causing rape, but I think it is also wrong to think the urge to procreate is not related to the emotions you have suggested. For instance, it feels to many men that it is their "right" to procreate. If something, like say modern social standards, are preventing that person from procreating with a woman they want to, that may cause a sense of "anger", that anger can lead to rape, which in turn is gratifying to both the physical state of the individual and the mental state of that individual, because he "took" what he wanted. Male on male rape in prison is the product of these male traits being perverted in the individual and expressed in dominance and power. Further, in a situation with no women (who unfortunately are socially used by men to show power and dominance and boost the ego), men do not have that female option to express power and dominance. Further, power and dominance are a very large part of regular sex. Perhaps you don't know this, but men feel a sense of power and dominance (often) when they are having regular, consensual sex with a woman. Our base urges get "perverted" (and I don't mean to use the word perverted as a necessarily negative term, but a term to describe the altered expression of base tendencies) in many ways by our experiences. That does not make them any less connected to those base urges, it just makes the expression of those base urges far more complicated and includes many variables in the equation. As a man, I often have the feeling that I want to "force" myself sexually on a woman who I am in conflict with, in order to egoistically prove my dominance (either over the conversation or the person) and further more, show my "power" by impregnating said woman , forever connecting her to my egotistical genetics. I think this would be very hard for many women to understand because I absolutely feel these thoughts and these emotions are predominant in the male psyche and I truly don't know to what extent these same emotions rule the female brain. I do know that it is common for a man to want to "dominate" his wife or girlfriend even (and I feel to some extent this feeling is very natural) or to express ones virility and power to the rest of society by using perceived "dominance" over a female (Trophy wives are an excellent example). I hope you see what I am saying now. And I kind of think unless you could experience these feelings, emotions and urges as a man experiences them, they would be very hard to understand and as far as language is concerned, very hard to explain. I would also like to add that I believe the difference between the sexes to be far far greater than the differences between groups of people and ethnicity. Men of all color are far more similar to one another than men are to women, biologically and mentally. This is part of why "black" (only using this term to describe the general idea of a different group even though I don't believe they really are different) men are more accepted by the "white" men in society, than any woman is accepted in to the world of "men". Err, this is also why I think we had an African American president before a woman president and why I think we are more likely to have male Presidents of any possible ethnicity before we might have a woman President. Further, I believe the main factor bringing men of every ethnicity together is that they are NOT women and discussing women and especially their wives. I also think the main thing bringing women of all ethnicity together is that they are NOT men and discussing their "silly" or "stupid" husbands. Oh, and in these senses, yes ALL men are "perverts". If you are a man and you want to deny this, I would call you a liar.
I don't mean to say that genes play no role in behavior. They most certainly do. But when we are talking about genetic differences between populations I don't believe that the existence of genetic variation indicates the existence of genetic differences in complex social behavior. So there are other more likely explanations for the given statistics cited by Hairball than genetic factors. Blacks being more disproportionately prone to rape is not caused by some evolutionary difference between Blacks and other so-called racial groups. That idea is what my source refuted. The statistics can be explained solely by environmental differences. There is no scientific basis for assuming a genetic factor is at play here. Here is an email conversation I had with Joseph Graves regarding the so-called "Warrior Gene" and racial differences: Now I would like to comment on the crime of rape itself. I think it is an absolutely heinous crime which occurs far too often and regard rapists as scum who should be executed for their crime. But I think the crime of rape is misunderstood. It is not simply an act of lust by men with poor impulse control. Rape is very often premeditated and motivated by the desire to dominate and humiliate the victim. Rapists "get off" on hurting their victim and forcing themselves on them. They know what they are doing and they do it to intentionally cause physical and psychological harm. The mentality is not "I want to have sex with you and I'm not taking no for an answer" it's "I want to hurt you in a horrible way and use forced sex as my weapon." The act of rape can be triggered by several variables including a woman dressing sexy, the man being drunk, or the woman turning down sex and the man feeling rejected but there's more too it than the man being naturally more aggressive than average and not being able to control himself. The nature of rape itself refutes the idea that different races commit rape at different rates because of racial differences. The genetic explanation is entirely based on the assumption that differences in aggression level influences a man's tendency to commit rape, when in fact it is the morality of the man that determines his tendency to commit rape. Your morality is effected by psychological factors such as how your were raised and the societal influences around you as well as your personal choices. The rapist more often than not was raised in a bad environment that psychologically effected him leading to his horrendous behavior. I'm not at all making excuses for rapists just explaining how their behavior is directly impacted by their environment. There is no "rape gene" or genes. Rape is a crime committed by men with low morals who most often have been raised in a bad environment and act out in different ways including raping women (and sometimes other men).
I think you are not understanding what I am saying. If did understand my comments, you would not suggest that I said there was any differences between populations, as I went pretty far to describe how I DONT believe there are differences between people with different color skin and how I don't believe that "race" even exists or should be used in the context of this conversation. I do believe in differences in GENETIC CLUSTERS though, and this is what I am speaking about. I think the issue is far more related to the differences in the sexes, meaning ALL men are more similar to one another than they are to women. ALL men carry biological traits that may lend themselves towards rape, but it is highly likely that SOME genetic clusters have a higher frequency of biological reasons that eventually lead to rape. In fact I feel like you are arguing against my argument with in large part, the argument I made....... Again, "black" men should be no more genetically predisposed to rape than "white" men because "black" is NOT a genetic description, it is a crude and no longer viable social description. The fact however that you are stilling thinking of genetic differences in terms of "race" means to me that you will not get very far in to gleaming insight in to the overall picture. You can NOT possibly do so until you begin to see "race" as a made up thing with no intrinsic value and no connection to actual, scientific genetics. Whether these genetic factors are the difference between a man or a woman or the difference between one genetic cluster and another is a different matter. But there are obvious differences based on genetic clusters, again NOT based on this made up thing called "race". Yes there are many social factors that go in to the issue of rape as you described. But there are many biological factors and genetic clusters that are part of it also, a big one being the biological factor of being a MALE. It can easily be deduced then that depending on the social constructs of ones community, dominance and power will be expressed in different forms. But since all MEN are so biologically similar, this is an issue men of all ethnicity must deal with. Again the difference between men of all ethnicity is far far less genetically than the difference between men and women. Further, I would argue that sex is most often about dominance and in my opinion sex is ALWAYS a weapon. But to dominate and to cause pain are not always the same thing. There is absolutely NOTHING having to do with behavior of the human animal that has ONLY to do with social factors and there is NOTHING having to do with the behavior of the human animal that is ONLY based on genetic factors. All human action is based on a combination of the two and to think otherwise in my opinion is naive. Also you are generalizing Rape far too narrowly. All rape is not what you say and while it MAY be premeditated and used to cause harm, it is not ALWAYS and thus the issue of rape is no where near as simplistic as you have actually made it out to be. Sorry one more thing. OF COURSE human selection has been no where near that of dog breeding. No one said it was. But it can be seen in certain communities like the Orthadox Jewish community (Ashkenazi Jewish cluster is probably the MOST researched genetic cluster in the world and has shown the effect of breeding standards) or the European Royal community that insular breeding hastens certain traits and narrows the genetic pool. This is PROVEN to lead to all sorts of different outcomes from appearance to brain chemistry to diseases that are predominant in these genetic clusters.
I also have a question that might give some insight into the discussion but that I really don't know the answer to. Do homosexual men rape women? If so why? If not why? If rape was ONLY down to dominance, power and violence as some suggest, then wouldn't there be a portion of the homosexual male community that was raping both men and women? Or must there be some level of attraction or sexual allure involved? And if so, how is it only about dominance, power and violence? I will add though that the disproportionate number of African American males raping women of European descent probably does have more to do with social constructs than genetics. I mean the specific act of raping a female of European descent and NOT the act of the rape itself. Raping a female of European descent is directing anger towards a person or group one sees as responsible for the individuals circumstances. But I think most or at least many men WANT to dominate females they feel in conflict with or that they dislike for whatever reason.
That's sociopathic. I've never wanted to rape anyone. So no, it's not "built into the foundation of the male human brain". You're just trying to make more excuses for rapist scumbags.
Firstly, I never said I wanted to rape anyone either. Second, I did say I often want to "take" a woman. Yes, sexual aggression is hardwired, perhaps not "rape" as you define it. It's not sociopathic at all. Your fear of such a statement exposes you for having ulterior motives. You are trying to make claims that support your hypothesis instead of looking at the different aspects of this discussion and coming to a reasonable conclusion. Or perhaps you are one of the neutered males of our modern society? The ones that suppress their instincts and urges and fear the "wild" man archetype and fear the wild man within yourself and further more fear African Americans because you have been trained to believe they represent the aggressive primal man, which obviously is purely a stereotype without validity. For you to deny aggression is built in to your nature as a male, to deny part of what it is to be a male of our species is a delusion to the utmost degree. To deny your urge to dominate and deny an urge for power? Who are you trying to impress? Who are you trying to prove your fake morality to? I am not a proponent of rape, and while we are discussing rape, I am stating that rape is a mostly male issue for very specific reasons. He who denies himself loses his humanity. You are trying to make excuses to justify your bigotry. You don't even seem to understand your own sex let alone the complexities of this issue. No offense, but YOU seem like the sociopath, you seem like the monster here.
BS. You keep making excuses for rape. You also talk about subjects that an adult would talk about, but only have the spelling and grammar skills of an elementary school child. That is typical of the group mentioned in the OP.
Hysterical. Do you actually think I would waste my time spellchecking and correcting errors on a forum? I am a 33 year old male of European descent with 2 college degrees and an IQ in the upper 99%. Now, I am certainly not the most educated man on earth nor am I at all the smartest, but you sir are a fool. And if you can not understand what I have written, which obviously you don't, I would say you are the one with the learning disability. How many times have I made it a point to state I am not excusing the act at all? How many ways can I possibly say that so that a simpleton would understand it? Is the fact that I don't condemn a group of people for the errors of a few an excuse? Is the fact that I believe there are inherent reasons men have a problem with rape an excuse? Is it wrong of me to attempt to understand what "rape" is on an intimate level without actually committing the act? I understand your level of intellect based on these comments alone. To assume I am part of a group because of my grammar and spelling? I know I've made spelling errors and probably some grammar errors, which are you referring to exactly? Further more, if you think spelling or grammar have ANYTHING to do with intelligence, knowledge or deciphering someones ethnicity, you are even lower on the intelligence scale than I now presume. I have not ONCE excused rape. You can't tell the difference between an excuse and an explanation what kind of frontal lobe do you have? I think we are discussing concepts FAR above your pay grade and I think you only started this thread to take a crack at African Americans. I don't believe you know the first thing about why rape occurs and I don't believe you have the first clue about human nature, ethnicity, minorities or even your own gender. You are proving yourself to be a disgrace. Are you religious? You sound religious. You also sound socially indoctrinated into the fantastic world of poor education. Have you ever even spoken with an African American? Have you ever spoken to a non Christian, non "white" individual for more than 2 minutes or buying groceries? You are possibly the most ignorant person I have been unfortunate enough to waste my time on this week and trust me, that is saying a lot if you knew where I lived. Again though, what grammar are you speaking of? I actually take MANY literary liberties for the sake of style and conversational tone, very much on purpose. Actually I thrive in academics, specifically in writing, philosophy and history. I LOVE run-on sentences and commas. I also love to argue with fools it seems. Unfortunately for me, or fortunately perhaps, I am a product of the age of spell-check and can be quite lazy!
I think that 'hard wiring' is very very rusty. It is not a coincidence that human females have almost uniquely as mammals,evolved into sexual being with complex orgasms. Think about how that changes your whole concept of how human sexuality and procreation have developed and changed from a violent 'taking', to a mutual seduction and chemical/biological reward system that encourages a relationship of trust and cooperation. It certainly must predate any impact of civilization or morality. I doubt much sex between homo sapiens as a percentage was based on rape or force.
I don't believe I've misinterpreted anything you said I was simply speaking to the larger issue in this discussion which is that complex social behavior is not mediated by genes and there is no scientific basis to presume that Blacks or any other groups are more prone to commit rape because of some genetic trait. There is obviously a sexual component to rape. I believe that statistically homosexual men are more likely to rape other men. Physical attraction and lust are part of the equation but so is the desire to dominate and humiliate the victim. I believe that the reason that African-American males disproportionately rape European-American females is not because they are out to get White women for societal grievances but simply because there are more White women available to victimize. We see less White male on Black female rape today because White men usually do not live in close proximity to Black women and there are less Black women in America to victimize. White male rapists mostly rape White women. Black male rapists mostly rape Black women but occasionally rape White women who they live in close proximity to. Now some Black men might be out to get White women for racist reasons but there's no basis to say all or most do.
I think it is extremely rusty. On top of which has to go through a spectrum of other signals and through a filter of both our genetic makeup and environmental experiences. Yes, this would be initially coming from a place that predates our species, and our species evolved further on top of this portion of the brain as have other animals. However, I think you are wrong about the last part. Human history is has a rather large history of rape as far as I know. I would say to this, I understand what you are saying about the female hormone however I don't know how connected that actually is, in an evolutionary sense to "mutual seduction" or relationships based on "trust and cooperation" but I do agree that it is connected to the chemical/biological reward system. I don't know what percentage of sex was based on rape or force but I do think your might be surprised if you believe it was low. I will not throw out an arbitrary statistic here, but I would have to think a lot of sex in homo sapien history is based on force at least, and still a fair amount probably on rape. To distinguish the two can be difficult. I really don't know the direct correlation to the traits you are speaking about and evolution but I do know that individual homosapiens do develop differently and some individuals are more prone to getting directions from the primal part of their brain than others. Also, if females did indeed develop for the reasons you stated (not in the way you stated which is fully proven), I am not sure how that effected the development of the male gender. I am not so inclined to believe that we (men) have evolved based on mutual seduction or relationships of trust and cooperation. If we truly had I don't know if we would still be so inclined towards rape and aggression. I must always question how far we have actually come regarding evolution and what traits and ideas can actually be attributed to evolution as opposed to social construction. As far as the effect of mutual seduction and trust and cooperation I am not as certain as you seem to be. But I have not read anything regarding that specifically if you have some reference. Not that I require one, but I guess I don't see things in such positive terms.
And my IQ is in the upper 1%. Ad hominem BS. I don't believe you. You excused it several times. I'm an athiest. Affirmative.
I know that is a lot of debate about how and why women developed to have orgasms, but it is a clinically measurable physiological experience requiring some real hard wiring of its own, and I strongly suspect that suggests an evolutionary trek away from violence and rape as the primary method of reproduction. Can't prove it and I have no links to provide. Just a laypersons inexpert attempt at reason in the face of a biological novelty of humans. We are both designed to like sex, and like it virtually any time, and have a chemically induced reward for staying with partners that learn how to please us. Considering women have fewer experiences with successful climax that take longer and are relatively rare compared to the male climax, the rape experience just does not compute with its development.
